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OT: Tyreek Hill detained outside stadium prior to Dolphins game, plans to play today

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There's a little bit of feigned ignorance in this post.

They ran his plate. They knew it was Tyreek Hill before they pulled the car over. Moreover, they knew he was on the way to the stadium. It is not reasonable to expect that he would, for some reason, gun down two cops on the way to the game.

That said, I don't give a **** what happens to Tyreek Hill, I wish they had broken his arm. He won't dare sue the PD, because the *last* thing he wants are the local police spending any extra second looking into his private life.

Calais Campbell should sue the MDPD for everything they've got however. Prick cops on a power trip ****ed around, and they'll soon find out.

I think the 'ignorance' shoe may be on the other foot, those are motorcycle cops. They don't have the luxury of typing a plate into their cruiser's computer. Fairly unlikely the cop knew who he was before approaching, more likely one was calling in the plate while other's approached the vehicle.
 
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That's a thoughtful response.
From a cops' point of view, Hill was perceived as a threat.
The cops, however, had a path to escalate or de-escalate, while being filmed, and they chose to escalate.
Review the Sandra Bland case. This is a cop, Brian Encinia, who was trained to escalate in order to issue a high volume of tickets and arrests.
He turns on his lights, accelerates directly behind a car, and when the car immediately starts to pull over to avoid the police, he's got her. She didn't put her blinker on! The woman had been racially profiled and arrested previously, had tickets she could not pay, dreaded another traffic stop, and got nervous. She lit a cigarette within her own car, presumably to calm herself. The officer immediately escalated, demanded she put out the cigarette, pulled her from her car, and threw her in jail in her first week on a new job. The stop was recorded. She was a mess in jail, crying, anxious she's going to lose the job, and hung herself in her cell. Over a cop trained to escalate.

The cop could have easily said - "hey, for my safety, I really need to see you while I check your license. please leave the tinted window down for a moment, OK?" Or empathize. "Yeah, I know it's hot out here, but for my safety, can you please leave your window down so I can see in the car - it'll only take a few minutes."
He didn't. It's like he's trained to escalate.

From the view of the cops, as well stated above, Hill could be doing things that concern a trained cop.
From the view of the public, here is one more out-of-control cop acting adversarially with members of the community.
How is it that police just don't understand how this behavior continues to drive a wedge with the community?
Is it really impossible to train the cops we have to have any empathy or reasonableness?

There seem to be two approaches to reducing risk in traffic stops.
One is to act like an ass and completely intimidate everyone you come in contact with, relying upon fear to reduce risk.
The other is to act with empathy, understand that no one enjoys being pulled over but everyone wants safe roads, and treat the person as if they are another human.
 
Seems like Hill and the cops were both just being ****s here. Both can improve. I don’t blame the cops for removing him from the vehicle due to him not listening and repeatedly concealing himself, but cuffing him on the ground is obviously excessive relative to the infraction.
It wasn’t clear on the body cam video I saw posted, but a bit after they cuffed him and got him up on his feet there was another altercation where they took him down again. It happened beyond the curb side of the back of his car so not close and therefore unclear, but it seemed like the cop lost it for some reason and assaulted Hill long after he was cuffed and apparently compliant. Thats likely to be the part that gets them in trouble.
 
TBH I've probably done much dumber **** than that just today
I suppose maybe I have too but definitely dumbest thing I've done with law enforcement present.
 
That's a thoughtful response.
From a cops' point of view, Hill was perceived as a threat.
The cops, however, had a path to escalate or de-escalate, while being filmed, and they chose to escalate.
Review the Sandra Bland case. This is a cop, Brian Encinia, who was trained to escalate in order to issue a high volume of tickets and arrests.
He turns on his lights, accelerates directly behind a car, and when the car immediately starts to pull over to avoid the police, he's got her. She didn't put her blinker on! The woman had been racially profiled and arrested previously, had tickets she could not pay, dreaded another traffic stop, and got nervous. She lit a cigarette within her own car, presumably to calm herself. The officer immediately escalated, demanded she put out the cigarette, pulled her from her car, and threw her in jail in her first week on a new job. The stop was recorded. She was a mess in jail, crying, anxious she's going to lose the job, and hung herself in her cell. Over a cop trained to escalate.

The cop could have easily said - "hey, for my safety, I really need to see you while I check your license. please leave the tinted window down for a moment, OK?" Or empathize. "Yeah, I know it's hot out here, but for my safety, can you please leave your window down so I can see in the car - it'll only take a few minutes."
He didn't. It's like he's trained to escalate.

From the view of the cops, as well stated above, Hill could be doing things that concern a trained cop.
From the view of the public, here is one more out-of-control cop acting adversarially with members of the community.
How is it that police just don't understand how this behavior continues to drive a wedge with the community?
Is it really impossible to train the cops we have to have any empathy or reasonableness?

There seem to be two approaches to reducing risk in traffic stops.
One is to act like an ass and completely intimidate everyone you come in contact with, relying upon fear to reduce risk.
The other is to act with empathy, understand that no one enjoys being pulled over but everyone wants safe roads, and treat the person as if they are another human.
I’m not sure the Bland case is relevant here unless you’re stating you believe the Miami officers intentionally sought escalation. I think the video is pretty clear that Hill is escalating before the officer is even off his bike.

That said the Bland case is disturbing as that can be done and technically be within an agencies policy. That is clearly an ethical thing. Policies have to be broad because there are millions of possible scenarios with varying outcomes. Such as an elderly woman with dementia holds a knife towards me. Per policy that is assualtive behavior and something like tasing her is justified, however based on the totality of the observable circumstances I am very unlikely to do that…. I’m probably going to attempt to manually disarm her and grab something like a chair to pin her if needed it’s a judgement call. I’m not doing g that with someone like Hill or someone who poses a much more significant physical threat.

The Bland case is sad. The agency paid out. Some agencies are very stat and revenue generated. That’s not something I concern myself with here but I’m less than two years from retirement. Sounds like that officer should work in Hookset, New Hampshire.

As for descalation, all agencies out her train towards it. Most probably do nationwide. Sometimes verbal d escalation works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes the lowest level of force is descalation. Make no mistake that was low force. He was pulled out of car and put on the ground. No punches kicks or strikes. No weapons. People don’t like what they see but it’s never going to look good.

The thing with verbal deescalation is that it really requires someone to be reasonable and willing to listen to happen. I have to send a message that is received. Works great with housewives and soccer moms…. Not so much with angry drunks.

Based on the video Hill doesn’t appear to be real receptive. Maybe the officer intended on it initially and gave up on it when confronted multiple times by Hill about tapping on the window, maybe he didn’t…. Who knows.

I get the public wants the police to accommodate them when possible. Is it too much to ask for that same public to expect pro football and baseball players who also represent their community to do the same?

One last thing. I’ve interacted with some high profile athletes out here. One of which is a HOF or borderline HOF quarterback… I don’t really follow other teams. I had no idea who he was until someone told me later. Without a helmet on and a number 10 jersey… you’re just another guy. It’s a great assumption to think everyone else knows otherwise. I wouldn’t have known that was Hill. And from the time he speeds by until he’s stopped no one’s likely getting a read back …. Patrol car or motorcycle.
 
It wasn’t clear on the body cam video I saw posted, but a bit after they cuffed him and got him up on his feet there was another altercation where they took him down again. It happened beyond the curb side of the back of his car so not close and therefore unclear, but it seemed like the cop lost it for some reason and assaulted Hill long after he was cuffed and apparently compliant. Thats likely to be the part that gets them in trouble.
I didn’t see that. That certainly could change things depending on the specifics.
 
I think the 'ignorance' shoe may be on the other foot, those are motorcycle cops. They don't have the luxury of typing a plate into their cruiser's computer. Fairly unlikely the cop knew who he was before approaching, more likely one was calling in the plate while other's approached the vehicle.
You can hear one of them say thats Tyreek Hill on the body cam footage I believe right as they first make contact
 
Not that anyone’s opinion has ever been changed by an internet post but I’m a street cop in Southern California and there’s more going on here than meets the eye. Hill does virtually everything possible to escalate this situation all under the guise of “cooperation”.

First of all he is clearly speeding. Not sure if they had a radar or not but it’s obvious. Judging by the closure rate of the other cars, even though they are slowing for the officer, Hill’s speed appears excessive until contact meaning he made no attempt to slow down after he saw the officers or he didn’t see them which he should of.

Most people have been pulled over. Pretty standard to pull over, roll your window down and wait for the officer to approach your vehicle. Most are smart enough to keep there hands visible which is the number one way to avoid any escalation. Hill doesn’t do that. He leaves his tinted windows rolled up. That officer has no idea what’s or who is in that car. He may have put out the license plate to his dispatch but likely doesn’t have a read back yet. In almost all stops of this nature I have done I don’t know who the driver is upon initial contact.

The officers priority is his safety at this point and Hill is not doing anything to assist that. Maybe you can argue in some states he’s not required to and you may be right but it’s a sure fire way escalate the danger of the contact… something the courts don’t consider. So the officer taps on his window what other option does he have at this point? Hill responds by trying to take control of the contact and issuing the officer a command…. Another great way to escalate. Now I can’t see in your car and your not cooperating and argumentatitive. Now I’m much more concerned about the potential danger inside the car like a firearm.

Standard crook mentality is to delay and evade the officer from conducting a record check that may lead to a warrant arrest or a legal search of that vehicle that reveals firearms or drugs. Agree or disagree that is what Hills actions are likely to be interpreted as so far. He has done nothing to diminish any possible danger.


Then he takes it to the next level he rolls the window down, hands over a license, says something and rolls the window back up. For the third time he escalates the contact, this time while “cooperating”. This is obviously going to be seen as another attempt to conceal something in the vehicle and/or control the contact. The public may not agree but officers cannot let detainees, which Hill legally was based on obvious speeding, control the contact. It is potentially extremely dangerous. It gets civilians and cops killed.

There are countless videos online of indecisive cops not addressing threats they were trained to perceive that the public isn’t that result in injury and death. Many of them are so called “routine” traffic stops like this one. There’s a reason I was trained to touch the bumper of your car as I approach your vehicle, its so if you shoot me and drive away they can prove it was your car I approached. That’s about as “routine” as it gets.

So far nothing the officer has done here seems remotely unreasonable. At this point they decide to end the drama and take control of the situation. Hill is told to get out the car. He hesitates. He gets pulled out the car and cuffed. That solves the safety issue which actually deescalates this contact. This is an issue that never squares well with cameras and the public, they don’t like what they see but they never saw the real danger in the first place.

At this point Hill and the officer are much safer than they were 10 seconds prior.

They could have put him against the car instead of the ground it really doesn’t matter. The ground is safer for the officers as it places them at a better tactical advantage but it is lousier optics which matter here. This would have been a story either way.

Hill now actually complies and is ultimately cited for speeding, there is no other crime (possible obstruction likely could have been charged probably wasn’t because he was a dolphin player) which he would have been in the first place if he had simply rolled his window down in the first place.

As for the other player, you are allowed to observe or film a public encounter. You are not allowed to interfere with the officers. Yelling Hill was being beat on was inaccurate. I probably would have simply advised him to stay where he was and there would be no problem. I would have told him he had a right to film from where he was but not to intervene.

As for Hills statement of full cooperation…. Try that level of cooperation with your employer…. You’ll be out a job sooner rather than later. This is an increasing and dangerous trend especially in the post Floyd world. Not sure why but there is a lot of unnecessary escalation now and most of it starts just like this right out of the gate for no real reason.

As for his statement of wanting to know how to make real change…. Mimicking the incident in the end zone probably isn’t going to encourage any meaningful discussion. The dolphins are publicly outraged. Hopefully they’ll have a private conversation with their players about how to safely interact with the cops. It’s the NFL and Hill won’t be the last to get pulled over.

As for the cops they are likely to become political pawns. They are supposed to be judged by the reasonable officer standard…Would an officer of similar training and experience have done the same or similar. If so there should be no issue here.

Not trying to change anyone’s mind just offering a different perspective.

That's a thoughtful response.
From a cops' point of view, Hill was perceived as a threat.
The cops, however, had a path to escalate or de-escalate, while being filmed, and they chose to escalate.
Review the Sandra Bland case. This is a cop, Brian Encinia, who was trained to escalate in order to issue a high volume of tickets and arrests.
He turns on his lights, accelerates directly behind a car, and when the car immediately starts to pull over to avoid the police, he's got her. She didn't put her blinker on! The woman had been racially profiled and arrested previously, had tickets she could not pay, dreaded another traffic stop, and got nervous. She lit a cigarette within her own car, presumably to calm herself. The officer immediately escalated, demanded she put out the cigarette, pulled her from her car, and threw her in jail in her first week on a new job. The stop was recorded. She was a mess in jail, crying, anxious she's going to lose the job, and hung herself in her cell. Over a cop trained to escalate.

The cop could have easily said - "hey, for my safety, I really need to see you while I check your license. please leave the tinted window down for a moment, OK?" Or empathize. "Yeah, I know it's hot out here, but for my safety, can you please leave your window down so I can see in the car - it'll only take a few minutes."
He didn't. It's like he's trained to escalate.

From the view of the cops, as well stated above, Hill could be doing things that concern a trained cop.
From the view of the public, here is one more out-of-control cop acting adversarially with members of the community.
How is it that police just don't understand how this behavior continues to drive a wedge with the community?
Is it really impossible to train the cops we have to have any empathy or reasonableness?

There seem to be two approaches to reducing risk in traffic stops.
One is to act like an ass and completely intimidate everyone you come in contact with, relying upon fear to reduce risk.
The other is to act with empathy, understand that no one enjoys being pulled over but everyone wants safe roads, and treat the person as if they are another human.
I thank you both for the detailed responses to both sides of a very important conversation in society right now. I agree with both points. This is not an easy issue and I think both points are very important.

And thank you for service Bobby T!
 
I didn’t see that. That certainly could change things depending on the specifics.
They were just trying to get him to sit on the curb behind the vehicle. I think that would fit with your original breakdown of seems excessive to common man but done for safety of both parties.
 
I suppose maybe I have too but definitely dumbest thing I've done with law enforcement present.

I'm not as interesting as I probably once was but I continue to perform all manner of dumbasery with law enforcement present. OFC he's my brother and now that he's semi-retired we only live around 50 great mountain riding miles apart for a good part of the year. Combine that with our being home a lot more often than we used to be since I got hit on the motorcycle a few years back and his rides (and I suspect a taste for my wife's cooking) tend to bring him 'round a bit more often than most folks normally feel comfortable having a cop underfoot.
 
That happens a lot. Sitting on the curb is pretty standard. We usually have them do it and cross their legs. It’s to put them at a tactical disadvantage if they try to get up it takes longer. Contrary to popular opinion some people especially MMA or someone physically gifted like Hill can be quite formidable even handcuffed. I’m not saying he was being so. I’m just pointing out that some handcuffed people are not as harmless as the public thinks. That’s why just doing what you’re asked to is important. It not just a “power trip” some people think it is.
 
You can hear one of them say thats Tyreek Hill on the body cam footage I believe right as they first make contact

Didn't catch that on the clip I saw or the extra curricular activities referred to by n1997y. Apparently there's some expanded/different footage making the rounds
 
I'm not as interesting as I probably once was but I continue to perform all manner of dumbasery with law enforcement present. OFC he's my brother and now that he's semi-retired we only live around 50 great mountain riding miles apart for a good part of the year. Combine that with our being home a lot more often than we used to be since I got hit on the motorcycle a few years back and his rides (and I suspect a taste for my wife's cooking) tend to bring him 'round a bit more often than most folks normally feel comfortable having a cop underfoot.
I'm not a motorcycle guy but whatever it is in life we enjoy there's a finite amount, some get more than others. I'm very close with my brothers so I like hearing you getting out and riding with yours. Don't worry about what others feel comfortable with and never turn down a ride.
 
They were just trying to get him to sit on the curb behind the vehicle. I think that would fit with your original breakdown of seems excessive to common man but done for safety of both parties.
I think that police have to assume the worst to protect themselves. Until you know he is not a threat to you, he is.
Obscuring the inside of the vehicle by rolling up the window immediately creates risk and danger for the officer. If 1 time in 1000 the driver has a weapon and may shoot the officer, he must treat all 1000 with that assumption to protect himself.
Basically everything hill did was wrong.
 
I'm not a motorcycle guy but whatever it is in life we enjoy there's a finite amount, some get more than others. I'm very close with my brothers so I like hearing you getting out and riding with yours. Don't worry about what others feel comfortable with and never turn down a ride.

Glad to hear you're tight with your brothers. My putts are perforce briefer these days but i still manage to get out there from time to time. The riding here in the White Mountain foothills is great and substantially safer. We weren't as tight for a lot of years what with living further away from each other and raising our families but we're once again as comfortable with each other as we were as kids. Kinda odd how it all played out. Life has been a helluva good 'ride' for us both
 
Not that anyone’s opinion has ever been changed by an internet post but I’m a street cop in Southern California and there’s more going on here than meets the eye. Hill does virtually everything possible to escalate this situation all under the guise of “cooperation”.

First of all he is clearly speeding. Not sure if they had a radar or not but it’s obvious. Judging by the closure rate of the other cars, even though they are slowing for the officer, Hill’s speed appears excessive until contact meaning he made no attempt to slow down after he saw the officers or he didn’t see them which he should of.

Most people have been pulled over. Pretty standard to pull over, roll your window down and wait for the officer to approach your vehicle. Most are smart enough to keep there hands visible which is the number one way to avoid any escalation. Hill doesn’t do that. He leaves his tinted windows rolled up. That officer has no idea what’s or who is in that car. He may have put out the license plate to his dispatch but likely doesn’t have a read back yet. In almost all stops of this nature I have done I don’t know who the driver is upon initial contact.

The officers priority is his safety at this point and Hill is not doing anything to assist that. Maybe you can argue in some states he’s not required to and you may be right but it’s a sure fire way escalate the danger of the contact… something the courts don’t consider. So the officer taps on his window what other option does he have at this point? Hill responds by trying to take control of the contact and issuing the officer a command…. Another great way to escalate. Now I can’t see in your car and your not cooperating and argumentatitive. Now I’m much more concerned about the potential danger inside the car like a firearm.

Standard crook mentality is to delay and evade the officer from conducting a record check that may lead to a warrant arrest or a legal search of that vehicle that reveals firearms or drugs. Agree or disagree that is what Hills actions are likely to be interpreted as so far. He has done nothing to diminish any possible danger.


Then he takes it to the next level he rolls the window down, hands over a license, says something and rolls the window back up. For the third time he escalates the contact, this time while “cooperating”. This is obviously going to be seen as another attempt to conceal something in the vehicle and/or control the contact. The public may not agree but officers cannot let detainees, which Hill legally was based on obvious speeding, control the contact. It is potentially extremely dangerous. It gets civilians and cops killed.

There are countless videos online of indecisive cops not addressing threats they were trained to perceive that the public isn’t that result in injury and death. Many of them are so called “routine” traffic stops like this one. There’s a reason I was trained to touch the bumper of your car as I approach your vehicle, its so if you shoot me and drive away they can prove it was your car I approached. That’s about as “routine” as it gets.

So far nothing the officer has done here seems remotely unreasonable. At this point they decide to end the drama and take control of the situation. Hill is told to get out the car. He hesitates. He gets pulled out the car and cuffed. That solves the safety issue which actually deescalates this contact. This is an issue that never squares well with cameras and the public, they don’t like what they see but they never saw the real danger in the first place.

At this point Hill and the officer are much safer than they were 10 seconds prior.

They could have put him against the car instead of the ground it really doesn’t matter. The ground is safer for the officers as it places them at a better tactical advantage but it is lousier optics which matter here. This would have been a story either way.

Hill now actually complies and is ultimately cited for speeding, there is no other crime (possible obstruction likely could have been charged probably wasn’t because he was a dolphin player) which he would have been in the first place if he had simply rolled his window down in the first place.

As for the other player, you are allowed to observe or film a public encounter. You are not allowed to interfere with the officers. Yelling Hill was being beat on was inaccurate. I probably would have simply advised him to stay where he was and there would be no problem. I would have told him he had a right to film from where he was but not to intervene.

As for Hills statement of full cooperation…. Try that level of cooperation with your employer…. You’ll be out a job sooner rather than later. This is an increasing and dangerous trend especially in the post Floyd world. Not sure why but there is a lot of unnecessary escalation now and most of it starts just like this right out of the gate for no real reason.

As for his statement of wanting to know how to make real change…. Mimicking the incident in the end zone probably isn’t going to encourage any meaningful discussion. The dolphins are publicly outraged. Hopefully they’ll have a private conversation with their players about how to safely interact with the cops. It’s the NFL and Hill won’t be the last to get pulled over.

As for the cops they are likely to become political pawns. They are supposed to be judged by the reasonable officer standard…Would an officer of similar training and experience have done the same or similar. If so there should be no issue here.

Not trying to change anyone’s mind just offering a different perspective.

Disagree completely with your assessment of what happened. From what you write you seem to be saying that passive aggressive behavior, which can literally be no behavior at all, is a valid reason to give cops a reason for physical intervention. And Hill’s behavior in this instance was in no way physically aggressive. He didn’t get out and get in anyone’s face, he didn’t get out and push anyone, he didn’t do anything that warranted the two cops yanking him out of his car and putting him on the ground. The unfortunate reality in America is that too many police act like they are in Fallujah when they are actually in Forest Hills. We aren’t “ the enemy,” and the pretense that we are is why cops feel they have a right to treat citizens like dogshit, instead of treating people like they pay their salaries, which we actually do.

I think Tyreek Hill is an *******, and he should have gone to prison for breaking his child’s arm. and when I went to the video I assumed the worst of him, and instead what I saw was one cop losing his **** over nothing, and another cop happily joining in to physically attack him. Both cops should be fired, and he should sue the city over their conduct.
 
Disagree completely with your assessment of what happened. From what you write you seem to be saying that passive aggressive behavior, which can literally be no behavior at all, is a valid reason to give cops a reason for physical intervention. And Hill’s behavior in this instance was in no way physically aggressive. He didn’t get out and get in anyone’s face, he didn’t get out and push anyone, he didn’t do anything that warranted the two cops yanking him out of his car and putting him on the ground. The unfortunate reality in America is that too many police act like they are in Fallujah when they are actually in Forest Hills. We aren’t “ the enemy,” and the pretense that we are is why cops feel they have a right to treat citizens like dogshit, instead of treating people like they pay their salaries, which we actually do.

I think Tyreek Hill is an *******, and he should have gone to prison for breaking his child’s arm. and when I went to the video I assumed the worst of him, and instead what I saw was one cop losing his **** over nothing, and another cop happily joining in to physically attack him. Both cops should be fired, and he should sue the city over their conduct.

Why did Hill not roll down his window and cooperate with a lawful stop?

No the cops should not be fired. Could it have been handked better? Yes.

Easy to second guess cops safety concerns from behind the safety of a computer screen.
 
I suppose maybe I have too but definitely dumbest thing I've done with law enforcement present.
OT but re dumb things/law enforcement.
With 9/11 tomorrow, this is appropriate. I'm a forensic dentist and in the immediate days after 9/11 I was in NYC helping to identify the victims of the disaster. You "dress down" with blue jeans and crappy clothes" as you may have to throw them out. I wasn't familiar with mid town Manhattan as I took the train. there were all these cops getting overtime and I asked one easiest way to get to Penn Station. He tells me to hop in the back of a marked cruiser and he goes lights and sirens thru Manhattan. He asked me when the next train was and I said 6 minutes. He tells me if I run, I might make it. Car pulls up to Penn Station and I jump out and start running......Can't understand why people are looking at me.. and it hits me.. I look like crap and just jumped out of the back of a police car. I stopped running before some good Samaritan tackled me...
 
OT but re dumb things/law enforcement.
With 9/11 tomorrow, this is appropriate. I'm a forensic dentist and in the immediate days after 9/11 I was in NYC helping to identify the victims of the disaster. You "dress down" with blue jeans and crappy clothes" as you may have to throw them out. I wasn't familiar with mid town Manhattan as I took the train. there were all these cops getting overtime and I asked one easiest way to get to Penn Station. He tells me to hop in the back of a marked cruiser and he goes lights and sirens thru Manhattan. He asked me when the next train was and I said 6 minutes. He tells me if I run, I might make it. Car pulls up to Penn Station and I jump out and start running......Can't understand why people are looking at me.. and it hits me.. I look like crap and just jumped out of the back of a police car. I stopped running before some good Samaritan tackled me...
That's an admirable thing you did
 
Looks like BS. Tyreek wasn’t doing anything above a minor traffic stop. Zero reason for that kind of treatment. It’s not the cops job to serve their own brand of justice. Everyone gets their day in court, you don’t get to assault citizens.
 
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