PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

[Huckleberry1]

Hehe. I admit I was a Mac believer, even through a few games this season. I think the game he finally lost me was NO. Dallas was bad but we've had massive stinkers before. He just could not seem to recover from that and it was evident the next few games

I thought it was obvious that he wasn’t the most talented prospect from an athletic standpoint from the start, but neither was Brady. His rookie year was decent, but to overcome his shortcomings he really needed to develop over the next couple of seasons. Belichick really damaged him by putting Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense, so I was willing to give him a pass on year 2, , but he needed to then show real signs of development this season if they were going to pick up his option, because there was no way they would do that if he didn’t show real signs of growth. He didn’t have to carry the team, or get them to a conference Championship, but he did need to play well enough to make them competitive enough to at least challenge for a WC spot, if not get them in the playoffs. A month into the season it was obvious that he wasn’t even as good a player as he had been his rookie season. And instead of the rest of the team rallying around him he lost their faith in him entirely. Whether he can go home, put in a ton of work, and hook on somewhere else as a back up will be up to him to prove, but he’s done in New England. He’s had his opportunities, and failed to capitalize on them, and it’s time to cut him loose, and go back to the drawing board. I would draft a QB with the first pick, and possibly a second one later if they see a prospect others missed still sitting there, and sign a veteran, like Garrapolo if he’s available, and clean out this QB room entirely. I would try to convert both Cunningham and Marcus Jones to full time receivers, and give Thornton another year to see if he can get it. With Douglas that would give them a ton of speed at WR, and they could fix OL in free agency, trades, and the draft.

 

[Rob0729]

You’re seriously giving Mac a pump for one of the most humiliating losses in Patriots history?

First Drive: INTERCEPTED on 1st and 10 at Bills 34

Second Drive: PUNT (3 and out)

Third Drive: PUNT (3 and out)

Fourth Drive: FIELD GOAL (49 yard drive)

Halftime

Fifth Drive: INTERCEPTED on 1st and 10 on Bills 49

Bills lead 33-3

So classic for you to cherry pick the remaining garbage yardage and TDs against a prevent defense trying to preserve their players for the next playoff game and half assing it the rest of the game.

To respect Ian in his last post, I won't sling mud or address any more mud slinging in this thread. And I regret my part in allowing this thread to devolve. I apologize to others for my part of this thread going to crap.

But I will address the actual football aspect of this post and then leave it at that.

Your recount of the first five drives is misleading.

The first (and only) three and out in the first half was a drive where the Pats ran three times. Mac didn't make a single pass on that drive. Hard to blame him for that.

The third drive in the first half was actually five plays, not three. That drive ended because of a sack where Shaq Mason whiffs a block on Star Lotulelei that cost them 8 yards and then a delay of game (that was on Mac) putting them in 3rd and 20 (they got 12 yards on that play). Even without the delay of game, it would have been 3rd and 15 and 3rd and 15s are tough to convert especially against good teams in the playoffs.

Star Lotulelei sacks Mac Jones | Bills vs. Pats | Wild Card

Buffalo Bills defensive lineman Star Lotulelei smothers New England Patriots quarterback Mac Jones for a speedy 8-yard sack.

www.buffalobills.com

The second interception was a short pass to Henry where the defender got a hand in and it tipped right into another defender's hands. It wasn't like it was a horrible throw. It was thrown to a spot where Henry was the only one who could have caught it. You can argue maybe he should have thrown it to Meyers instead since he was more open, but the play obviously designed for Henry. But when Mac has taken sacks, people have complained that Mac should have thrown the balls to receivers in tighter coverage than Henry is on this play.



And you can argue the first interception was a good throw that Micah Hyde made an incredible play. Mac did throw it to a spot where Agholor was and Agholor had a jump on the defender. Hyde came out from ten yards away and made the play. And Mac was driving the team down the field on that drive.



In time frame you mentioned, the Bills had touchdown drives of 70 yards, 80 yards, 81 yards, 89 yards, and 58 yards. No punts. No turnovers. Not even field goals. All TDs for drives that started on their side of the field. You also didn't mention that Harris ran for 30 yards (3.3 YPC) and Stevenson ran for 27 (3.4 YPC) in that game. Mac was the third leading rusher with 18 yards (9.0 YPC) and had the longest running play of the game for the Pats (16 yards). Yet, you seem to blame Mac.

Again, I never said Mac played great or as you said it "giving him a pump". I said the beat down wasn't on him and he was one of the better Patriots players that day. And it wasn't. And he was. It was the defense that fell apart that cost the Pats that embarrassing loss. Mac could have played better, but he wasn't the reason they lost. Not even close. Saying he was one of the better Patriots players that game is not a great compliment. Most of the team was absolute garbage that game.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We're 2-10 and losing all the close winnable games the past 2 years. We have an excellent defense, even with our 2 best defenders on IR. The offense is broken and we need to upgrade about 7 positions, but there's potential for a great offseason with a top 3 choice and tons of cap space.

Despite the hysteria, BB should stay on, there's not a better coach out there. Even if we finish 2-15, it's not a slam dunk that he's fired, at all, and I don't think it should be. But something should change at the GM & scouting level to make sure this draft is a home run. It's our Miami/Philly moment to right this ship.

At OC, probably Josh is better than BOB, though the real problems are QB, OL, receiver.

 

[Rob0729]

We're 2-10 and losing all the close winnable games the past 2 years. We have an excellent defense, even with our 2 best defenders on IR. The offense is broken and we need to upgrade about 7 positions, but there's potential for a great offseason with a top 3 choice and tons of cap space.

Despite the hysteria, BB should stay on, there's not a better coach out there. Even if we finish 2-15, it's not a slam dunk that he's fired, at all, and I don't think it should be. But something should change at the GM & scouting level to make sure this draft is a home run. It's our Miami/Philly moment to right this ship.

At OC, probably Josh is better than BOB, though the real problems are QB, OL, receiver.

IMHO, you cannot start to rebuild a team in the image of a 72 year old head coach with an outdated offense and coaching philosophy. I still question if Belichick has his fast ball. This is an undisciplined team no matter the talent. A lot of missed tackles, stupid penalties, poor route running, missed blocking assignments, etc. That goes beyond talent. That is on coach too.

 

[PATS16N0]

Mac Jones sucks donkey ass and NUMEROUS posters on this forum knew it and saw it and foretold this was coming miles away.

Deal with that fact anyway you need to.
Apparently coping and seething and being delusional is the plan.

 

[PATS16N0]

Lol, thanks for posting these links.

I didn't realize Kontra called @Rob0729 out on his BS as much as he did, no wonder Rob was so happy he got banned.

Rob in a vigorous and endless defence of Patricia being wholly qualified for OC duties and his assurance we could expect competence from Patricia or he wouldn't have the job. Of course he also claimed Patricia might not be competent too, all in the same thread. Typical Rob covering all the bases for his inevitable reversal in positions while claiming "I've always said..."

Rob also saying Bill had so much job security, "He would need several years of a losing season to be fired". Fast forward a year and Rob wanted Bill's head as early as week 4. This is hilarious. Basically more of Rob's greatest hits.

Oh, and of course a post in there by me saying I hated Patricia as a DC, didn't want him calling plays, and that I'd even take one of Bill's kids in the position over him. So much for me being a Patricia lover.

So it looks like Rob likes to call OTHER people out on their ridiculous takes (according to Rob's own words below) but apparently hates when people bring up HIS old posts, so here's some of them:

Rob is nothing but bad takes. It’s like he’s April Fools posting 365 days a year.
“Brady isn’t even a top 5 quarterback”
“Mac looks great.”

As Triumph says, send in the clowns.

 

[PATS16N0]

Gonna go bleach my eyes out.

 

[DarrylS]

Interesting factoid this AM the Patriots have scored the least fewest point in the NFL this year, 148... they are behind Giants @159, Carolina @191 and Arizona @230...
How freaking sad is that.. need to blow the whole freaking thing up top to bottom..
How do the Pats continue to miss on guys like the Jake Brownings of the world, they used to really good at that type of thing something is very wrong with the Pats brain trust on and off the field.

 

[PATS16N0]

Thanks @Ice_Ice_Brady for demonstrating a sample of all of the very obvious Brady-hate I bring up and then get told to “take my meds” by the revisionist-history ******s-squad who are classically wrong about everything with a relentlessness you have to consider strangely admirable.

Absolute cringe-posting hilarity.

 

[PATS16N0]

Reading this I never want to read idle thoughts again...Jesus lol

Some pretty horrendous takes going back over a decade. Was never my cup of tea.

 

[Huckleberry1]

We're 2-10 and losing all the close winnable games the past 2 years. We have an excellent defense, even with our 2 best defenders on IR. The offense is broken and we need to upgrade about 7 positions, but there's potential for a great offseason with a top 3 choice and tons of cap space.

Despite the hysteria, BB should stay on, there's not a better coach out there. Even if we finish 2-15, it's not a slam dunk that he's fired, at all, and I don't think it should be. But something should change at the GM & scouting level to make sure this draft is a home run. It's our Miami/Philly moment to right this ship.

At OC, probably Josh is better than BOB, though the real problems are QB, OL, receiver.

Agree completely on personnel, he should lose control of that. I’m torn on staying on as coach because part of me wants a clean break from the Dynasty Patriots. I had wanted Mayo to succeed him, but I’m questioning that now for the same reason. Clean house except for Groh and Wolf, and creat a new legacy going forward;

If they don’t clean house, but fire Belichick, then I would be ok with elevating Mayo to HC, and bringing MacDaniels back in. I never wanted O’Brien, but I promised not to bang that drum all season because I think that’s obnoxious. Now that’s he’s proven he isn’t good OC I would love to see him fired, and MacDaniels return. As bad a head coach as he is, he’s also a good offensive coordinator, But I would only bring him back if they are staying in house for HC.

 

[Rob0729]

Agree completely on personnel, he should lose control of that. I’m torn on staying on as coach because part of me wants a clean break from the Dynasty Patriots. I had wanted Mayo to succeed him, but I’m questioning that now for the same reason. Clean house except for Groh and Wolf, and creat a new legacy going forward;

If they don’t clean house, but fire Belichick, then I would be ok with elevating Mayo to HC, and bringing MacDaniels back in. I never wanted O’Brien, but I promised not to bang that drum all season because I think that’s obnoxious. Now that’s he’s proven he isn’t good OC I would love to see him fired, and MacDaniels return. As bad a head coach as he is, he’s also a good offensive coordinator, But I would only bring him back if they are staying in house for HC.

From what I have heard from reporters, people are blaming Matt Groh for a lot of the bad personnel decisions and he is in over his head. Could be scapegoating, but it seems like he has been part of the problem.

But I don't know if I want anyone on the current personnel staff to stay. Maybe Wolf. The drafts have been awful. We haven't done anything of note in free agency in years.

My personal belief is to go an entirely different direction. That obviously comes with its own risks. As Ian has pointed out, we could go through multiple regimes before they get it right. The only reason I have hope is that the Krafts are well respected around the league and it is known that they do not meddle in daily operations like a lot of other owners. So top talent at GM and head coach would see this as a good landing spot.

 

[Huckleberry1]

From what I have heard from reporters, people are blaming Matt Groh for a lot of the bad personnel decisions and he is in over his head. Could be scapegoating, but it seems like he has been part of the problem.

But I don't know if I want anyone on the current personnel staff to stay. Maybe Wolf. The drafts have been awful. We haven't done anything of note in free agency in years.

My personal belief is to go an entirely different direction. That obviously comes with its own risks. As Ian has pointed out, we could go through multiple regimes before they get it right. The only reason I have hope is that the Krafts are well respected around the league and it is known that they do not meddle in daily operations like a lot of other owners. So top talent at GM and head coach would see this as a good landing spot.

Unless they are actually in the discussions I don’t know how anyone knows what Groh and Wolf are doing or recommending. This was the stupid **** DropKickFlutie pretended to know, when in truth he had no way of knowing any of the things he was claiming. The only thing we know for certain is that Belichick has final say on everything, so, at least to me, he’s responsible for every personnel decision, good or bad. On the other hand at least Bob Kraft, and possible Jonathan, have an idea of what input both Groh and Wolf have had, and if they think the input was bad then get rid of either or both of them. They think the input was good, but Belichick overruled them repeatedly, leading to bad decisions, the. Give either one of them, or both the opportunity to take over the GM role. I honestly don’t care what they decide, other than allowing Belichick to continue being the GM, which I don’t want, I just want them to maximize the opportunities they have with this free agency and Draft, because if they really get it right the Patriots could be a serious contender again within a couple of years. They need a good QB, some good OL, and some receivers. Their D and running backs are good, and they can find a young TE on day 2 of the Draft. They can turn this around with the right decisions this offseason, but they have to put the right people in charge of the decisions, because I sure as hell don’t want Belichick or the owners making the decisions on players.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lastly, @patfanken is one of the best people we've ever had on here. So, mocking him is absolutely unnecessary. You're bashing him over things he said over the course of a handful of seasons. He's been here for 20+ years, has played and coached the game, and will forget more than most of us know. And he's been far more right than he's ever been wrong.

I disagree with this. @patfanken has a superficial knowledge of the game, is a Bill stan who never admitted he was wrong about anything, doubled down, tripled down, moved the goalposts time after time, always claiming it was all part of the greater plan, wait until next year, and in the most arrogant way reminded everyone of his superior football knowledge. He and his gang of sycophants were the worst posters on here. If re-posting his own posts is mocking, against board rules, or against etiquette in some way, then this isn’t really a discussion forum. Perhaps just once he should be accountable for years of horrible takes…after all it is in response to him and others like him that several posters have either been banned or left the forum. I think it’s amusing that after all the undeserved pats on the back he got, and full invincibility from the mods, he’s now disappeared, leaving you to defend him.

 

[Rob0729]

Unless they are actually in the discussions I don’t know how anyone knows what Groh and Wolf are doing or recommending. This was the stupid **** DropKickFlutie pretended to know, when in truth he had no way of knowing any of the things he was claiming. The only thing we know for certain is that Belichick has final say on everything, so, at least to me, he’s responsible for every personnel decision, good or bad. On the other hand at least Bob Kraft, and possible Jonathan, have an idea of what input both Groh and Wolf have had, and if they think the input was bad then get rid of either or both of them. They think the input was good, but Belichick overruled them repeatedly, leading to bad decisions, the. Give either one of them, or both the opportunity to take over the GM role. I honestly don’t care what they decide, other than allowing Belichick to continue being the GM, which I don’t want, I just want them to maximize the opportunities they have with this free agency and Draft, because if they really get it right the Patriots could be a serious contender again within a couple of years. They need a good QB, some good OL, and some receivers. Their D and running backs are good, and they can find a young TE on day 2 of the Draft. They can turn this around with the right decisions this offseason, but they have to put the right people in charge of the decisions, because I sure as hell don’t want Belichick or the owners making the decisions on players.

I have heard both Bedard and Bert Breer say the same thing that the feeling is Groh was promoted too fast and he isn't ready for the position and has been struggling. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[Ian]

I disagree with this. @patfanken has a superficial knowledge of the game.

With all due respect, this is so inaccurate, it's not even funny. If you knew anything about him, you'd understand how wrong that statement is.

 

[Ian]

If re-posting his own posts is mocking, against board rules, or against etiquette in some way, then this isn’t really a discussion forum.

And I didn't say you did anything wrong or that it was against board rules. I just didn't see the benefit of it.

All of this is what it is... and we have five more games to hopefully figure something out about the handful of guys we all have questions about before they go into the offseason and potentially do something about it. With or without Bill.

 

[Rob0729]

With all due respect, this is so inaccurate, it's not even funny. If you knew anything about him, you'd understand how wrong that statement is.

Hmmm.... Now you got me wanting to guess who he is. A guy name Ken with playing and coaching experience.

Going through my memory of Kens on the Patriots, I can only come up with Kenneth Sims and Ken Walter who could be around long enough to be Patfanken. Now I don't know if either coached. And Walter was a punter. So was he ever really a player?

Probably shooting too high for who it might be.

And I know you will never give away any poster's private info. So I guess I will just have to dream I was interacting with Kenneth Sims.

 

[PATS16N0]

 

[venecol]

Hmmm.... Now you got me wanting to guess who he is. A guy name Ken with playing and coaching experience.

Going through my memory of Kens on the Patriots, I can only come up with Kenneth Sims and Ken Walter who could be around long enough to be Patfanken. Now I don't know if either coached. And Walter was a punter. So was he ever really a player?

Probably shooting too high for who it might be.

And I know you will never give away any poster's private info. So I guess I will just have to dream I was interacting with Kenneth Sims.

Here you go Robo, you can play with this while you dream.