OT: Tyreek Hill detained outside stadium prior to Dolphins game, plans to play today

[signbabybrady]

As I e said I am taking this step by step. You seem to be waffling on each step.

You suggested they could have done nothing and allowed him to obscure himself but you agree the officers needed to treat him as a threat.

Do we agree at this point that they needed to address the threat? Or are you still in the stand around until you get shot and just hope you don’t argument?.

You can read the whole thread and yes you'll see me waffling on this subject. I don't have answers but I don't think this was the way to go.

 

[Ring 6]

You can read the whole thread and yes you'll see me waffling on this subject. I don't have answers but I don't think this was the way to go.

Well do we agree that they needed to respond as if they were in danger? I mean given that it’s pretty fair to assume if they don’t it will get them killed at some point?

But this was my original thought. If you dint like what they did, what would you have done in their shoes. Ruling out “do nothing” which I believe you have to unless you think they shouldn’t protect themselves against risk, what options does it leave?

Maybe there isn’t a “good” option, but at least the one they chose resolved the danger and no one got hurt.

 

[signbabybrady]

Well do we agree that they needed to respond as if they were in danger? I mean given that it’s pretty fair to assume if they don’t it will get them killed at some point?

But this was my original thought. If you dint like what they did, what would you have done in their shoes. Ruling out “do nothing” which I believe you have to unless you think they shouldn’t protect themselves against risk, what options does it leave?

Maybe there isn’t a “good” option, but at least the one they chose resolved the danger and no one got hurt.

It resolved danger that didn't actually exist. We don't know what could have happened if the threat was real.

Anyway I don't think the two of us are going to resolve this one so let's give someone else a crack.

 

[Ring 6]

It resolved danger that didn't actually exist. We don't know what could have happened if the threat was real.

Anyway I don't think the two of us are going to resolve this one so let's give someone else a crack.

Well this is where you go off the rails.

You say they must treat the potential danger as real ubtil
diffused and then say they were wrong because the danger wasnt real.

If it was real, the chance of surviving it was much better by taking control than by being a sitting duck.

Im not sure I ever expected to resolve it but rather discuss it frankly and find the common ground and disagreement, and the result may very well be that when a police officer approached a threat there may not be a “good” way to deal with it, only the safest way to play the odds

 

[signbabybrady]

Well this is where you go off the rails.

You say they must treat the potential danger as real ubtil
diffused and then say they were wrong because the danger wasnt real.

If it was real, the chance of surviving it was much better by taking control than by being a sitting duck.

Im not sure I ever expected to resolve it but rather discuss it frankly and find the common ground and disagreement, and the result may very well be that when a police officer approached a threat there may not be a “good” way to deal with it, only the safest way to play the odds

Again that's not what I said

 

[203Pat]

Why did Hill not roll down his window and cooperate with a lawful stop?

No the cops should not be fired. Could it have been handked better? Yes.

Easy to second guess cops safety concerns from behind the safety of a computer screen.

Yes Hill should have rolled his window down and listened but those cops are hotheads. Not only was their initial reaction over the top but cuffing and almost arresting bystanders like Calais Campbell and Jonnu Smith for simply witnessing and asking questions is hardo, power trip behavior. I get that being a cop is a high stress job but a lot of them need to see a therapist or have some sort of actual counseling because people that are that high strung are not capable of deescalating a situation.

 

[carmelo15]

If a kid is being a prick does that give a teacher the right to beat a student? “Well it could have been avoided if they weren’t being a prick?”

Why do we only make these excuses for police? We don’t do this for teachers, we don’t do this for service workers, it’s only police that are authorized to be unprofessional if people are disrespectful.

Lmao what an absurd compariso do kids lose the threat of killing the teacher so they don’t have to go to the office ? Cops can die at any moment why should they take a chance on some entitled idiot that isn’t listening

 

[carmelo15]

You get pulled over, be overly polite, have your documents ready when the cop arrives at your window. Be contrite if you know you were in the wrong. More often than not, the cop lets you off with a warning. Be a ****, prepare to receive the same energy in kind.

It blows my mind, be rude to anyone... the cashier at the store, the librarian, at airport or DMV... why?

I once was overly friendly to the guy at the car rental counter and he gave me a fire red Mustang 5.0 for the same price of the economy car I rented just because. Don't be a ****... it's simple.

Of course when you're a woman beating, child abusing scumbag it's not so simple...

The type of dumb ****s that are rude to waiters and people making there food what do you gain from that

 

[Froob]

Lmao what an absurd compariso do kids lose the threat of killing the teacher so they don’t have to go to the office ? Cops can die at any moment why should they take a chance on some entitled idiot that isn’t listening

He isn’t required to keep his window down while they run his ID. Seems reasonable he tries to avoid a scene.

 

[maust]

He isn’t required to keep his window down while they run his ID. Seems reasonable he tries to avoid a scene.

I think you'll find in Florida he is required to do so. Certainly given the state's generous tint allowance laws it makes sense. With a LEO's legitimate safety considerations it is hardly an unreasonable request. Obviously everything that followed tyREEK's failure to comply was a bit less than 'reasonable'

 

[maust]

The type of dumb ****s that are rude to waiters and people making there food what do you gain from that

Sometimes they gain a subtle saliva based condiment

 

[Patsfan1645]

Long time lurker here that enjoys reading the threads much more than being involved in the conversations. I did want to give a perspective from someone who retired from law enforcement two years ago with 25 years on the job, 6 years as a training officer, 13 years as a street supervisor in a city of over half a million.

I have not read (beyond this thread) what happened with Hill on the traffic stop nor have I watched a video. But the gist of it from what I gather is he was stopped for a driving infraction, he was angry/upset, would not keep his window (tinted) down and ultimately removed from the vehicle and was taken into custody. If that is incorrect or I am missing key points I'm sure someone will let me know

First let me say that traffic stops are the most dangerous and potentially deadly encounter for law enforcement. It is an unexpected meeting by a citizen and PD. According to FBI statistics it has the highest probability of going bad. I want to weigh-in on signbabybrady's comment of something to the effect that if there was clear and present danger why did the officers recklessly rush the car (I have not seen a video so I have no idea how they approached).

First I would say sometimes hard to tell if the windows are tinted and how dark if the officer was following from behind and observed a violation. But lets assume they did notice the windows are dark tint. If the traffic stop is not a felony stop (multiple police units, guns drawn, bull horn ordering everyone out of the vehicle one at a time, hands out the window) then the officer has to as safely as possible make an approach to contact the driver. We don't want to make every traffic stop like a felony stop because the public does not deserve to be treated like that. If as I approach the back of the vehicle I would be yelling to the driver to roll down all the windows I want to see what's going on inside (is there more occupants, what are they doing, do I see any weapons). Without writing a book here on what to do if they do A,B,C. Lets assume that he opened the windows and our conversation was not pleasant, he is angry and not very willing to comply with my directions (request for drivers license, registration and proof of insurance) but ultimately he complies but continues to complain and be agitated. As I indicate to him that I'm going to step back to my car to run his information that he needs to keep his windows down for both of our safety he states he is not going to do it and will roll them back up. That's a problem because I will giving up my view of what's going on in the vehicle and have to go through that process of regaining that ground, its just not safe or prudent. I do not know about Florida law but in my home state PD has the right to remove every person (and detain anyone suspected of criminal activity) from the vehicle during the encounter if they can articulate a safety concern and/or the situation does not allow the officer to continue the investigation.

I don't want to judge the actions of the officers (any contempt of cop?)but I learned in my career that sometimes you may need to do a little extra to avoid the complaints and to get compliance. That as PD just because the law allows you to do certain things there may be a better approach to getting an acceptable outcome. Treat everyone like you would want your family members treated if they were stopped by PD. Most stops will be the first contact with PD, be patient with them. And for the citizen.......There is a time and place to complain about an officer and their actions, its never down the barrel of a gun.

Sidenote...... $%^& Tyreek Hill and go Pats!

 

[Froob]

I think you'll find in Florida he is required to do so. Certainly given the state's generous tint allowance laws it makes sense. With a LEO's legitimate safety considerations it is hardly an unreasonable request. Obviously everything that followed tyREEK's failure to comply was a bit less than 'reasonable'

Do you think it was reasonable to threaten to arrest Jonnu (not for robbing the Patriots) and Calais Campbell?

 

[maust]

Do you think it was reasonable to threaten to arrest Jonnu (not for robbing the Patriots) and Calais Campbell?

Why do you insist on coming at me with questions unrelated to what I've posted?

 

[signbabybrady]

Long time lurker here that enjoys reading the threads much more than being involved in the conversations. I did want to give a perspective from someone who retired from law enforcement two years ago with 25 years on the job, 6 years as a training officer, 13 years as a street supervisor in a city of over half a million.

I have not read (beyond this thread) what happened with Hill on the traffic stop nor have I watched a video. But the gist of it from what I gather is he was stopped for a driving infraction, he was angry/upset, would not keep his window (tinted) down and ultimately removed from the vehicle and was taken into custody. If that is incorrect or I am missing key points I'm sure someone will let me know

First let me say that traffic stops are the most dangerous and potentially deadly encounter for law enforcement. It is an unexpected meeting by a citizen and PD. According to FBI statistics it has the highest probability of going bad. I want to weigh-in on signbabybrady's comment of something to the effect that if there was clear and present danger why did the officers recklessly rush the car (I have not seen a video so I have no idea how they approached).

First I would say sometimes hard to tell if the windows are tinted and how dark if the officer was following from behind and observed a violation. But lets assume they did notice the windows are dark tint. If the traffic stop is not a felony stop (multiple police units, guns drawn, bull horn ordering everyone out of the vehicle one at a time, hands out the window) then the officer has to as safely as possible make an approach to contact the driver. We don't want to make every traffic stop like a felony stop because the public does not deserve to be treated like that. If as I approach the back of the vehicle I would be yelling to the driver to roll down all the windows I want to see what's going on inside (is there more occupants, what are they doing, do I see any weapons). Without writing a book here on what to do if they do A,B,C. Lets assume that he opened the windows and our conversation was not pleasant, he is angry and not very willing to comply with my directions (request for drivers license, registration and proof of insurance) but ultimately he complies but continues to complain and be agitated. As I indicate to him that I'm going to step back to my car to run his information that he needs to keep his windows down for both of our safety he states he is not going to do it and will roll them back up. That's a problem because I will giving up my view of what's going on in the vehicle and have to go through that process of regaining that ground, its just not safe or prudent. I do not know about Florida law but in my home state PD has the right to remove every person (and detain anyone suspected of criminal activity) from the vehicle during the encounter if they can articulate a safety concern and/or the situation does not allow the officer to continue the investigation.

I don't want to judge the actions of the officers (any contempt of cop?)but I learned in my career that sometimes you may need to do a little extra to avoid the complaints and to get compliance. That as PD just because the law allows you to do certain things there may be a better approach to getting an acceptable outcome. Treat everyone like you would want your family members treated if they were stopped by PD. Most stops will be the first contact with PD, be patient with them. And for the citizen.......There is a time and place to complain about an officer and their actions, its never down the barrel of a gun.

Sidenote...... $%^& Tyreek Hill and go Pats!

Thanks for your service and detailed response.

You pretty much have all the details but it probably would be worth a watch. I'd be very interested to hear how else you think it could have been handled.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Thanks for your service and detailed response.

You pretty much have all the details but it probably would be worth a watch. I'd be very interested to hear how else you think it could have been handled.

I may take a peek at it. I just dislike him so much I hate to give him that much attention

 

[Patnation21]

Tyreek is a convicted woman beater. He choked, punched and kicked his pregnant ex. He was also accused of breaking his young sons arm and also assaulted a marina owner last summer. He's a scum bag. The fact he's playing victim is hilarious to me.

 

[borg]

The type of dumb ****s that are rude to waiters and people making there food what do you gain from that

 

[BTTA]

That happens a lot. Sitting on the curb is pretty standard. We usually have them do it and cross their legs. It’s to put them at a tactical disadvantage if they try to get up it takes longer. Contrary to popular opinion some people especially MMA or someone physically gifted like Hill can be quite formidable even handcuffed. I’m not saying he was being so. I’m just pointing out that some handcuffed people are not as harmless as the public thinks. That’s why just doing what you’re asked to is important. It not just a “power trip” some people think it is.

Out of practical curiosity, how would you respond if I said (accurately) that due to a bad hip, I can't sit on the ground of the curb in any position without it causing pain and swelling?

 

[BTTA]

Do you not understand the difference? Which of the professions above are require to stop people breaking the law, and sometimes get shot at by those people?

That's absolutely true of teachers.