Player Signing Patriots Claim 4 on Waivers

[mgteich]

I’ll expand a little.
1) The DT position is a nightmare. The front 7 is made up of role players who have succeeded through game plannning and coaching making the sum greater than the parts. Subtracting 2 of the 3 interior DL from a D whose most important stat was #1 in ypc destroys that dynamic. A game plan role player D that can’t stop the run is doomed. And the mastermind of it all is gone. When have you ever seen any other defense mix and match role players and game plan and be as good as ours has? No other coach i am aware of has been good in that. And we have no depth.

2) it’s not 35 it’s 50. Why would they do it next year if they wouldn’t this year? What’s going to change? And if spending to the cap was a franchise philosophy, they could have brought in half of the players now, the other half next year, had a better year to grow from and have those guys be year 2 in the system. The only reason I can fathom to not do it is not wanting to spend the money.

3) We should have signed all the players we could to improve the team. That’s the gold standard of putting together a team. There are numerous players on our team that had upgrades available well within our budget and we chose not to upgrade. Sundays are going to be painful. The run d looks like it will be a problem. We have no one to rush the passer. Who is the 3rd corner? I don’t think we have one with 500 downs of experience. Who is the 3rd safety? We typically use 3 safeties half the time.
On offense the OL could be abysmal, the QB is bad, and he is throwing to a WR unit that has 6 guys with a combined career total of 245 receptions.

It feels like we didn’t try.

1) I agree. I would only note that we didn't know that we were losing Barmore when we made the decisions. However, the need to replace Guy and the need for better depth was already obvious.

2) With respect, you don't understand the mechanisms of the cap very well. We are already under $40M and will go lower as we account for more Practice Squad players, for additions during the season because of injuries, and any incentives that count toward this year's cap (game incentives are one, I think). We even might execute a minor trade for a LB or DT that would further reduce the total a bit. I think that this is possible since we have now lost Barmore and Judon.

I was a bit generous in expecting $35M to be left to carry forward.

3) Yes, we should have signed a better DT and LB. Of course, losing Barmore, and then Judon and Takitaki made the front seven needs that much more obvious.

 

[Ring 6]

1) I agree. I would only note that we didn't know that we were losing Barmore when we made the decisions. However, the need to replace Guy and the need for better depth was already obvious.

2) With respect, you don't understand the mechanisms of the cap very well. We are already under $40M and will go lower as we account for more Practice Squad players, for additions during the season because of injuries, and any incentives that count toward this year's cap (game incentives are one, I think). We even might execute a minor trade for a LB or DT that would further reduce the total a bit. I think that this is possible since we have now lost Barmore and Judon.

I was a bit generous in expecting $35M to be left to carry forward.

3) Yes, we should have signed a better DT and LB. Of course, losing Barmore, and then Judon and Takitaki made the front seven needs that much more obvious.

Right. If we didn’t lose Barmore we were light, now we are missing 2.
We are under by 50,000,000 not 40,000,000. The other items won’t take up nearly what you are projecting.

 

[mgteich]

Right. If we didn’t lose Barmore we were light, now we are missing 2.
We are under by 50,000,000 not 40,000,000. The other items won’t take up nearly what you are projecting.

I checked overthecap and patscap in the last hour.

 

[Ring 6]

I checked overthecap and patscap in the last hour.

I stand corrected, last I checked was 50 and today it’s 40.
But I think some of the 15 mill in IR hits will also go away when we pay them a settlement.

 

[Triumph]

Teams are required to spend 95% of cap over a four year period.
We are missing at least two key pieces, one of whom (LT) you can only realistically obtain in the draft. The assumption is we will be picking in the top ten again next year, and we should be able to get one then (although apparently next year isn't a great one for tackles). Right now, top free agents have no interest in playing here - that might well change next year or the year after.
The appropriate and realistic target is getting to the playoffs next year, and spending more on free agents this year isn't going to make that more likely.

This season is like BBs 2000 season.

Evaluate who fits in the future and determine where the biggest needs are. Maybe the Pats do need to sign a big money WR FA? Maye will have a season accrued and be better acclimated to the NFL game.

 

[Triumph]

I stand corrected, last I checked was 50 and today it’s 40.
But I think some of the 15 mill in IR hits will also go away when we pay them a settlement.

Kraft withdrew 10 Mill for a new Yacht.

Its called "Happy Ending"

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I would have liked another DT, but here's the list of guys this offseason:

Christian Wilkins - 4 years, $110M
Leonard Williams - 3 years, $64.5M
Arik Armstead - 3 years, $43.5M
Grover Stewart - 3 years, $39M
Sheldon Rankins - 2 years, $24.5M
DJ Reader - 2 years, $22M
Justin Jones - 3 years, $31.2M
A'Shawn Robinson - 3 years, $22.5M

Honestly, Wilkins and Williams are the only players I consider an upgrade over Godchaux. Neither of them made a pro bowl recently (Williams made one 8 years ago). I can understand not spending $20M plus per year for either of them. Beyond them, I'm ok not paying that much for a 3rd DT. I like Eukale as a backup. Pharms showed some stuff last year. Hill and Roberts each have some talent they've put on tape. We kick guys like Wise/White inside a lot. I'm ok with their approach at that spot of giving that group of young guys a chance to compete for backup DL spots vs. spending big money on it.

I obviously want the money spent at some point. If they keep sitting on it in perpetuity will obviously be a bad outcome. But just evaluating things as they happen I'm ok with their approach at most positions. I'd like to have seen them bite the bullet and "overpay" Jonah Williams just so there's some semblance of NFL caliber OT play on the roster. That's really my only specific gripe. Otherwise, I'm ok with their approach of rolling the cap space over and going after more big ticket items with it in the future like they tried to do with Ridley/Aiyuk. Again, that can't be a permanent approach but I'm ok with it for now.

 

[Triumph]

I remember when I had season tickets in Billy Sullivan's concrete and aluminum palace, and the empty seats often outnumbered the
populated seats. As I look back, it's been a phenomenal ride, far beyond what I could have ever imagined. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the team as I have for 65 years. Let the bandwagoners go, find the latest and greatest to root for. GO PATS!!

Its just the way sports is.

The Chiefs went decades not winning a playoff game. And, today they have a great shot at being the only NFL to win 3 Lombardis in succession.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

So we are supposed to come to a patriots football message board and not talk about the state of the team?

You can, as long as you say things he likes.

 

[signbabybrady]

You can, as long as you say things he likes.

2 way street. I'm also allowed to come to a Patriots message board and call out things people say that I don't like.

 

[Ring 6]

I would have liked another DT, but here's the list of guys this offseason:

Christian Wilkins - 4 years, $110M
Leonard Williams - 3 years, $64.5M
Arik Armstead - 3 years, $43.5M
Grover Stewart - 3 years, $39M
Sheldon Rankins - 2 years, $24.5M
DJ Reader - 2 years, $22M
Justin Jones - 3 years, $31.2M
A'Shawn Robinson - 3 years, $22.5M

Honestly, Wilkins and Williams are the only players I consider an upgrade over Godchaux. Neither of them made a pro bowl recently (Williams made one 8 years ago). I can understand not spending $20M plus per year for either of them. Beyond them, I'm ok not paying that much for a 3rd DT. I like Eukale as a backup. Pharms showed some stuff last year. Hill and Roberts each have some talent they've put on tape. We kick guys like Wise/White inside a lot. I'm ok with their approach at that spot of giving that group of young guys a chance to compete for backup DL spots vs. spending big money on it.

I obviously want the money spent at some point. If they keep sitting on it in perpetuity will obviously be a bad outcome. But just evaluating things as they happen I'm ok with their approach at most positions. I'd like to have seen them bite the bullet and "overpay" Jonah Williams just so there's some semblance of NFL caliber OT play on the roster. That's really my only specific gripe. Otherwise, I'm ok with their approach of rolling the cap space over and going after more big ticket items with it in the future like they tried to do with Ridley/Aiyuk. Again, that can't be a permanent approach but I'm ok with it for now.

We wouldn’t be upgrading Godchaux we would be replacing Barmore and Guy.
That doesn’t need to be super expensive players.

Ekuale is only a situational player, as a 3rd down rusher.
What did Pharms show? He is a borderline practice squad/inactive/ last man off the bench guy. Hill and Roberts lol.

You do realize that today either ekuale or pharms replaced Barmore and the other replaces guy right, so they aren’t competing for back up spots they are starters.

We needed to get 2 guys. First a space eater to play inside in run downs and take Guys 500-600 snaps and 2 a backup/complement to Wise.
Then we have 3 DT types and 2 DE types to rotate. We would have been prepared when Barmore went down.
Now White was pretty much that second guy last year, but now he need to play edge so we really are down 3 IOL.
They dint have to be world beaters, but they have to be able to stop the run and no one we have beyond Godchaux is even near average in that.

A smarter approach to what they did would have been to sign mid level guys instead of bottom of the barrel guys.
Osborne, Gibson,Hooper, Takitaki, Hawkins, Chunks, Brissett, leveret, were cheap contracts for JAGS at best.
Had they spent real money at those positions they would have improved both sides of the ball.

 

[Ring 6]

2 way street. I'm also allowed to come to a Patriots message board and call out things people say that I don't like.

No one is telling you they don’t like your opinion so you should not give it.

 

[dex13]

Honestly, it's a bit disappointing they did four on the line more. I think the 2nd pick was always a WR. Rumors they tried to move into the Bilks pick but the speculation was that it was for Legette. Mayo said they tried to move back in the 2nd but I'm guessing it was that they thought they move back and still get Polk. Hence they we drafted him kinda early talk. Maybe they though some of the OTs who went in 2nd would last to the third but it seems like the plan was always QB, WR, OT in that order. More like they prioritized by position or they thought the OT class was just so deep they could wait...but OTs were a high priority for everyone else.

Also maybe they wanted a specific type of tackle that they didn't see. Everyone the board says that Onwenu is not the right type OT for zone blocking and the two waiver signs are both athletic OTs so it could be just trying to find the right players. Would rather they design the line scheme based on the players vs forcing players into a scheme that might not fit but time will tell.

 

[dex13]

I’ll expand a little.
1) The DT position is a nightmare. The front 7 is made up of role players who have succeeded through game plannning and coaching making the sum greater than the parts. Subtracting 2 of the 3 interior DL from a D whose most important stat was #1 in ypc destroys that dynamic. A game plan role player D that can’t stop the run is doomed. And the mastermind of it all is gone. When have you ever seen any other defense mix and match role players and game plan and be as good as ours has? No other coach i am aware of has been good in that. And we have no depth.

2) it’s not 35 it’s 50. Why would they do it next year if they wouldn’t this year? What’s going to change? And if spending to the cap was a franchise philosophy, they could have brought in half of the players now, the other half next year, had a better year to grow from and have those guys be year 2 in the system. The only reason I can fathom to not do it is not wanting to spend the money.

3) We should have signed all the players we could to improve the team. That’s the gold standard of putting together a team. There are numerous players on our team that had upgrades available well within our budget and we chose not to upgrade. Sundays are going to be painful. The run d looks like it will be a problem. We have no one to rush the passer. Who is the 3rd corner? I don’t think we have one with 500 downs of experience. Who is the 3rd safety? We typically use 3 safeties half the time.
On offense the OL could be abysmal, the QB is bad, and he is throwing to a WR unit that has 6 guys with a combined career total of 245 receptions.

It feels like we didn’t try.

Don't know if I would call DT a nightmare but the loss of Baremore does hurt big time. The mistake was that after they loss Baremore, a Judon resign should of been higher priority. With Baremore, lossing Judon wouldn't hurt so bad.

Concerning money, feels like they were confident (over confident) that they could buy a top WR so they kept the cap free. Epic failure and now there is nothing worth spending significant money all at the start of a multi year rebuild. If anything, I would want them to buy the best OT or any other OL on a one year contract so the QBs survive the year.

 

[Ring 6]

Don't know if I would call DT a nightmare but the loss of Baremore does hurt big time. The mistake was that after they loss Baremore, a Judon resign should of been higher priority. With Baremore, lossing Judon wouldn't hurt so bad.

Concerning money, feels like they were confident (over confident) that they could buy a top WR so they kept the cap free. Epic failure and now there is nothing worth spending significant money all at the start of a multi year rebuild. If anything, I would want them to buy the best OT or any other OL on a one year contract so the QBs survive the year.

We have 1 legitimate DT/34 DE (300lb dude) and we use 2 or 3 on almost every 1st and second down.
Barmore and Guy who were instrumental in us being #1 in ypc allowed are being replaced by Friends U, arena league, usfl 27 year old with 90 career snaps Pharms and Ekuale who played 53 snaps last year and had a career total of 921 snaps in 5 years in the league.
How is that NOT a disaster?

Ridley has a 10 mill first year hit. They didn’t need to set aside 40 mill.

 

[mgteich]

I would have liked another DT, but here's the list of guys this offseason:

Christian Wilkins - 4 years, $110M
Leonard Williams - 3 years, $64.5M
Arik Armstead - 3 years, $43.5M
Grover Stewart - 3 years, $39M
Sheldon Rankins - 2 years, $24.5M
DJ Reader - 2 years, $22M
Justin Jones - 3 years, $31.2M
A'Shawn Robinson - 3 years, $22.5M

Honestly, Wilkins and Williams are the only players I consider an upgrade over Godchaux. Neither of them made a pro bowl recently (Williams made one 8 years ago). I can understand not spending $20M plus per year for either of them. Beyond them, I'm ok not paying that much for a 3rd DT. I like Eukale as a backup. Pharms showed some stuff last year. Hill and Roberts each have some talent they've put on tape. We kick guys like Wise/White inside a lot. I'm ok with their approach at that spot of giving that group of young guys a chance to compete for backup DL spots vs. spending big money on it.

I obviously want the money spent at some point. If they keep sitting on it in perpetuity will obviously be a bad outcome. But just evaluating things as they happen I'm ok with their approach at most positions. I'd like to have seen them bite the bullet and "overpay" Jonah Williams just so there's some semblance of NFL caliber OT play on the roster. That's really my only specific gripe. Otherwise, I'm ok with their approach of rolling the cap space over and going after more big ticket items with it in the future like they tried to do with Ridley/Aiyuk. Again, that can't be a permanent approach but I'm ok with it for now.

OK, so our 6-man DL front was so solid that all we should have been looking for is an upgrade to Godchaux?

Nonsense!

We had Godchaux, Barmore, Wise, and White.
==============
We needed 2-3 DT/DE backups. We had Pharms, Ekuale, Roberts and Hill competing for 2-3 spots.

We decided to bring in so some competition, not even trying to upgrade the backups. We brought in Watts This token signing was not good enough to win spots from the backups.
=========
BOTTOM LINE
Were there upgrade available to the backups? How much were we willing to pay for a backup to these three?

What andy and I (agreeing with andy again) have suggested is that we should have been willing to spend more to get a better DE or DT than Watts and Hill? And yes, it was and is worth $10M a year to upgrade the Guy roster spot and have a quality top 5 rotation with Pharms/Ekuale as the one or two backups.

 

[mgteich]

We wouldn’t be upgrading Godchaux we would be replacing Barmore and Guy.

Barmore made his announcement on July 28th or July 29th. By that time, there was little out there.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Well we were tied for the 2nd worst record in the league last season so if the shoe fits…

The reality is it’s gonna be rough for the next couple of years. We can’t fix everything in one off season/draft.

Us spoiled Pats fans are going to have to learn patience and that’ll be difficult, if not impossible, for some of the instant gratification posters we have on this forum.

The beauty of this is that it’s going to make all the fair weathers move on to another team. Hopefully somewhere with a history of extreme suckage a la jete or classic/2017 level incompetence browns with an up and coming qb waiting to fail or a “has been-never was” like AR…

 

[mgteich]

The beauty of this is that it’s going to make all the fair weathers move on to another team. Hopefully somewhere with a history of extreme suckage a la jete or classic/2017 level incompetence browns with an up and coming qb waiting to fail or a “has been-never was” like AR…

We have been waiting since Brady left. Belichick had been gone since January.

Those that you talk about are still here will probably still stay and whine about Mayo and Wolf.

Of course, there are many that just want Mayo and Wolf to do better in their choices.

 

[Ring 6]

Barmore made his announcement on July 28th or July 29th. By that time, there was little out there.

Yes but we had already lost Guy and moved White to edge, so we didn’t fill 2 starter or heavy rotation spots. Making it much more difficult to deal with Barmore.
Instead of DT/DE of Godchaux, Wise, White, Guy to cover 3 positions with whoever behind them we ended up with Godchaux, Wise and no one else to cover 3 positions with whoever behind them and whoever is now a viral starter/rotation player instead of a scrub who rarely plays.

There was already a problem before Barmore went down, and then it became a disaster.