Owners including Kraft must turn over all cell phone records

[SEA_Pat]

One giant fishing trip, with little to no chance of catching anything

Oh I think you're going to be proven very very wrong on this.

In the "good old days", there were hardly any written records compared to now. With smart phones, texts, e-mails and the like, there will be millions of words available to review. You really don't think that there was discussion of Kaepernick in terms of his employability that went beyond his football skills? That's almost impossible, never mind completely improbable. And when you find similar discussions in several owners' phones?

This is going to look very very bad for the owners, count on it. And yes, I do think there's a chance even Kraft gets dragged into it, not because he was interested in evaluating Kaepernick as a potential QB, but because he's so entwined in the various committees and other business of the league. And this is what Kaepernick's suit is about; because he was the one who sparked off the protests, his employability has been negatively affected.

And that is pretty easy to prove. Want proof? Easy - just look at the list of people who other teams employ as QBs. He's easily in the top half of that group yet despite it being the most important position in the league and numerous teams needing an upgrade, he's not been brought in for a workout anywhere.

 

[NE-VT]

In the "good old days", there were hardly any written records compared to now. With smart phones, texts, e-mails and the like, there will be millions of words available to review. You really don't think that there was discussion of Kaepernick in terms of his employability that went beyond his football skills? That's almost impossible, never mind completely improbable. And when you find similar discussions in several owners' phones?

This is going to look very very bad for the owners, count on it. And yes, I do think there's a chance even Kraft gets dragged into it, not because he was interested in evaluating Kaepernick as a potential QB, but because he's so entwined in the various committees and other business of the league. And this is what Kaepernick's suit is about; because he was the one who sparked off the protests, his employability has been negatively affected.

I agree on all of this.

And that is pretty easy to prove. Want proof? Easy - just look at the list of people who other teams employ as QBs. He's easily in the top half of that group yet despite it being the most important position in the league and numerous teams needing an upgrade, he's not been brought in for a workout anywhere.

I think you have a pretty strong argument if you just leave this out. It is very likely the owners discussed him in some capacity, and it is not hard to imagine that this starts to look ugly for the NFL.

Discussing Kaepernick's NFL starting QB worthiness will only cause our discussion to be sidetracked. The NFL does not want players with a bad talent to distraction ratio. Of course teams want to avoid the circus. However, some idiot owners might have said things like "I hope no one signs him". This is the core of the case, right?

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

IMHO, a settlement is much more likely. the owners would like this to go away.

I find it hard to believe the Commish, the owners or anyone from the league to back down from anything.

They have been emboldened by the courts.

Which is the reason that the players, fans, sponsors...are fed up with these greedy A-holes . Ratings are down.

Kap sucks. He got what he wanted... Attention.
Enjoy.

You can't sue for public opinion, especially when you brought in on yourself.
IM(very strong) O.

The league care about business, PERIOD. Kap is bad business.

The league and Kap can shove it.
Screw em' both.

 

[patfanken]

I agree with you Ken, but this is also a problem on the other side of the political aisle. It is quite difficult in our age for someone with conservative political beliefs to gain a tenured faculty position at an elite university. Surveys of faculty at such institutions show overwhelming (like 90 percent) preference for the left.

Universities for obvious reasns have always been a breeding ground for progressive ideas. Though over the years that changes over the decades. Universities were bastions of conservatism into the 50's. That changed starting into the 60's, and I'm sure the pendulum is starting to swing once again.

 

[neali]

So I don' t know anything about law. But can't the owners just delete all phone records without anyone ever finding out? And emails too?

Dear Verizon,

This is Jerrah Jones. Please delete all records of my phone calls, texts and emails. Also, please go to all your warehouses that contain tape backups of your entire database and selectively find each text, email and phone call and delete them.

Thank you,

Jerrah

 

[neali]

Marty Schottenheimer was 14-2 as head coach of San Diego when he was fired in 2006. San Diego never again equaled that record and Marty never saw a head coaching job again. But ... he didn't sue the NFL over collusion.

That's because he sucked in the playoffs and his 14-2 team lost in the first round when all they had to do was fall down to win the game.

 

[Joker]

owners-including-kraft-must-turn-over-all-cell-phone-records.

Uh huh...OK...and...uh...Mara? Does Mara have to turn ANYTHING over to ANYBODY?

THIS is all I care about...expose that goddamned cadaverous SNAKE to the light of day...

 

[SEA_Pat]

I think you have a pretty strong argument if you just leave this out. It is very likely the owners discussed him in some capacity, and it is not hard to imagine that this starts to look ugly for the NFL.

Discussing Kaepernick's NFL starting QB worthiness will only cause our discussion to be sidetracked. The NFL does not want players with a bad talent to distraction ratio. Of course teams want to avoid the circus. However, some idiot owners might have said things like "I hope no one signs him". This is the core of the case, right?

I agree this will sidetrack the discussion, although I think I could build a pretty strong case for it. So I'll just stop here.

I would only add that I think it's going to be fantastic when the discussions the owners have been having come out. They can all burn from my point of view, Kraft included. And I consider him the best owner in the league.

 

[TBR]

Universities for obvious reasns have always been a breeding ground for progressive ideas. Though over the years that changes over the decades. Universities were bastions of conservatism into the 50's. That changed starting into the 60's, and I'm sure the pendulum is starting to swing once again.

Not at all. They've gone so far left since the 60s that it's a lost cause at this point. Forget about the pendulum swinging back.

 

[NE-VT]

Not at all. They've gone so far left since the 60s that it's a lost cause at this point. Forget about the pendulum swinging back.

I believe we force a complicated political landscape into a false left-right duality.

On many of the economic issues I care about deeply, we have been moving toward the "right" since the 60s. Corporate influence in politics is at an all time high. There has been a massive increase in inequality. The social safety net is a tangled mess. Infrastructure spending is down. Government funded research in collective goods is down. The pendulum is pretty far to the "right" on all of these things. (Of course, "right" leaning libertarian types are also concerned about some of these same problems, hence the problem with the "left-right" concept)

Perhaps you were referring to social issues? I would agree with you on this. There has been a effort to tear down gendered norms. Interracial interpersonal relations are more common and socially acceptable. Gay rights legislation has been passed. People are becoming more open to drug decriminalization. The left won the culture war of the 60s.

I think understanding changes foreign policy attitudes from the 60s until now is even more complicated. Baby boomers were being drafted. Folks in my generation signed selective service, yet have only experienced military service voluntarily.

Once we start thinking about how issues that cut across economic, social, and foreign policy lines the left-right distinction becomes even more antiquated.

 

[Wheelman]

Dear Verizon,

This is Jerrah Jones. Please delete all records of my phone calls, texts and emails. Also, please go to all your warehouses that contain tape backups of your entire database and selectively find each text, email and phone call and delete them.

Thank you,

Jerrah

So You're saying Tom Brady is not allowed to access his own text messages but the law is? Does that also mean the telecom company lied to Tom Brady? Just trying to make sure I understand.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Whether one thinks Kap is a martyr or a moron is irrelevant. Kap is arguing the owners communicated with each other to collectively decide not to sign him to a contract. They either did or they didn't. If they did that isn't ok. OTOH if each owner-GM decided individually that Kap either wasn't good enough for the position of backup QB and/or he would be bad for business, that is ok.
If cell phone records do come into play, if there are texts that are germane then they are germane. Any texts that are not germane (especially ones that are embarrassing) should never see the light of day.
It really is that simple. Unfortunately there are always snakes abounding in front of and behind the gavel. And whether it's Tom Brady, Kap, NFL owners, whomever -- when the snakes set and stretch the rules to fit their agenda then we all are being setup for the potential to be boned.
I'm no fan of NFL owners, NFL execs or Kap. But when the process is twisted to fit who we like or dislike then we are hurting our own cause. period.

 

[kennyb]

Oh I think you're going to be proven very very wrong on this.

In the "good old days", there were hardly any written records compared to now. With smart phones, texts, e-mails and the like, there will be millions of words available to review. You really don't think that there was discussion of Kaepernick in terms of his employability that went beyond his football skills? That's almost impossible, never mind completely improbable. And when you find similar discussions in several owners' phones?

This is going to look very very bad for the owners, count on it. And yes, I do think there's a chance even Kraft gets dragged into it, not because he was interested in evaluating Kaepernick as a potential QB, but because he's so entwined in the various committees and other business of the league. And this is what Kaepernick's suit is about; because he was the one who sparked off the protests, his employability has been negatively affected.

And that is pretty easy to prove. Want proof? Easy - just look at the list of people who other teams employ as QBs. He's easily in the top half of that group yet despite it being the most important position in the league and numerous teams needing an upgrade, he's not been brought in for a workout anywhere.

This is utter nonsense. Cell phone records prove nothing. They're not recorded so how do you know what was said? Jerry Jones called Kraft two days after kaeps latest stunt. I think that's proof they were talking about him. Laughable.

Kaep doesn't have a job so that proves collusion? Cause he's "better" than some backups? Complete nonsense, it proves no such thing.

Whether you agree with his politics or not or think it's his "free speech" and teams should have to accommodate him, whatever, they don't and likely won't and that doesn't "prove collusion" in any way.

Collusion has a specific definition. No team hiring him doesn't prove it. Not even close.

 

[neali]

So You're saying Tom Brady is not allowed to access his own text messages but the law is? Does that also mean the telecom company lied to Tom Brady? Just trying to make sure I understand.

You don't understand. At all. Not even a little. Everything is backed up. Redundantly.

 

[Wheelman]

You don't understand. At all. Not even a little. Everything is backed up. Redundantly.

Ok, so you're saying the telecom company lied to Tom Brady.

 

[SEA_Pat]

This is utter nonsense. Cell phone records prove nothing. They're not recorded so how do you know what was said? Jerry Jones called Kraft two days after kaeps latest stunt. I think that's proof they were talking about him. Laughable.

Kaep doesn't have a job so that proves collusion? Cause he's "better" than some backups? Complete nonsense, it proves no such thing.

Whether you agree with his politics or not or think it's his "free speech" and teams should have to accommodate him, whatever, they don't and likely won't and that doesn't "prove collusion" in any way.

Collusion has a specific definition. No team hiring him doesn't prove it. Not even close.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post - I was referring to what they have written to each other in text either via SMS or email or whatever.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree on all of this.



I think you have a pretty strong argument if you just leave this out. It is very likely the owners discussed him in some capacity, and it is not hard to imagine that this starts to look ugly for the NFL.

Discussing Kaepernick's NFL starting QB worthiness will only cause our discussion to be sidetracked. The NFL does not want players with a bad talent to distraction ratio. Of course teams want to avoid the circus. However, some idiot owners might have said things like "I hope no one signs him". This is the core of the case, right?

Owners hoping he doesn’t get signed or owners not signing him because of any reason they choose is not an issue.
The issue is if they colluded to make it a joint decision.
An email exchange with the topic being kaepernick doesn’t equate to collusion unless they are making joint decisions.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

You don't understand. At all. Not even a little. Everything is backed up. Redundantly.

Interesting question about providers saving text messages, one I didn't know the answer to, and one that I was curious to find the answer for.
The answer is you are right that metadata is saved and redundantly so. You are wrong regarding content/what is said in the text message. Time, date and parties are recorded anywhere from 5 days to 7 years (depending on the cell phone carrier). Content of the text message is not saved at all by most with Virgin Mobile (up to 90 days) being the lone one I could find that held text content long enough to matter. While it was said a few years ago by Verizon that it saves content for 3 to 5 days, more recently they said they do not save content at all -- in line with the 3 other big carriers that do not save content at all.

This is from a New Law Fordham blog from 2016.
"The majority of cellular service providers do not save the content of text messages at all".
Nathan Freitas, a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University explained that the carrier may have “details of whom [was]texted and when” but “the actual text is what is really hard to get, if not impossible” from the carrier. The Boston Globe reported that carriers, including the four biggest in the country ? AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint ? have publicly confirmed that they delete their copies of messages after delivering them.
Virgin Mobile saves text message content for 90 days but also state only a signed search warrant delivered by criminal law enforcement will allow for access to text message content.

A well known phone forensics expert said he is very successful at retrieving messages for investigations and court cases. Where he gets the information(text content) is from the phone itself or, frequently, old backups done online or to your own PC. But from cell phone providers he notes "I haven't heard of any investigators going to the phone company for text messages. As I understand it, the most a phone company has is the meta data. Might even be at a higher level, such as X number of messages were passed, maybe the to and from, not the content itself.

Bottom line: if old and/or deleted text messages are to be seen/read it will be because (Iphone) you didn't sync, or you have/had OL backups that you do not overwrite regularly, or you saved a backup to a local storage device/third party online storage.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Personally, I don't like the NRA. There are lot of fair criticisms to be made about them.

The only fair criticism of the NRA is the one about them being toothless and weak. I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[dafoe2016]

So let me get this straight, a guy with a 1-10 record as a starting quarterback LAST YEAR is suing the NFL because he is believes his unemployment is due to reasons outside of his playing abilities?

It clearly is. What reality are you from?