OT: Tyreek Hill detained outside stadium prior to Dolphins game, plans to play today

[borg]

So in short he was speeding. Tyreek says he was compliant. This all appears to be over rolling a window back up after they gathered his license and registration. One thing that confused me tho was Hill said he complied but he was asked to leave it down but he said they threatened to break the window which implies it was back up again.

So seems like Hill might have thought he was complying but still managed to piss them off over rolling his window up a few times. Then he didn't sit on the ground when asked after the cuffed him.

Still not sure this enough to justify anything. But there does appear to be some non-compliance not enough to warrant treating him that way but he still could have been acting worse then it sounds.

I'd say the only thing I do know is McDaniel comes off as a douche everytime he speaks.

Cop can't see what perp is doing behind fully tinted, closed window as perp ignores cop's commands.

OT: Nice car

 

[maust]

Maybe I'm naive in this one but why would pulling over to watch be even worthy of asking for an ID. And the cops were already at level ten approaching Campbell who's a bystander. I can see where Tyreek had a part in escalating it but Campbell just got rushed up on.

I share season tickets with my retired cop brother. We don't see eye to eye on everything by any means but over the decades I've come to somewhat understand some of a cop's reasoning whether I agree with it or not I 'get it.' Cops are forced to view every situation as potentially hazardous. The cops told him not to park there, he not only parks there but does it at an angle, like you would if someone in the back of that blacked out SUV was gonna boot the back door open and unload. Campbell says loud enough for anyone within earshot "They're beatin' on tyREEK" which clearly they were not doing. The cops didn't cover themselves in glory there but none of that **** happens if the citizens involved simply acted the way you or I would have. "Yes officer, no officer."

Better to argue your rights in court later than be dead right on the spot

 

[thecore762]

Officer with the tats doesn’t know how to de-escalation a situation.
Hill is a POS and honestly should have kept the windows down.
He handed the officers his ID before he got his windows up.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Officers are the ones with power in this situation. It's their absolute job, no matter how much of a jerk the guy is, to not escalate. They are the ones who made the situation worse. Was Hill being a fool? Probably. But a cop's job is to serve and protect. Their job is to keep things calm and cool. They're the ones who are probably going to be absolutely fine if they kill someone. Cops like this are why Tyreek and Calais react like they did.

 

[TommyD4207]

Again though, the cop is looking at a tinted window SUV that's angled over in front of their scene. He doesn't know what might be inside and is not cooperated with when he asks for an id. The cops overreacted but the individuals involved didn't just cooperate. If they had there's be no story. Enough blame to share all the way around there.

There's a little bit of feigned ignorance in this post.

They ran his plate. They knew it was Tyreek Hill before they pulled the car over. Moreover, they knew he was on the way to the stadium. It is not reasonable to expect that he would, for some reason, gun down two cops on the way to the game.

That said, I don't give a **** what happens to Tyreek Hill, I wish they had broken his arm. He won't dare sue the PD, because the *last* thing he wants are the local police spending any extra second looking into his private life.

Calais Campbell should sue the MDPD for everything they've got however. Prick cops on a power trip ****ed around, and they'll soon find out.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That was assault, pure and simple. Hill should sue those two cops, the department, or the city. Whichever one won’t be protected by immunity. Those cops need to be fired. This is the kind of **** that really gives cops a bad name.

 

[BTTA]

What's the Constitutional ruling on tinted windows? Is a driver required to take actions to make a police officer safe? Are we required to be knowledgeable about what makes police officers feel unsafe, and then to initiate and follow behaviors to help them feel safe? I'm ignorant of these legal angles.

 

[Ross12]

Seems like Hill and the cops were both just being ****s here. Both can improve. I don’t blame the cops for removing him from the vehicle due to him not listening and repeatedly concealing himself, but cuffing him on the ground is obviously excessive relative to the infraction.

 

[signbabybrady]

I share season tickets with my retired cop brother. We don't see eye to eye on everything by any means but over the decades I've come to somewhat understand some of a cop's reasoning whether I agree with it or not I 'get it.' Cops are forced to view every situation as potentially hazardous. The cops told him not to park there, he not only parks there but does it at an angle, like you would if someone in the back of that blacked out SUV was gonna boot the back door open and unload. Campbell says loud enough for anyone within earshot "They're beatin' on tyREEK" which clearly they were not doing. The cops didn't cover themselves in glory there but none of that **** happens if the citizens involved simply acted the way you or I would have. "Yes officer, no officer."

Better to argue your rights in court later than be dead right on the spot

I hope you can see that I'm trying to be fair to both sides. I can see where Tyreek wasn't entirely compliant nothing that warrants what followed just a little bit of dink. Everything else was on the cops and I just see a bunch of cops escalating and making things worse and more dangerous for everyone.

I get that every situation can be potentially hazardous. If so don't they have a requirement to protect not just themselves, Tyreek, and Campbell but everyone in the area? If they parked the car in way that made the cops think shooters would Pop out the trunk then why rush the scene like maniacs an open gun fight in that area at that time would have been catastrophic.

Anyway thats an insane scenario you lay out.

Also, fists and billy clubs didn't come out but if you pulled up and saw that real quick and had to describe to someone on the phone with you what you're seeing saying they are beating on him pretty much conveys the gravity of what he was witnessing.

 

[203Pat]

Only idiots involved in the whole scenario. Hardo, tough guys with badges, immediately escalate the situation and start trying to arrest any onlooker who dares question their tactics. Hill, who is the worst human being in a league full of them, doesn't comply and gets argumentative with the hardo cop which further escalates things. The cops went over the top on this but I am not going to shed any tears for Tyreek Hill.

 

[maust]

I hope you can see that I'm trying to be fair to both sides. I can see where Tyreek wasn't entirely compliant nothing that warrants what followed just a little bit of dink. Everything else was on the cops and I just see a bunch of cops escalating and making things worse and more dangerous for everyone.

I get that every situation can be potentially hazardous. If so don't they have a requirement to protect not just themselves, Tyreek, and Campbell but everyone in the area? If they parked the car in way that made the cops think shooters would Pop out the trunk then why rush the scene like maniacs an open gun fight in that area at that time would have been catastrophic.

Anyway thats an insane scenario you lay out.

Also, fists and billy clubs didn't come out but if you pulled up and saw that real quick and had to describe to someone on the phone with you what you're seeing saying they are beating on him pretty much conveys the gravity of what he was witnessing.

I'm by no means justifying the cops being ridiculously over the top, there was no need for that level of escalation It's just surprising to me how few people ever see a moment like that and consider what the cops might be thinking. Which is what it behooves every one of us to do when we have an encounter with a LEO if we want to have as safe and (except for the $) painless an encounter as possible.

I don't claim to know what what was in the cop's heads. I merely pointed out what they might have been worried about. None of what happened after the stop would have had tyREEK not been a **** but instead put himself in the cop's shoes. I'll repeat myself and say again (for the benefit of both you and 'Benny') that doesn't make the cop's actions right. Just saying we should all keep in mind we don't see these types of cop encounter vids where someone was "yes officer, no officer" then gets beaten, cuffed and stuffed.

A good 40+ years ago the aforementioned brother and I were out for a putt on our motorcycles when I got pulled over by a NH Statie. I was the one behind and as fate would have it I was on a just purchased and far too flashy bike I was planning on repainting. Normally my rides are fairly subdued in appearance so as not to attract attention but it was too good a deal to pass up on a bucket list bike. My brother commented when I got to his place, "If I was on patrol and pulled up on 20 bikes, that's the one I'd peg for the illegal handgun and saddle bag full of coke." I was thinking about that as I stopped on the shoulder. My brother didn't immediately notice and continued out of sight around a bend. Keeping in mind what he'd said, I made no movement other than to put my hands up where he could plainly see them. I left my brain bucket on and did not get off the bike. The Statie stopped a couple of paces back of my right shoulder and gave me very specific instructions for dismounting which I carefully followed. We started politely conversing and he visibly relaxed and buttoned up his holster. Told him I had just bought the bike and the reg was a transfer that apparently hadn't been fully input by the DMV (data entry was still a separate DMV function then) and with his permission I'd get out the paper work.

Everything was going fine but then my brother the cop pulled up on his bike. The Statie immediately told me not to move and placed himself so I was between them but he could still clearly see my brother. He unsnapped his holster keeping his hand on his weapon. Avoiding making this an even longer story, once my brother identified himself and flashed 'master badge' (as in don't leave home without it) we were sent on our way. Not before the Statie politely chided him for pulling up on us and causing him concern and they both had a laugh at my expense over getting pulled over before I even made it home with my newly purchased 'cocaine bike.'

Other than maybe the bike's appearance there was nothing particularly menacing about me. My brother didn't ride up or approach in an aggressive fashion but somehow we made that Statie damn tense. It was the first of several discussions we've had about cop think and something I've always kept in mind since when dealing with a LEO. Don't make someone with a badge, gun and cuffs tense or piss them off, nothing good comes of it. All the more so in today's day and age when everybody and their dog seems to be strapped which makes cops ever more on edge.


Oh yeah just to be clear tyREEK remains a POS. He's just not a POS that neccessarily deserved what he got yesterday. Karma tho...

 

[lancerman]

Tyreek was being a **** and the cop went on a power trip. Two things can be true.

 

[PATSNUTme]

When you are stopped by a police officer, you obey instructions, period. If you have a beef about why you were stopped or how you were treated, you address that later. What is so hard about that, unless you feel that you are special.

And for those who think this is racial, Scottie Schaffer, as big a name in golf as you can get, was stopped, cuffed, and brought to jail for not obeying the instructions of a police officer. This happened while he was driving to play his round at the US Open.

Those who want to be critical of police officers, try doing the job for a week.

Hill thought he was special because of who he is and because he was on his way to play a game. And Campbell should have kept his mouth shut and recorded the incident if he thought the officers were in the wrong.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'm by no means justifying the cops being ridiculously over the top, there was no need for that level of escalation It's just surprising to me how few people ever see a moment like that and consider what the cops might be thinking. Which is what it behooves every one of us to do when we have an encounter with a LEO if we want to have as safe and (except for the $) painless an encounter as possible.

I don't claim to know what what was in the cop's heads. I merely pointed out what they might have been worried about. None of what happened after the stop would have had tyREEK not been a **** but instead put himself in the cop's shoes. I'll repeat myself and say again (for the benefit of both you and 'Benny') that doesn't make the cop's actions right. Just saying we should all keep in mind we don't see these types of cop encounter vids where someone was "yes officer, no officer" then gets beaten, cuffed and stuffed.

A good 40+ years ago the aforementioned brother and I were out for a putt on our motorcycles when I got pulled over by a NH Statie. I was the one behind and as fate would have it I was on a just purchased and far too flashy bike I was planning on repainting. Normally my rides are fairly subdued in appearance so as not to attract attention but it was too good a deal to pass up on a bucket list bike. My brother commented when I got to his place, "If I was on patrol and pulled up on 20 bikes, that's the one I'd peg for the illegal handgun and saddle bag full of coke." I was thinking about that as I stopped on the shoulder. My brother didn't immediately notice and continued out of sight around a bend. Keeping in mind what he'd said, I made no movement other than to put my hands up where he could plainly see them. I left my brain bucket on and did not get off the bike. The Statie stopped a couple of paces back of my right shoulder and gave me very specific instructions for dismounting which I carefully followed. We started politely conversing and he visibly relaxed and buttoned up his holster. Told him I had just bought the bike and the reg was a transfer that apparently hadn't been fully input by the DMV (data entry was still a separate DMV function then) and with his permission I'd get out the paper work.

Everything was going fine but then my brother the cop pulled up on his bike. The Statie immediately told me not to move and placed himself so I was between them but he could still clearly see my brother. He unsnapped his holster keeping his hand on his weapon. Avoiding making this an even longer story, once my brother identified himself and flashed 'master badge' (as in don't leave home without it) we were sent on our way. Not before the Statie politely chided him for pulling up on us and causing him concern and they both had a laugh at my expense over getting pulled over before I even made it home with my newly purchased 'cocaine bike.'

Other than maybe the bike's appearance there was nothing particularly menacing about me. My brother didn't ride up or approach in an aggressive fashion but somehow we made that Statie damn tense. It was the first of several discussions we've had about cop think and something I've always kept in mind since when dealing with a LEO. Don't make someone with a badge, gun and cuffs tense or piss them off, nothing good comes of it. All the more so in today's day and age when everybody and their dog seems to be strapped which makes cops ever more on edge.


Oh yeah just to be clear tyREEK remains a POS. He's just not a POS that neccessarily deserved what he got yesterday. Karma tho...

I have an example of just the opposite I got pulled over once and I was a complete moron and thankfully the cop did not overreact.

I didn't make a full stop at a stop sign which is about 4 houses away from my house. I was about to turn into my driveway when I saw lights flashing.

Mistake 1 I pulled into my driveway anyway.

Then I realized he was coming for me and in my mind I wanted to let him know this was my house and I wasn't trying to avoid him.

Mistake 2 I quickly jumped out of my car to try and tell him this.

Thank God he was smart enough to just use the mega phone on his car to tell me to get back in mine. He could have easily thought I was going to run and then I'd have been the one face down getting cuffed. Or much worse.

And now anytime I see an incident in the news like Tyreek or worse like Floyd I'm left wondering how my situation would have played out if I was in another neighborhood or ethnicity.

Easily the dumbest thing I've done in my life. The officer in my instance could have reacted in many ways that would have been bad for me and even after I got back in my car he could have been a **** to me but he was very nice and understood why I was dumb and gave me some advice for next time basically don't do that lol.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What's the Constitutional ruling on tinted windows? Is a driver required to take actions to make a police officer safe? Are we required to be knowledgeable about what makes police officers feel unsafe, and then to initiate and follow behaviors to help them feel safe? I'm ignorant of these legal angles.

I hope you can see that I'm trying to be fair to both sides. I can see where Tyreek wasn't entirely compliant nothing that warrants what followed just a little bit of dink. Everything else was on the cops and I just see a bunch of cops escalating and making things worse and more dangerous for everyone.

I get that every situation can be potentially hazardous. If so don't they have a requirement to protect not just themselves, Tyreek, and Campbell but everyone in the area? If they parked the car in way that made the cops think shooters would Pop out the trunk then why rush the scene like maniacs an open gun fight in that area at that time would have been catastrophic.

Anyway thats an insane scenario you lay out.

Also, fists and billy clubs didn't come out but if you pulled up and saw that real quick and had to describe to someone on the phone with you what you're seeing saying they are beating on him pretty much conveys the gravity of what he was witnessing.

The escalation is the point. I spent years working with kids with emotional issues. When I started working there the staff were routinely restraining kids every day. I became a supervisor after a couple of years working there and one the first things we engaged in was finding ways to dramatically reduce physical interventions by the staff. The ways we addressed this was by reducing power struggles between foster parents, direct care staff, and the kids, and through de-escalating situations before they could get out of hand. And one of the primary means for doing that was through using approaches that weren’t as confrontational. Over my last 5-7 years there we had almost eliminated physical restraints entirely, and I only had to engage in one, and that when a kid physically attacked a co worker.

The cops in that video had plenty of other options to de escalate that situation, and chose instead to go directly to physical force. Regardless of whether Hill was being a jerk or not yanking him out of the car and repeatedly threatening him was completely unnecessary, and as unprofessional as it gets. If policing in this country is ever going to change then assholes like those two cops need to be culled out of every department. They could have simply gotten his information off of their computers, or called in for it, and cited him for whatever traffic violation they were stopping him for, and refusing to comply with police requests, and left the ticket on his window.

 

[Love The Drake]

The escalation is the point. I spent years working with kids with emotional issues. When I started working there the staff were routinely restraining kids every day. I became a supervisor after a couple of years working there and one the first things we engaged in was finding ways to dramatically reduce physical interventions by the staff. The ways we addressed this was by reducing power struggles between foster parents, direct care staff, and the kids, and through de-escalating situations before they could get out of hand. And one of the primary means for doing that was through using approaches that weren’t as confrontational. Over my last 5-7 years there we had almost eliminated physical restraints entirely, and I only had to engage in one, and that when a kid physically attacked a co worker.

The cops in that video had plenty of other options to de escalate that situation, and chose instead to go directly to physical force. Regardless of whether Hill was being a jerk or not yanking him out of the car and repeatedly threatening him was completely unnecessary, and as unprofessional as it gets. If policing in this country is ever going to change then assholes like those two cops need to be culled out of every department. They could have simply gotten his information off of their computers, or called in for it, and cited him for whatever traffic violation they were stopping him for, and refusing to comply with police requests, and left the ticket on his window.

Maybe the cops had money on the Jags?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

When you are stopped by a police officer, you obey instructions, period. If you have a beef about why you were stopped or how you were treated, you address that later. What is so hard about that, unless you feel that you are special.

And for those who think this is racial, Scottie Schaffer, as big a name in golf as you can get, was stopped, cuffed, and brought to jail for not obeying the instructions of a police officer. This happened while he was driving to play his round at the US Open.

Those who want to be critical of police officers, try doing the job for a week.

Hill thought he was special because of who he is and because he was on his way to play a game. And Campbell should have kept his mouth shut and recorded the incident if he thought the officers were in the wrong.

Got pulled over on the Jersey Shore a few years ago, doing 42 in a 25 mph area. Rolled the window down, had my wallet in my hand and my hands on the steering wheel and my wife's hands on the dash when the officer walked up. It was my way of saying , no furtive moves and everything he needed. "yes, sir, no sir" He asked if it was my first time in this town and it was. Luckily got a warning, not a ticket and as an out of stater ( PA in NJ) that's nearly unheard of. Did my actions contribute? I hope so and that's what I told my kids if they ever get pulled over.

 

[maust]

What's the Constitutional ruling on tinted windows?

Tint laws vary by state. Florida, as you'd expect with a Southern state, allows a fairly high degree of tint with only a 28% visible light transmission requirement for front side windows but reflectivity of that tint is restricted to no more than 25%. There are states that allow more tint but not too many. I can't really tell what state the vehicle is registered in from the vids I've seen but it certainly appears the windows are darker than 28% VLT and also appear more reflective than 25%.

 

[maust]

Easily the dumbest thing I've done in my life.

TBH I've probably done much dumber **** than that just today

 

[Bobby T]

Not that anyone’s opinion has ever been changed by an internet post but I’m a street cop in Southern California and there’s more going on here than meets the eye. Hill does virtually everything possible to escalate this situation all under the guise of “cooperation”.

First of all he is clearly speeding. Not sure if they had a radar or not but it’s obvious. Judging by the closure rate of the other cars, even though they are slowing for the officer, Hill’s speed appears excessive until contact meaning he made no attempt to slow down after he saw the officers or he didn’t see them which he should of.

Most people have been pulled over. Pretty standard to pull over, roll your window down and wait for the officer to approach your vehicle. Most are smart enough to keep there hands visible which is the number one way to avoid any escalation. Hill doesn’t do that. He leaves his tinted windows rolled up. That officer has no idea what’s or who is in that car. He may have put out the license plate to his dispatch but likely doesn’t have a read back yet. In almost all stops of this nature I have done I don’t know who the driver is upon initial contact.

The officers priority is his safety at this point and Hill is not doing anything to assist that. Maybe you can argue in some states he’s not required to and you may be right but it’s a sure fire way escalate the danger of the contact… something the courts don’t consider. So the officer taps on his window what other option does he have at this point? Hill responds by trying to take control of the contact and issuing the officer a command…. Another great way to escalate. Now I can’t see in your car and your not cooperating and argumentatitive. Now I’m much more concerned about the potential danger inside the car like a firearm.

Standard crook mentality is to delay and evade the officer from conducting a record check that may lead to a warrant arrest or a legal search of that vehicle that reveals firearms or drugs. Agree or disagree that is what Hills actions are likely to be interpreted as so far. He has done nothing to diminish any possible danger.


Then he takes it to the next level he rolls the window down, hands over a license, says something and rolls the window back up. For the third time he escalates the contact, this time while “cooperating”. This is obviously going to be seen as another attempt to conceal something in the vehicle and/or control the contact. The public may not agree but officers cannot let detainees, which Hill legally was based on obvious speeding, control the contact. It is potentially extremely dangerous. It gets civilians and cops killed.

There are countless videos online of indecisive cops not addressing threats they were trained to perceive that the public isn’t that result in injury and death. Many of them are so called “routine” traffic stops like this one. There’s a reason I was trained to touch the bumper of your car as I approach your vehicle, its so if you shoot me and drive away they can prove it was your car I approached. That’s about as “routine” as it gets.

So far nothing the officer has done here seems remotely unreasonable. At this point they decide to end the drama and take control of the situation. Hill is told to get out the car. He hesitates. He gets pulled out the car and cuffed. That solves the safety issue which actually deescalates this contact. This is an issue that never squares well with cameras and the public, they don’t like what they see but they never saw the real danger in the first place.

At this point Hill and the officer are much safer than they were 10 seconds prior.

They could have put him against the car instead of the ground it really doesn’t matter. The ground is safer for the officers as it places them at a better tactical advantage but it is lousier optics which matter here. This would have been a story either way.

Hill now actually complies and is ultimately cited for speeding, there is no other crime (possible obstruction likely could have been charged probably wasn’t because he was a dolphin player) which he would have been in the first place if he had simply rolled his window down in the first place.

As for the other player, you are allowed to observe or film a public encounter. You are not allowed to interfere with the officers. Yelling Hill was being beat on was inaccurate. I probably would have simply advised him to stay where he was and there would be no problem. I would have told him he had a right to film from where he was but not to intervene.

As for Hills statement of full cooperation…. Try that level of cooperation with your employer…. You’ll be out a job sooner rather than later. This is an increasing and dangerous trend especially in the post Floyd world. Not sure why but there is a lot of unnecessary escalation now and most of it starts just like this right out of the gate for no real reason.

As for his statement of wanting to know how to make real change…. Mimicking the incident in the end zone probably isn’t going to encourage any meaningful discussion. The dolphins are publicly outraged. Hopefully they’ll have a private conversation with their players about how to safely interact with the cops. It’s the NFL and Hill won’t be the last to get pulled over.

As for the cops they are likely to become political pawns. They are supposed to be judged by the reasonable officer standard…Would an officer of similar training and experience have done the same or similar. If so there should be no issue here.

Not trying to change anyone’s mind just offering a different perspective.