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Our Receivers Are Already Better Than In 2022


You read that juju ran 4.54 in 2017 and got confused because the times were listed in the same paragraph.

Here is the quote:
Actually I wouldn't have been confused if that's what I read. But it wasn't. Instead I just googled" jakoby meyers 40 time" and foxsports was the first one to pop up so I clicked on it and said Meyers ran a 4.54 at the 2017 combine and a 4.63 at the 2019 combine. There was  no mention of juju. I guess the fault is googles since they somehow mashed their article. I had googled " juju smith-schusters 40 time" before that but it was a separate google and i closed the window. Very deceptive.
The wording was exactly like in the article you posted but with no mention of juju.
Makes me wonder as to accuracy of some obscure stuff we all occasionally google. I guess the answer is check 2 or 3 different sources to be sure. But it wasn't something I cared about much, so wasn't worth my time.
 
Edelman ran a 4.52… you’re not helping your argument. I’m beginning to think you’re making it up as you go.
Edelman's 40 time was irrelevant. He was explosive. As in short- area quickness,ability to stop on a dime at full speed and make ankle- breaking cuts explosive. Like an nba point guard doing a crossover dribble and leavi g the defender sitting on his ass explosive.
40 times are not all that relevant in football. Most if the greatest wrs were not burners. Wrs rarely run in a straight line and they're getting bumped at the los.
Edelman and Welker are both in the convo for GOAT slot guys. But Edelman was more than just a slot rec. He had many years where he caught more balls outside the #'s than inside. And he lined up all over the field.
 
I love how people are now making Schuster out to be the second coming of Terrell Owens when Schuster had Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him and Myers had Cam Effing Newton one season, a rookie QB the next season, and was in an offense coached by a defensive coach and a special teams coach
 
As the guy hogging all the receiving targets. Yes!
That's not how it works. A receiver can't "hog targets." The targets are determined by the play-caller and quarterback. Sounds like you're real problem may be with Mac, I mean if he's not reading through his progressions and he's just channeling in on one receiver then that's a quarterback issue. What's Jakobi supposed to do? He has a job to do, which primarily is run his route and get open, and then catch it if he's targeted by the quarterback.

So now what? Mac is going to lock in on JuJu? Seems like Mac had more problems when targeting Parker... like several of his INTs were Parker targets. I think he's got a good rapport with Bourne but for whatever reason Belichick allowed him to be in Patricia's doghouse. Anyway, ball distribution is mainly on the quarterback.
 
What makes no sense?
That an offense that struggled to have 14 TDs all season is instantly improved with BOB, JuJu and a new TE.
Bill O'Brien instantly fixes the scheme on this offense, if nothing else they'll be closer to 2021 in week one, probably better.
BOB got fired in Houston.

He had the 11th and 14th ranked offenses the last 2 years with Watson and Hopkins. His teams sucked with the Mac Jones type of QBs.


Juju's best season wasn't with Mahomes, he has produced regardless of who the QB was. He is a solid slot/possession WR, a faster Jakobi Meyers for less money.
The Pats have the 2023 version of JuJu and not when he had AB as the # 1 WR. There is no # 1 WR on this team.
Gesicki barely got looks in 2022 with a new coach, he got demoted and was second on the team in snaps at the TE position. His best numbers were from the year prior when he had Devante Parker drawing coverage.

All this ^ above proves is you assume the worst before doing any actual research to see if it's true.
Research to see if speculation and pie in the sky dreaming is true.

Its always the same. Homers run amok.
 
That an offense that struggled to have 14 TDs all season is instantly improved with BOB, JuJu and a new TE.

BOB got fired in Houston.

He had the 11th and 14th ranked offenses the last 2 years with Watson and Hopkins. His teams sucked with the Mac Jones type of QBs.
They went from 6th in the league in points per game and 10th in 3rd down efficiency in 2021 to 17th and 27th, respectively. That's a massive drop off with essentially the same personnel, so it's clearly a direct correlation to their issues with the offense. And it's also no coincidence that Mac Jones's two best quarters of the season were the 1st and 3rd quarter, (74.4% comp, 68.1%), which was obviously with the early game script and coming out of the locker room after halftime.

Patricia couldn't adjust on the fly as the game evolved, which was an issue all season. So yes, an experienced guy like O'Brien will definitely improve that. Say what you want about his time in Houston, but like McDaniels, he was a solid coordinator here and likely will be again. How he performed on his own as a head coach is something we've already learned doesn't mean much as things seem to go better for them here with Belichick. And I'm not a massive fan on Watson and the verdict is still out on him. So that may end up being a bad example. And you say his teams sucked with Jones types of QBs, but those are the types of guys he reached the postseason with ... so ... I don't know about that.
The Pats have the 2023 version of JuJu and not when he had AB as the # 1 WR. There is no # 1 WR on this team.

Research to see if speculation and pie in the sky dreaming is true.

Its always the same. Homers run amok.
It's not a "homer" thing, it's simply the fact that last year was last year and rather than just say "they stink" and focus on being miserable for the next four months, it certainly makes for better discussion if we look at it analytically. I also would have preferred Meyers, but at least they replaced him and brought in Smith-Schuster, who does give them a couple of dynamics that Meyers didn't have. And I'm assuming they're going to put more on Bourne, who I would say is probably one of my biggest question marks depending on whether or not he can get back to 2021 levels.

Meanwhile, Gesicki adds another dimension they've been lacking, and just having him draw coverage will help make the other guys more productive. They need to get guys into more one-on-one match-ups, which will allow them to make plays in space and hopefully create some bigger opportunities. They've got both Stevenson, Robinson and Strong, who are all terrific catching the ball out of the backfield and we already saw what Strong can do when they get him out there with room to run after the catch. The guy is crazy fast.

Obviously, Thornton is the other question, but I think they'll use him better and it seems like they feel somewhat confident coming out of last year's draft to potentially target another wideout. So that option also appears to be there after there just wasn't anyone else to target given how the trade market evolved. At the same time, that could still change as teams made moves during the draft last year, so who knows?

But I thought @mgteich made some great points in his OP, and again, it's basically trying to look at things through a better lens. Addressing the offensive line is really the biggest key to the whole thing, as it was one of their biggest issues last season. I feel like they've already added some good depth, and I won't be disappointed if they grab another tackle in round one next month.

Needless to say, things like this are reasons why most of us are trying to look at things a little differently. I get you sort of hate everything at this point, Mac included, but it's basically a case of "we have who we have." They'll continue drafting guys behind him and exploring their options, so that will play itself out regardless. Still, they had a terrific defense last year and could have gone farther if the offense didn't fall to near the bottom of the league due to the issues I already mentioned. Even if they had been average, as bad as it was, they still might have won 10 games. So knowing that, there's reason to believe they'll be better, and that's not a "homer" thing - it's a numbers thing. You obviously don't have to agree, but at the same time, being a little less negative wouldn't be a bad thing, either. ;)
 
Just to add a little more sunshine, the offseason acquisitions look like they’ve been made with BOB’s input because they’re guys who fit in his scheme.
 
He's better than all the guys we have.
He ran a 4.5 forty, he’s not big or tall, what exactly is exceptional about him?
I had a 2nd on him so a little high. Raw as hell needed to really learn the position but he's come a long long way. Dynamic threat inside and outside and blocks his butt off. Proven but still just entering his prime and scratching the surface.
So can Juju, his best season statistically doesn’t come close to Juju’s. The kid is a possession receiver, not so different than Juju.
I agree at times but id take this established player over what you'd get in the 2nd.
We could find a better WR in the 4th or 5th, he’s not special.
 
Our receiving corp is already better than in 2022. We have

1) a better OC

2) a better OL coach

3) a 2nd receiving TE

4) improved OT's

5) the addition of a receiving RB

6) Thornton, Bourne and Parker should all be better with better coaching and with another year together
=================
I believe that Belichick will continue to
6) try to find a top receiver at a reasonable price
7) bring in competition for camp (also needed in case of injury)
8) Look for a 5th receiver in the draft
===========
HOWEVER, Belichick may be more satisfied with what we have than we are, with 7 targets behind an improved OL.

WR: Shuster, Thornton, Parker, Bourne
TE: Henry, Gesicki
RB: Harrison
I think 6 is probably the biggest wild card. They didn't get much production from those guys and obviously O'Brien should have a decent impact. Collectively, it's a talented group, and swapping Smith for Gesicki is also going to create tough match-ups that could open up some opportunities for all three of those guys. As much as he frustrated me, Parker did make a few pretty good catches last year and it seems like in the right situation, they could definitely get more from him.

The receiving backs are also intriguing. I think O'Brien will be far more creative with how he does things there and if you go back and look at last season, they never did anything out of the ordinary. We saw flashes of what Strong can do in space. His speed is just insane and obviously we know what Stevenson can do when he gets into the open field. He's also fast and guys have a tough time bringing him down.

The offensive line, as you mentioned, is the other thing that we've seen them address, and that on its own will certainly change things. I think O'Brien will design things better to get the ball out of Jones's hands faster, but just having better protection will be huge. Again, I think they'll target a tackle next month and it'll be nice to have them potentially building another nucleus there. And I agree, another wideout could be on the table now that Bill seems comfortable letting Groh and his staff do the evaluating. Clearly, it worked out just fine last year.

But overall, as nice as it would be to add one more impact guy, there just wasn't one to be had in free agency or via trade, at least not to this point. That could still change in the coming weeks given how we've seen things play out on draft day but either way, I agree, it's definitely still a pretty good group overall when you look at things collectively.
 
Who's better than Aiyuk? The twig? Aiyuk has been very good for the 49ers, he's gotten better each season. You're hard pressed to find a much better WR duo in the entire NFL than Deebo and Aiyuk. Those two blow away any two-combination of Patriots WRs.
Juju, Parker they’ve already had better individual seasons than Aiyuk…. Thornton and Marcus Jones could be if they develop.

This is typical weapon’s crowd nonsense… every weapon every other team has is better than ours.
 
Wait...what? Aiyuk is better than every Pats WR.
Based on what… first round pick status?

He’s a solid possession receiver, not so different than Juju or Bourne. He’d be redundant here.
 
No Higgins?

No Jeudy?

We move.

Bring him home to Boston. 49ers don't have a first. Aiyuk is a Lance guy. He's versatile can play inside outside. Blocks his ass off. Ascending player. There's been rumors about him to NYG, KC. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for us.
View attachment 50682
I haven't watched a lot on him, so I can't speak intelligently on this, but how do you feel about him vs Bourne? Because it sort of feels like that's how the team might look at things in terms of his role here when you watch him play:


He catches a lot on crossers, quick throws, slants, etc. and he's great after the catch. Watching him in that regard, he looks similar to Bourne - or at least how Bourne looked in 2021. Although I would definitely say he's shifter, has quicker feet, etc.
 
Based on what… first round pick status?

He’s a solid possession receiver, not so different than Juju or Bourne. He’d be redundant here.
He's better than JuJu and he's got quicker feet than Bourne, but he looks like he caught a lot of the same types of throws that Bourne did, so I'm curious to hear @BaconGrundleCandy's take on that.
 
Edelman's 40 time was irrelevant. He was explosive. As in short- area quickness,ability to stop on a dime at full speed and make ankle- breaking cuts explosive. Like an nba point guard doing a crossover dribble and leavi g the defender sitting on his ass explosive.
40 times are not all that relevant in football. Most if the greatest wrs were not burners. Wrs rarely run in a straight line and they're getting bumped at the los.
Edelman and Welker are both in the convo for GOAT slot guys. But Edelman was more than just a slot rec. He had many years where he caught more balls outside the #'s than inside. And he lined up all over the field.
40 times are not irrelevant, Deion Sanders, Barry Sanders, Randy Moss weren’t dangerous simply just because they were agile… they were stupid fast.

All our weapons and majority of our players have great agility, BB places a premium on it. Jakobi had it for his size, Juju has it… doesn’t change that when Meyers caught a ball and only had one direction to run, towards the end zone he was not fast.

I can’t believe this is an argument… it took him three years to score his first career TD and the entire team was rooting for him. By WR standards he was slow.
 
40 times are not irrelevant, Deion Sanders, Barry Sanders, Randy Moss weren’t dangerous simply just because they were agile… they were stupid fast.

All our weapons and majority of our players have great agility, BB places a premium on it. Jakobi had it for his size, Juju has it… doesn’t change that when Meyers caught a ball and only had one direction to run, towards the end zone he was not fast.

I can’t believe this is an argument… it took him three years to score his first career TD and the entire team was rooting for him. By WR standards he was slow.
It sort of is if you're not looking for a straight-line type of guy. Around the time Edelman was picked, the emphasis had been on the 3-cone drill, which was Edelman's strength and he obviously saw how Welker took advantage of that. That side-to-side quickness is obviously a big asset and I think I was reading that fewer guys have been taking part in that because of when that drill is run (supposedly, it's done after a lot of the other ones and guys are gassed around that time), which is unfortunate. It had definitely become an interesting metric.
 
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He's better than JuJu and he's got quicker feet than Bourne, but he looks like he caught a lot of the same types of throws that Bourne did, so I'm curious to hear @BaconGrundleCandy's take on that.
He’s never put up a season like Juju’s 2018 campaign, Juju had roughly 400 more receiving yards that season than Brandon’s best. Juju is an inch taller, was ten pounds heavier leaving college and unlike Ayiuk wasn’t afraid to run his agility drills… and Juju’s agility drills were excellent… so “quicker feet” is based on nothing… the eyeball test.
 
I can’t believe this is an argument… it took him three years to score his first career TD and the entire team was rooting for him. By WR standards he was slow.
I will say that he got better at that toward the end. One area that he really improved on was high-pointing the ball and going up for it, and he got stronger and also got better with contested catches. We sort of saw that with him toward the end of the season and it's unfortunate that it didn't work out to keep him here.
 
It sort of is if you're not looking for a straight-line type of guy. Around the time Edelman was picked, the emphasis had been on the 3-cone drill, which was Edelman's strength and he obviously saw how Welker took advantage of that. That side-to-side quickness is obviously a big asset and I think I was reading that fewer guys have been taking part in that because of then that drill is run (supposedly, it's done after a lot of the other ones and guys are gassed around that time), which is unfortunate. It had definitely become an interesting metric.
Nobody is saying forty times = great player.

Once a player proves he can play well, his forty time and measurables set the ceiling. It’s become vogue to say forty times don’t matter because for a long time fools focused solely on forty times. Now the pendulum has swung the other way.

Randy Moss had solid but not exceptional agility for a guy his height and size… what made him deadly beyond his length, innate ability to play the position was his 4.2 forty speed. Give me a break, speed kills.
 
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