Owners including Kraft must turn over all cell phone records

[QuantumMechanic]

It clearly is. What reality are you from?

Exactly. Given the retreads and lousy (way worse than Kaepernick) QBs that teams both this year and in past years recycle from one team to another, the fact that he can't even get a tryout is clearly because of his politics, without question.

However...

That alone doesn't make it collusion. To be collusion there has to be some level of cooperation between two or more teams or between one team and the league office.

 

[mgteich]

An email exchange with the topic being kaepernick doesn’t equate to collusion unless they are making joint decisions.

I would think that the content of the exchange matters.

 

[Ring 6]

I would think that the content of the exchange matters.

Only if it’s an act of collusion. If they have 1000 emails back and forth discussing their opinion of krapernick saying he is an @sshole that isn’t collusion. Contrary to what is being said if there is proof a team or teams didn’t hire him because of his politics he has nothing unless they conspired.

It’s not about why he isn’t on a team it’s about whether owners colluded to keep him out.

 

[brdmaverick]

It clearly is. What reality are you from?

Look, his fall from grace is just as surprising to me as it is to others. This guy looked like a bonafide superstar and yet his QUALITY OF PLAY took a nose dive.

I'm from the reality of 'if a guy will help your team win games then he'd have a job.' As much as gms and owners preach morals and such it's all bogus if you win games.

If he was starter material he would have a job. Is he better than some of the backups in the league? Yes, but teams can have different criteria for backups. Some want young up and comers (which is isn't anymore) while others may prefer a guy who fits their offense better.

The bottom line is that even if this is a all about his politics his recent performance ruins his entire argument. If you lead a team to a 3-16 record over two seasons it's hard to argue you are ENTITLED to anything.

 

[XLIX]

That being said, I find it repugnant that anyone can be kept from working simply because you don't like his peaceful political opinion.

And I find it repugnant that some people think there shouldn't be consequences for offensive behavior.

If it can be done to Kapernick then it can be done to everyone else.

That's right, it can be done to everyone else -- and that's a good thing. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

I don't look forward to an America where you have have to give up your right to an opinion in order to get a job. But the truth is that THAT is what we are gradually moving toward.

I have no sympathy for the guy. If you are in the NFL, deliberately creating a tremendous distraction for your team is a very, very bad idea. A superstar could survive it but backup level talent can't. He is not the first NFLer whose career suffered for reasons beyond actual performance.

 

[XLIX]

If they find collusion they can void the CBA and then get ready for a long protracted work stoppage

No NFL player is going to sacrifice a single paycheck for Colin Kaepernick, let alone engage in a "long, protracted" work stoppage.

 

[XLIX]

I'm still hazy on what the actual issue is here. The owners aren't within their rights to say to each other "this guy is a jerk and an embarrassment to the league and needs to go away?"

They cannot decide amongst themselves, as a group, to blackball a player (or otherwise limit his earnings). That would be a violation of the CBA.

EDIT: Except in instances where it is specifically allowed by the CBA, such as the rookie draft.

 

[Ring 6]

Kaep will either be offered a job, or the day the judge says the NFL turns over the email cellphone data, the negotiation will begin.

Kaep needs the money. He has an expensive SJW girlfriend in a 3 million dollar condo in NYC, and his own multi million dollar joint on the West Coast.

The dynamic, the framing around that will be interesting, because he has been hoisted up as a modern civil rights hero, especially by Harry Edwards. Harry has been hovering around him since before protest day one. Between Edwards and the extreme SJW girlfriend, Kaep has been useful.

This will not play well with the fact that Kaep needs serious money to maintain the current lifestyle, and at some point Kaep will feel played. So it will be interesting to watch.

But there is No Way the NFL releases the emails and cellphone data. Anyone really think otherwise?

OT: If it were about playing football, Kaep would be at the Ravens, or playing in Canada.
Lewis was extremely passionate, even for him, in making the point that he had Kaep set up
for a job,until lady love immediately blew it up.

If the reason he doesn’t gave a job is solely his protests that is not a violation of anything.

 

[Ring 6]

Whether one thinks Kap is a martyr or a moron is irrelevant. Kap is arguing the owners communicated with each other to collectively decide not to sign him to a contract. They either did or they didn't. If they did that isn't ok. OTOH if each owner-GM decided individually that Kap either wasn't good enough for the position of backup QB and/or he would be bad for business, that is ok.
If cell phone records do come into play, if there are texts that are germane then they are germane. Any texts that are not germane (especially ones that are embarrassing) should never see the light of day.
It really is that simple. Unfortunately there are always snakes abounding in front of and behind the gavel. And whether it's Tom Brady, Kap, NFL owners, whomever -- when the snakes set and stretch the rules to fit their agenda then we all are being setup for the potential to be boned.
I'm no fan of NFL owners, NFL execs or Kap. But when the process is twisted to fit who we like or dislike then we are hurting our own cause. period.

This isn’t a review of every communication they have had with anyone about anything, it only pertains to krapernick IF THE REQUEST IS ALLOWED. Without question there will be a major battle to even get a judge or arbiter to agree there is basis to the case itself as well as the request for communications.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I strongly disagree that the NFL owners are blackballing him about his political "views" but I would not be surprised if they are avoiding him do to his form of protest. His timing and approach to his protest (plus the Pig socks, girlfriend comments and Castro shirt) have alienated a large percentage of NFL customers. Much like the Michael Vick dog fighting issue each owner needs to decide if his upside is worth the headaches. In the Vick case a team determined that his skill set was worth the fan's ire and they took him on. Just like Greg Hardy and others.... . The owners determined that Ray Rice was no longer worth the risk. So far no one has made the case that bringing in Kaepernick is worth it. Does not matter if he is better than X number of QB's in the league as that is only one small piece of the equation.

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

However, I would not be shocked to see emails from top owners to all the other owners recommending not signing Kaep because his hiring would hurt the league and the revenues of all the owners. I would call that collusion.

Only if it’s an act of collusion. If they have 1000 emails back and forth discussing their opinion of krapernick saying he is an @sshole that isn’t collusion. Contrary to what is being said if there is proof a team or teams didn’t hire him because of his politics he has nothing unless they conspired.

It’s not about why he isn’t on a team it’s about whether owners colluded to keep him out.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

No NFL player is going to sacrifice a single paycheck for Colin Kaepernick, let alone engage in a "long, protracted" work stoppage.

They won't sacrifice anything for Kaepernick. But if it comes out that the owners were engaging in collusion against a player, that is going to poison the well badly and immediately. The other players may or may not care about Kaepernick's politics, but they sure as hell are going to care -- and care deeply -- if it is proven that owners are colluding against a player, any player. Especially if the collusion was widespread enough to reach the threshold for voiding the CBA. Collusion is a tremendous breach of trust and it should infuriate the players.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Exactly. Given the retreads and lousy (way worse than Kaepernick) QBs that teams both this year and in past years recycle from one team to another, the fact that he can't even get a tryout is clearly because of his politics, without question.

However...

That alone doesn't make it collusion. To be collusion there has to be some level of cooperation between two or more teams or between one team and the league office.

There have been dozens of threads about Kaep on here (that thankfully all get shut down) and this is pretty much the most accurate post in all of them.

 

[primetime]

Exactly. Given the retreads and lousy (way worse than Kaepernick) QBs that teams both this year and in past years recycle from one team to another, the fact that he can't even get a tryout is clearly because of his politics, without question.

However...

That alone doesn't make it collusion. To be collusion there has to be some level of cooperation between two or more teams or between one team and the league office.

Right, exactly. This is a labor law argument along the lines of blacklisting. There has to be active intent and coordination of intent. But the idea that he isn't playing because of his ability, when he had a 14:4 TD/INT ratio and added 500 yards on the ground on a horrible team, seems pretty damn specious when Tom freaking Savage is starting NFL games.

 

[supafly]

But the idea that he isn't playing because of his ability, when he had a 14:4 TD/INT ratio and added 500 yards on the ground on a horrible team, seems pretty damn specious when Tom freaking Savage is starting NFL games.

I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another, but he actually had a 16:4 TD/INT ratio.

 

[XLIX]

They won't sacrifice anything for Kaepernick. But if it comes out that the owners were engaging in collusion against a player, that is going to poison the well badly and immediately. The other players may or may not care about Kaepernick's politics, but they sure as hell are going to care -- and care deeply -- if it is proven that owners are colluding against a player, any player. Especially if the collusion was widespread enough to reach the threshold for voiding the CBA. Collusion is a tremendous breach of trust and it should infuriate the players.

That is a valid point, but I think we still come back to the union's inability to absorb long term sacrifice and their willingness to surrender so quickly and easily.

 

[Tony2046]

Poor conduct. When did he beat a woman or get involved in a drug bust? Plenty of guys who did one, or the other or both are still employed by the league. You don't LIKE his conduct because you don't like his politics. That doesn't mean it's poor conduct.

It's definitely about his politics and the media attention he would attract. Unfortunately his talent doesn't outweigh the attention.

Personally I hope he gets another shot in the NFL but it looks like he's burned too many bridges for that to happen.

 

[Tony2046]

I strongly disagree that the NFL owners are blackballing him about his political "views" but I would not be surprised if they are avoiding him do to his form of protest. His timing and approach to his protest (plus the Pig socks, girlfriend comments and Castro shirt) have alienated a large percentage of NFL customers. Much like the Michael Vick dog fighting issue each owner needs to decide if his upside is worth the headaches. In the Vick case a team determined that his skill set was worth the fan's ire and they took him on. Just like Greg Hardy and others.... . The owners determined that Ray Rice was no longer worth the risk. So far no one has made the case that bringing in Kaepernick is worth it. Does not matter if he is better than X number of QB's in the league as that is only one small piece of the equation.

Both Vick and Rice took ownership of their wrong doings and paid the penalty. Both have worked with the respective advocates to help further the message. Vick served jail time and worked with Animal Activists and Rice worked with DV groups. Kaep is a political issue in which half the country thinks he's justified while the other half thinks he's an anti-American or something so much more complicated imo. Hardy? WTF?

 

[Ring 6]

Right, exactly. This is a labor law argument along the lines of blacklisting. There has to be active intent and coordination of intent. But the idea that he isn't playing because of his ability, when he had a 14:4 TD/INT ratio and added 500 yards on the ground on a horrible team, seems pretty damn specious when Tom freaking Savage is starting NFL games.

They were at or near the bottom in scoring, passing offense, rushing offense (with a rb1 that averaged 4.6 ypc on over 200 carries btw) total offense, 3rd didn conversions, 1st downs, 20+ plays, 40+ plays.
The only good thing in his season was he didn’t throw picks so even though his team average 18ppg when he started (and they averaged 22 with Blaine gabbart starting) people can pretend that a low TD to low int ratio means he played well despite every other number saying it’s not the case.
Yup he didn’t throw a lot of picks but he did less than any other teams passing game (with the possible exception of the train wreck rams) to help his team win, even when you include his running.

 

[neali]

Kap is still a good backup. I hope the Pats sign him. OK, bring on the wrath.