Our Aging OL and the Draft

[alphilip77]

If it were for a reasonable price, I'd resign Light to a 2yr deal. As for the draft, draft an OT like Barksdale with one of our 1st rounders, and draft a C like Wiesniewski in the 2nd and have him play guard while grooming to him to replace Koppen.

 

[BlueThunder]

I think Mankins burnt his bridges already....I'd be very surprised if he was back next year....

 

[RayClay]

We can draft some, but what's wrong with Vollmer at LT? Considering his experience, he should get better and he's already more talented than light was IMO.

 

[Synovia]

We can draft some, but what's wrong with Vollmer at LT? Considering his experience, he should get better and he's already more talented than light was IMO.

The only problem with Vollmer at LT in my oppinion is that Light isn't a RT. As long as Light is here (and is starter quality), Vollmer has to play on the other side.

 

[RayClay]

The only problem with Vollmer at LT in my oppinion is that Light isn't a RT. As long as Light is here (and is starter quality), Vollmer has to play on the other side.

The poster was talking about drafting a LT high in round one, that's what I was responding to. This LT would need to replace Light too, unless he was a bust.

 

[mgteich]

We needed guards in 2009. We needed guards in 2010. We will still need guards in 2011. Mankins is gone. Neal may play or retire. Ohrnberger didn't even make the 53 this year. As of now, we can count on Koppen and Connolly for 2 of the 5 interior line positions for 2011, and both of them will be in their contract years in 2011. The need is clear enough, even for a front office that is OK playing UDFA's and street free agents at OG. Dante is the ebst, but he does need a couple of talented bodies.

I ahve little concern regarding OT. The decision will be made regarding Light. Even if Light leaves, we would still have starters Vollmer and Kaczur. And we would still ahve backup LeVoir. We would certainly draft a LT if one dropped into our laps, but there is little reason to panic at this position.

I was thinking the Pats would use one of the earlier picks on an offensive linemen last spring, though it was not a total shock that they did not. The situation would certainly look better had the team been able to reach an agreement with Mankins, and then it got worse with Kaczur's injury.

I guess I was overly optimistic when Larsen was drafted; I envisioned him as the starting center in 2011 after a year with Dante. Now at this point Koppen and the center position is probably only the third position of concern on the line.

Neal is signed through 2011, but that doesn't really mean much of anything. He seriously considered retirement last year, and you have to wonder how much longer he can be counted on to play without his body breaking down after the injuries he has had since SB42.

But the biggest off season decision will probably be what to do with Matt Light. His contract expires after this season; how much money will he be looking for? If he leaves Vollmer would presumably start at LT, but what about RT? Put Kaczur back there until a rookie is ready to take over?

Should make for an interesting draft and free agency next spring, assuming of course there is no lockout.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You don't give us any analysis on why you feel OL replacements are a big priority other than age alone.
If the players are still effective then replacement is not necessary.
Let's look at who is actually starting at OL for the Pats now.

LT Light 32
LG Connolly 28
C Koppen 31
RG Neal 34
RT Vollmer 26

Ok so Connolly and Vollmer are exempt from this converation seeing as they are both in their primes.

Light, Koppen, and Neal are up for discussion. Let's discuss what they bring to the table.

Light - Is an above average LT who struggles against elite pass rushers such as JT, Schobel, Wake, etc. What would constitute an upgrade? You'd have to draft an elite OT in round 1 or luck out on grabbing a great tackle like Vollmer in round 2.
Since Light's future replacement is already on the roster, I don't see the necessity for spending an early pick in this area. Rather a future RT should be groomed to take over RT once Light leaves and Vollmer moves back to his natural LT position.

Koppen - An average to above average center who can get overpowered at the point of attack at times. Koppen is a sound technical player but lacks the power to stuff the stronger DTs/NTs in the league without getting guard help. Can this position be upgraded? Yes, but considering the rarity of strong, athletic centers in the draft, you'd have to go for one early. You can get an average replacement center for a midround draft choice but it is unlikely that player will offer much more than Koppen already does. Is replacing with youth just for the sake of replacement worth it? Not enough to merit an early 1st-2nd round draft selection.

Neal - An above average RG who significantly improves the Pats OL performance when he is in. Has injury issues that tend to sideline him from season to season. IS in fact getting long in the tooth age-wise. If you analyze the effectiveness of the Pats OL with and without Neal in the lineup you'll realize that he is a key to this OL. It IS a concern that there really is no replacement in place for Neal. I thik Connolly was slotted to take over for him but right now he is manning Mankin's spot and doing it quite well.

Drafting a guard to replace Neal would be a good idea, however drafting guards early is a bad value. As we have found with Mankin's costly holdout. We will likely lose him with no higher than 3rd round comp pick at best. He also will miss the first 6 weeks of the season. I think looking a guard in the 3rd round at earliest who has athletic upside and whom our OL guru can coach up into a starter is a good idea.

 

[Synovia]

I strongly disagree that Koppen is an "average to above average" center. I think hes the weakest member on the line, even with Connoly starting. He was pretty good at one point, but he struggles with both really strong DTs and fast DTs at this point.

 

[lamafist]

Old?

Koppen, Light and Kaczur are just north of 30. They've likely got a few seasons left at a high level. Light has always been a powerful run blocker for a LT, and would make the transition to RT pretty well if his footspeed decreases to the point where we want to move Volmer over to LT. (Also, the way NFL offenses have changed over the last four years, RT's have had to become more like LT's.) Considering the likelihood of a work stoppage, I doubt anyone is going to want to overpay for Light this offseason, so I imagine he'd probably take the security of an extension w/ the Pats.

Kaczur's sort of a wild-card, both because of his health, and because we don't know how he'll play inside yet. I don't think we'll want him starting at tackle again, but if he can play inside, he'd have a ton of value as a quality 2nd stringer who can line up anywhere. Again, this is predicated on his health.

I would imagine that Neal is done after this season.

At present, we have an o-line playing at a very, very high level. Whether it's with an early-round draft pick or a stopgap free agent, I don't think it would be particularly hard to fill the immediate holes for next season, while continuing to try out young prospects for development.

In terms of level of need, I have a feeling that if there's a top tier DE/DT in this year's draft, that's where we'll be using the Raider's pick, and that DE/OLB would be the next highest priority after that, though, as always, I'm sure BB will let the draft come to him, and draft by individual value over positional need.

 

[jmt57]

According to Miguel the cap number for Light is $4.5 million this year, which is the sixth highest cap number this year for the Pats. His last contract was from 2004, when he got $9 million in bonuses and salaries that escalated from $1 million to this year's $4.5 million; that extension was for $27 million over six years.

He's only 32, so he still has plenty of football left in him, but on the other hand he's surely aware that this will most likely be his last big payday. Would the Pats franchise him, just to buy more time to negotiate with him? I just don't envision them letting him walk as an unrestricted free agent in March.

 

[lamafist]

I strongly disagree that Koppen is an "average to above average" center. I think hes the weakest member on the line, even with Connoly starting. He was pretty good at one point, but he struggles with both really strong DTs and fast DTs at this point.

I think you seriously underestimate what he brings to the table in terms of being on the same page as Brady in setting protection schemes. I mean, just the continuity between center and QB you get with him and Brady makes him pretty valuable.

As for struggling with strong, fast DT's -- name me a center who wouldn't. That's why you seldom ever see a center being asked to snap the ball and then block anyone 1-on-1.

 

[notex]

Sorry to be a little unclear when I started the thread.

By "Old" I don't mean at all that they are done and "cannot be effective ever again. "

I do, however, think a we should seriously consider using some higher draft picks on some stud OL players.

As players get older, as we all know, the injury bugs seem to surface....

We all know BB values both the DL and OL and is not afraid to draft the "best player available" at either position....Given we have nobody in the ranks that looks to be bonafide starter (except vollmer), I think we need to draft a couple...

 

[pheenix11]

While I will recognize that he was a good draft pick just to stick it to Borges, I'm not a big fan of Matt Light and I don't think he has any business being at LT even now, Vollmer should be over there.

It always seems like whenever there is a big play or a crucial point in a game it's always Light who gets beat or commits a stupid penalty.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

Kaz to IR.....




rotoworld.com

 

[ALP]

well lets see:

this is lights last year
mankins last year
neals last year

seabass can play LT
kazcur is not very good, and now on IR
koppen can/should be upgraded if possible

next years OL line up

LT: vollmer
LG: connoly
C: Koppen/upgrade
RG: upgrade
RT: kazur/upgrade

we need 1-3 starters for the OL, and not sure if we have any on the roster

 

[javajunky]

The pats should have cap money to spend. I prefer a few free agent OL and RB. Those are usually the good (low risk / high reward) positions in free agency.

 

[stinkypete]

Why the assumption that Light and Koppen are gone at the end of the year? Both still play at a high level. Why the assumption that Neal is retiring at the end of the year. Didn't he sign a 2 year deal?

Not to say that youth isn't needed on the line, I just don't see the pending emergency.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm a little wary of Kaczur at RT. He's serviceable, but to my eyes the OL has looked much better this season without him playing.

I agree that interior should be the focus, and specifically finding a replacement for Koppen as I think he's winding down.

Not the left tackle. The left tackle should always be at peak level. My hope is that we can draft a LT with our #1 and have him spend one year in the system, and we'll see Matt Light retire after the next season.

If you've read my posts in the offseason regarding the O-Line, you would know that I'm not high on Kaczur. IMO, he was extended not because he excels in one particular area, but because he can play multiple positions on the O-Line at a good enough level. With that said, though, the team can go in multiple directions. Light is still a very good LT, even at his age. I can see the team doing one of two things in the offseason...

1. Re-sign Light at LT, battle between Connolly and Kaczur at LG, draft replacements for either one of Koppen or Neal (or both), Vollmer at RT.

2. Fail to re-sign Light, move Vollmer to LT, Connolly/draft pick at LG, Koppen at center, draft for RG, and Kaczur at RT.

Between both scenarios, I have to say that scenario number one looks to be the better option to me. Like I said, Light is still capable of playing at a high level and has been nothing short of solid this season at LT. Let Connolly and Kaczur battle it out for LG and may the best man win, use draft picks to get more size and strength at center for an aging Koppen as well as guard where Neal is winding down, and keep Vollmer at RT until Light is ready to hang 'em up.

 

[flycessna]

Continuity is key!

I think that with an Offensive line some of the X factors related to their successfulness are the length of time they have been together and their ability to work as a single unit.

Add to that the longevity of the position in general I don’t see a real need to waste top draft picks on finding replacements....unless you came across some real stud that only comes around once every 10 years. And even then only maybe??

So we can slowly replace them one at a time here and there so we always have a line that knows the system and works good together. And frankly speaking they look pretty damn good considering…