Patriots cut OL Caleb Benenoch

[TomPatriot]

The seventh round pick in 2017 just won DPOW and has been arguably the most consistent and important LB on the team last year and so far this year...KVN.

Van Noy? He was a 2nd round pick of the Lions in 2014.

 

[SBLIII]

Van Noy? He was a 2nd round pick of the Lions in 2014.

right. 50-yard-line just said the draft capital we gave up = van Noy's draft status

lol

 

[50-yard-line]

Van Noy? He was a 2nd round pick of the Lions in 2014.

And the Patriots' 7th-round pick in 2017.

Shelton was the Browns' 1st-rounder in 2014, then the Pats' 3rd-rounder (swapped for a 5th from the Browns) last year.

Jason McCourty was the Patriots' 6th-rounder last year.

Michael Bennett is their 7th rounder next year.

Josh Gordon was their 5th-rounder last year.

 

[Oswlek]

right. 50-yard-line just said the draft capital we gave up = van Noy's draft status

lol

Why shouldn't he be considered?

 

[captain stone]

They probably feel Izzo has more upside, can play STs and may not have made it through to the PS (not sure if he has eligibility or not).

I may be reaching here, but I have a sneaking suspicion that somehow, some way, Ryan Izzo might possibly clear waivers.

 

[TomPatriot]

And the Patriots' 7th-round pick in 2017.

Shelton was the Browns' 1st-rounder in 2014, then the Pats' 3rd-rounder (swapped for a 5th from the Browns) last year.

Jason McCourty was the Patriots' 6th-rounder last year.

Michael Bennett is their 7th rounder next year.

Josh Gordon was their 5th-rounder last year.

Oh, I see your point. Got it.

 

[50-yard-line]

Oh, I see your point. Got it.

BB sees that rookies rarely contribute (when the Pats played the Seahawks in the SB, there was something like ONE rookie in the game).

He also knows that an average 5th-yeara player is way ahead of a typical 2nd-year player, even if that second year guy has more "upside."

He also knows that a really good draft pick won't fit his middle-class team-building philosophy when he comes off his rookie deal.

He also know that the NFL is always "win now!" Injuries, busts, bad luck, etc., are too common to plan far ahead. How many Superbowls did the Colts win with can't-miss Andrew Luck?

He's the guy in World of Warcraft who buys all the second tier items, which are only marginally worse than the overpriced 1st tier.

Beside, if the number of UDFA and low round picks on the Pats haven't shown us what a crapshoot the draft is, then I don't know what will. Once you get below the top-10/top-15, you're putting your finger up to the wind (and even those guys bust initially). Shelton is finally performing well after his rookie deal is over. he was drafted what, 12th?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, well done. But there is an alternate narrative. BB prefers veterans and would rather not play rookies, younger players for whatever reason (I don’t think BB wanted to draft anyone in 2017). So he gets scrap heap vets, accomplished vets and then gets a little from the draft and a little from UDFAs, where the Pats excel.

To get a more accurate read on how good his drafts have been I think we’d have to look at who they drafted and whether those players are playing a significant role on an NFL team (Tavon Wilson, Duke Dawson, Joe Halapio, Jacoby Brissett, Cameron Fleming, Malcolm Brown and the list goes on). Those players were beaten out by veterans or UDFAs. So that must be taken into account and is a big reason why the Pats don’t seem to draft that well.

Nothing in BB's history suggests that he wouild rather not play rookies or younger players. And, no, we don't have to look at whether drafted players are on other teams. It doesn't matter if some other team tries using a Patriots player. Jordan Richards started a lot of games for Atlanta last year. That doesn't mean he was a good second round pick for the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

He has a little point, but he left out key facts that have already pointed out. For example, 3 of those years the Pats didn't draft in the first round, Jimmy G etc... When a point is strong, one doesn't have to leave out key details.

There's a difference between people showing that someone does not have a strong point, and people whining because an obviously strong point makes their position look bad.

In this case, the latter obviously applies. The excuse making by the "But picks!" crowd is embarrassing as all hell. You don't see those same people saying "But BB has had extra picks because of trades", do you?

 

[TomPatriot]

Nothing in BB's history suggests that he wouild rather not play rookies or younger players. And, no, we don't have to look at whether drafted players are on other teams. It doesn't matter if some other team tries using a Patriots player. Jordan Richards started a lot of games for Atlanta last year. That doesn't mean he was a good second round pick for the Patriots.

The average age of the team makes it one of the oldest teams in the NFL. And that's true even if you subtract 42 year old Tom Brady.

It does matter that the Patriots draft choices wind up starting on other teams. It means they are good enough to start in the NFL but the Patriots found someone better to take that spot on this team, like J.C. Jackson, Jonathan Jones and Adam Butler.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

2009-2013 yielded FOUR pro bowlers or impact starters who are STILL on the team. Chung, McCourty, Hightower and Collins.

How many pro bowlers or better yet impact starters 2015- present still on the team? maybe Shaq Mason. Any others?

Who from 2015-present drafts compares to those 4 guys?

 

[OldEngland]

When we look at drafting success for a particular team, I think it is fairer to look at what it would look at in a non FA era.
This is a list of ACTIVE players in the NFL (ignoring the 2019 draft which is too recent) drafted by, UDFA signings, or traded for by New England.

I make a 53 man roster, of which 47 were drafted (or UDFA signings) by New England (Disclamer - I'm sure there are mistakes in this)

OFFENSE
WR: Edelman, Dorsett, Gordon (Berrios)
RB: Michel, White
TE: Watson, Smith (Izzo)
QB: Brady (Grappolo, Brissett)
OL: Wynn/Solder, Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon
(Karras, Larsen, Fleming, McDermott, Halapio)

Active O from draft resources = 23
21 drafted by Pats

DEFENSE

Ch.Jones, Shelton, Bennett, Flowers (Wise, Butler, Rivers, Brown)
Hightower, Collins, Van Noy, Bentley (Roberts)
McCourty, Chung, Harmon (Wilson, Richards)
Ryan, J.Jones, Jackson, McCourty (Cy.Jones, Crossen, Dawson)

Active D from draft resources = 25
21 drafted by Pats

SPECIAL TEAMS
Gost, Ebner, Bolden, Slater, Cardona

Active ST from draft resources = 5 all drafted by NE

RETIRED/NOT ACTIVE (drafted with higher pick since 2009 that I consider had successful NFL career). Not counted in figures above
- Gronk, Vereen, Vollmer, Spikes, Stork, Killer, Allen

Observations
- Looks a pretty mean roster to me.
- Multiple excellent drafted RBs, OL, S, TE, STs this decade
- Pretty good QB, DE, LB
- Pretty bad whiffs at CB, WR, DT this decade​

 

[Sciz]

Claimed off waivers by the Panthers, who opened up a roster spot by putting Chris Hogan on IR.

 

[Oswlek]

2009-2013 yielded FOUR pro bowlers or impact starters who are STILL on the team. Chung, McCourty, Hightower and Collins.

How many pro bowlers or better yet impact starters 2015- present still on the team? maybe Shaq Mason. Any others?

Who from 2015-present drafts compares to those 4 guys?

Why does "still on the team" matter? Particularly since two of the players mentioned had to leave to get their second contract?

Your "analysis" overlooks that two of the four players mentioned were first rounders and the lowest selection, Collins @52, was higher than NE's first pick in two drafts after 2015. I'm also puzzled as to why guys from 2018/2019 are supposed to have emerged to the extent of McCourty or HT. That seems a remarkably naive ask.

As I said before, if you actually review the drafts with a little more depth, looking at when each guy was selected, you'll see that both sets are more similar than you think. See for yourself.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[patfanken]

I still think THIS year's draft is a home run for the Pats.

Harry, has been thought of by most as a worthy first round pick. Nothing we saw in preseason made us feel differently. He's hurt. That doesn't make it a bad pick.

JWilliams - He'd be starting for half the teams in the league. Again not his fault the #4 CB is JC Jackson. Nice to have him there practicing every day in case of an injury.

Winovich - 3 sacks 4 games in VERY limited activity. Just saw him as 8th best rookie on a ESPN list. He'd be starting on a bad team.

DHarris - Another guy who would be getting a LOT of snaps if he weren't on a team that had Sony, Rex, and James ahead of him.

Cajuste - Thought to be a top OT pick before injury. We'll be happy we drafted him next season.

Frodholte - Should be a solid back up next season. Could be a starter

Stidham - Flashed in preseason. We'll see. I trust BB with QB's. Name another team that, in a league desperate for QB talent drafted 2 solid starting QB's in the last 6 years

Cowart - Mark my words, this is a kid who will be a good pro. Unfortunately stuck behind his betters, but when he got his snaps he flashed in both games.

Bailey - need I say more

Webster. Starting for Miami, though that is damning with faint praise.

I don't know about you, but to me that is one DAMNED good draft class, especially where we draft every year.

BTW- I know I complain about not having a TE like Knox from this draft, but I'd be hard pressed to think who I'd knock off from the 4 picks we took in rounds 3 and 4. With 20-20 hindsight, Frodholte MAYBE

Edit - And I forgot the TWO UDFA's we got that made the team.

 

[SBLIII]

I still think THIS year's draft is a home run for the Pats.

Harry, has been thought of by most as a worthy first round pick. Nothing we saw in preseason made us feel differently. He's hurt. That doesn't make it a bad pick.

JWilliams - He'd be starting for half the teams in the league. Again not his fault the #4 CB is JC Jackson. Nice to have him there practicing every day in case of an injury.

Winovich - 3 sacks 4 games in VERY limited activity. Just saw him as 8th best rookie on a ESPN list. He'd be starting on a bad team.

DHarris - Another guy who would be getting a LOT of snaps if he weren't on a team that had Sony, Rex, and James ahead of him.

Cajuste - Thought to be a top OT pick before injury. We'll be happy we drafted him next season.

Frodholte - Should be a solid back up next season. Could be a starter

Stidham - Flashed in preseason. We'll see. I trust BB with QB's. Name another team that, in a league desperate for QB talent drafted 2 solid starting QB's in the last 6 years

Cowart - Mark my words, this is a kid who will be a good pro. Unfortunately stuck behind his betters, but when he got his snaps he flashed in both games.

Bailey - need I say more

Webster. Starting for Miami, though that is damning with faint praise.

I don't know about you, but to me that is one DAMNED good draft class, especially where we draft every year.

BTW- I know I complain about not having a TE like Knox from this draft, but I'd be hard pressed to think who I'd knock off from the 4 picks we took in rounds 3 and 4. With 20-20 hindsight, Frodholte MAYBE

Edit - And I forgot the TWO UDFA's we got that made the team.

AGREED. The 2018 and 2019 drafts are still very much tbd but I think the 2019 draft is already showing some flashes and it should only get as the season goes on.

 

[luuked]

2009-2013 yielded FOUR pro bowlers or impact starters who are STILL on the team. Chung, McCourty, Hightower and Collins.

How many pro bowlers or better yet impact starters 2015- present still on the team? maybe Shaq Mason. Any others?

Who from 2015-present drafts compares to those 4 guys?

Love how you expanded the range from your initial bad take because you realised it would not cover enough players.

 

[luuked]

right. 50-yard-line just said the draft capital we gave up = van Noy's draft status

lol

And what exactly is wrong with that ?

We gave a draft pick, we received a player.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Love how you expanded the range from your initial bad take because you realised it would not cover enough players.

Come on. Lets face it. Besides BB and Brady, we are as good as we are because we drafted 4-5 star players 2009-2013 who are in the middle of their primes and we are great in free agency. The drafts 2015-present ...we don't have any high impact players besides maybe an O lineman, and as BB and Brady retire, and those 4-5 begin to age...we could be devoid of talent in 2-3 years. We have swung and missed a lot with high draft picks the past 4 years

Don't worry though, right now we are great! enjoy!

 

[SBLIII]

Come on. Lets face it. Besides BB and Brady, we are as good as we are because we drafted 4-5 star players 2009-2013 who are in the middle of their primes. The drafts 2015-present ...we don't have any high impact players besides maybe an O lineman, and as BB and Brady retire, and those 4-5 begin to age...we could be devoid of talent in 2-3 years.

Don't worry though, right now we are great! enjoy!

not the worst tbh. We will pick higher and can get a new QB and a couple high impact players to restock the talent.