OT: The Buffalo Bills on borrowed time in western NY and the AFC East?

[Rob0729]

P.S. just for clarification sakes, you keep quoting that I said they are last in average ticket sales, but if you read all my posts you would have known I mistakingly put sales in a post instead of prices. Considering you put about 20 hate filled posts claiming the average ticket price is so low is because they have this imaginary 15,000 more seats than Gillette and that I posted the attendence records for the last four years, I would think you would have figured that out. I guess I gave you too much credit.

Can you end this now? I am not going to debate you anymore because you cannot have an adult and civil debate. I am just going to keep on mocking you. If you want to be continually, mocked it is fine with me. I know you little rants are amusing a few people, but most probably want this thread to die.

 

[Rob0729]

And one last thing, since you are too stupid to know why both me and QuiGon saw. Here is the orignal post I am referring to:

Originally Posted by upstater1
yet another link you have trouble reading. At least you're consistent. That's capacity for NFL football games. Look further down in your very own link. 80,350 ticketes sold to the Miami game a decade ago. What happened to all those seats? They are still there. They are covered with tarp. As I said in my very first post on this topic.

Next, your math is abysmally awful, as DaBruinz has pointed out repeatedly. Can you count? Do the math again. 69,000 tix sold divided by 74,000 capacity is 90% capacity. Not 84.5% as you claimed!! Guess what: 69,000 divided by 80,000, however, happens to be 84%.

Hilarious! So ESPN is taking the actual tix sold last year and dividing them by the 80,000 seat capacity!! Which is what I stated in the first place. And they're wrong for doing so. And I've been arguing all along that it would more proper to divide them by 74,000 since the rest of the seats are under the tarp!!

Man, you are incredibly lame.

And here is what you changed it to:

Originally Posted by upstater1
Sigh. Read my original post on this subject where I wrote that the link to the ESPN numbers you provided was bogus because it was dividing the tix sold by original capacity (80,000). I was the one who pointed out that actual capacity on gameday was less than that. Go back and read my post.

Next, your math is abysmally awful, as DaBruinz has pointed out repeatedly. Do the math again. 69,000 tix sold divided by 74,000 capacity is 90% capacity. Not 84.5% as you claimed!! Guess what: 69,000 divided by 80,000, however, happens to be 84%.

Hilarious! So ESPN is taking the actual tix sold last year and dividing them by the 80,000 seat capacity!! Which is what I stated in the first place. And they're wrong for doing so. And I've been arguing all along that it would more proper to divide them by 74,000.

Then, consider this, if indeed the seats have actually been removed, they haven't used that space for refurbshment, because the tarp is still there! In other words, they did it just to reduce seating capacity. Who knows if the seats are there or not? It doesn't matter. The whole point of this argument was to show you that measuring attendance by percent of capacity filled was a backward way of doing it. I have no idea why you refuse to acknowledge actual tickets sold as the only proper way of doing it.

With your way of thinking, it's much more impressive for 38,000 fans to attend a UConn football game (100% capacity) than it is for $100,000 fans to attend a PSU football game (90% capacity).

Now please stop acting like a three year old and let this die already. I am only posting this because you will spend five or six more post referring to the wrong "original" post.

 

[QuiGon]

Now, show me how that's changing my tune, when it mirrors exactly what I wrote in my first post!! Come on, QuiGon. We already know REob doesn't have an ounce of honesty in is body.

Yup.... right... sure... everyone's a moron except you... everyone's dishonest except you... everyone's wrong except you...

Yeah.... sure....

Can you do math, QuiGon? Now who got slammed?

You did. I thought I made that clear....

 

[upstater1]

Mad?!? LOL! Normally I do get mad when people throw around unprevoked insults on these boards, but your posts are friggin' comedy.

Unprovoked. Man, you deserve every insult hurled at you. i've never seen a guy obfuscate and lie so much on this board. Well, maybe Aqua4Ever. but you're next.

 

[upstater1]

P.S. just for clarification sakes, you keep quoting that I said they are last in average ticket sales, but if you read all my posts you would have known I mistakingly put sales in a post instead of prices. Considering you put about 20 hate filled posts claiming the average ticket price is so low is because they have this imaginary 15,000 more seats than Gillette and that I posted the attendence records for the last four years, I would think you would have figured that out. I guess I gave you too much credit.

Can you end this now? I am not going to debate you anymore because you cannot have an adult and civil debate. I am just going to keep on mocking you. If you want to be continually, mocked it is fine with me. I know you little rants are amusing a few people, but most probably want this thread to die.

I would have figured out that you made a mistake because, well, huh?

You're still the guy that refuses to acknowledge ticket sales are a better gauge of attendance than % capacity. Why do you believe I should have recognized your mistake instantly? I mean, given the point you're still insisting on (% capacity over sales) why would I expect logic?

 

[upstater1]

And one last thing, since you are too stupid to know why both me and QuiGon saw. Here is the orignal post I am referring to:



And here is what you changed it to:



Now please stop acting like a three year old and let this die already. I am only posting this because you will spend five or six more post referring to the wrong "original" post.

It says the same exact thing.

You're the one that changed his tune. You went from claiming 84.5% capacity to saying 74,000 capacity.

You can't have it both ways (unless you can't do the math). You're the inconsistent one. I was the one that pointed this out initially, and I've stuck by it.

 

[upstater1]

Yup.... right... sure... everyone's a moron except you... everyone's dishonest except you... everyone's wrong except you...

Yeah.... sure....

You did. I thought I made that clear....

I can do math. As I proved. Thanks for agreeing with me. DaBruinz can too. So not everyone is deficient in that arena but me. Unless you believe that you and Rob = everyone. I'm addressing you two in specific, since you guys can't do basic math.

Let me see if you can. Just answer this question. I'll even make it multiple choice so it's easy for you.:

What is 69,000 divided by 74,000?

A: .845
B: .9

And you're allowed to use a calculator.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I never knew my post would lead to a math education class

 

[Rob0729]

Unprovoked. Man, you deserve every insult hurled at you. i've never seen a guy obfuscate and lie so much on this board. Well, maybe Aqua4Ever. but you're next.

I do agree anyone who will put up with your stupidity should be insulted. I feel that arguing with you is like arguing with an inbred three year old who has been dropped on his head far too many times. And that might be an insult to inbred infants with brain damage everwhere.

When did I ever lying other than in your little warped little universe?

 

[Rob0729]

It says the same exact thing.

You're the one that changed his tune. You went from claiming 84.5% capacity to saying 74,000 capacity.

You can't have it both ways (unless you can't do the math). You're the inconsistent one. I was the one that pointed this out initially, and I've stuck by it.

LOL! Maybe you can throw a tarp over this arguement and you can reduce the capacity of times you have to throw around these arguements over and over again.

 

[Rob0729]

I never knew my post would lead to a math education class

Sorry about that. I am responsible for a part of this.

Too bad upstart1 would rather be an arse than actually get into a real debate. I would have explained that I never actually did the numbers from ESPN's site because I didn't feel I have to and conceeded their calculations are off.

That way we could have saved everyone him doing the same calculations over and over again. Oh well.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Sorry about that. I am responsible for a part of this.

Too bad upstart1 would rather be an arse than actually get into a real debate. I would have explained that I never actually did the numbers from ESPN's site because I didn't feel I have to and conceeded their calculations are off.

That way we could have saved everyone him doing the same calculations over and over again. Oh well.

Nothing to be sorry about..I absolutely LOVE a good debate in a forum...That is until the personal attack insults start hurling one towards the other and then back again....Then it gets ugly.

If 2 guys can express their differences without flaming one another and just show what they interpret as the correct answer then it makes one hell of a good conversation in this and any forum on the net.

 

[Rob0729]

Nothing to be sorry about..I absolutely LOVE a good debate in a forum...That is until the personal attack insults start hurling one towards the other and then back again....Then it gets ugly.

If 2 guys can express their differences without flaming one another and just show what they interpret as the correct answer then it makes one hell of a good conversation in this and any forum on the net.

I agree. I admit I get frustrated with people on these boards and have thrown a few first fire flames in the past, but I end up getting ridiculous threads like this. Now I don't even bother. It is called a little self restraint. This thread started out as pretty good discussion and turned into a flaming pile of dung.

If upstart wasn't overboard with his responses, I would have quit this thread long ago.

 

[upstater1]

Nothing to be sorry about..I absolutely LOVE a good debate in a forum...That is until the personal attack insults start hurling one towards the other and then back again....Then it gets ugly.

If 2 guys can express their differences without flaming one another and just show what they interpret as the correct answer then it makes one hell of a good conversation in this and any forum on the net.

Never been in a flame war on here about football before. QuiGon started wth a few quips. Then as I was civil to Rob repeatedly in my early posts, I couldn't understand why he deliberately and repeatedly was going out of his way to obfuscate the question of ticket sales, or the value of stadium capacity in this argument, as well as details about mileage, etc. that just seemed wholly inaccurate. Yes, I levelled the insults at Rob. But that's because after giving him a chance at proper debate for 5 or 6 exchanges I quickly realized it was like beating my head against the wall. What can I say? Never had a debate like that on here before. And it's obvious from his last posts that we still disagree on what should be relevant to a discussion about a team's pull with their fans!! haha.

 

[upstater1]

LOL! Maybe you can throw a tarp over this arguement and you can reduce the capacity of times you have to throw around these arguements over and over again.

I've been consistent, bud. Anyone who reads this knows that.

You refuse to answer basic questions that would instantly enlighten this entire conversation. Like this one:

What is more relevant to determining the relative strength of a team's fan base?

Tickets sold? Or % capacity?

The nature of our disagreement is that simple (well, excluding the fact that the host of inaccurate facts and speculations presented get annoying, such as 100 miles to Roch, Erie County subsidy, not corporate HQs, etc.)

 

[Rob0729]

Never been in a flame war about football before. QuiGon started insulting me. Then as I was civil to Rob repeatedly in my early posts, I couldn't understand why he deliberately and repeatedly was going out of his way to obfuscate the true ticket sales, the value of stadium capacity in this argument, details about mileage, etc. that just seemed wholly inaccurate. Yes, I levelled the insults at Rob. But that's because after giving him a chance at proper debate for 5 or 6 exchanges I quickly realized it was like beating my head against the wall. What can I say? Never had a debate like that on here before. And it's obvious from his last posts that we still disagree on what should be relevant to a discussion about a team's pull with their fans!! haha.

I never lied or mislead anything about the ticket sales. I mistakenly put the wrong word in an arguement that would have easily been corrected if you looked at my previous posts when I clearly stated that Buffalo is dead last in average ticket prices. You are the one who still maintains there are 80,000 seats when I gave you evidence to the otherwise.

I really don't get you. You refuse to admit you are wrong ever and rather accuse people of lying than admit you are wrong.

Funny, if you talked civilly to me I would admit I was wrong when I was, but you are obviously not mature enough to have an adult conversation and continue to go on about these imaginary 15,000 seats under a tarp that doesn't exist.

Maybe you will learn from this experience and gain some maturity. I kinda doubt it though.

 

[Rob0729]

I've been consistent, bud. Anyone who reads this knows that.

You refuse to answer basic questions that would instantly enlighten this entire conversation. Like this one:

What is more relevant to determining the relative strength of a team's fan base?

Tickets sold? Or % capacity?

The nature of our disagreement is that simple (well, excluding the fact that the host of inaccurate facts and speculations presented get annoying, such as 100 miles to Roch, Erie County subsidy, not corporate HQs, etc.)

Yeah, you continue to lie about 15,000 seats that don't exist.

As for the distance, I looked on a map and based on the legend it looked like Rochester was 100 miles away from Buffalo. Sorry it is only 75.

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...1s=ny&1z=&2pn=&2a=&2c=rochester&2s=ny&2z=&r=f

Ralph Wilson Stadium is about 80 miles away:

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...Monroe+County&2pn=&2a=&2c=Rochester&2s=NY&2z=

Ok, can you stop bring up these same whiney little arguements like a little baby?

 

[Rob0729]

As for determining fan support, you cannot use either tickets sold or percentage capacity as a measuring stick without looking at the situation. The Patriots can only sell 68,000 seats a game, but they probably could sell 75,000 or 80,000 tickets pretty easily if they had them. So do the Patriots have a weaker fan support because they sell less tickets to the game than the Bills eventhough the Bills don't sell out? I mean the Bills sell more tickets than the Patriots. So the Bills fans must be more loyal to their team than the Pats based on your estimates.

So admit it then, you think the Bills fans are more passionate than Patriots fans. You can't have it both ways.

Personally, I think the Pats could easily sell out 74,000 seats every game at their ticket prices compared to the Bills' ticket price. But I guess I have more faith in my fellow Patriots fans than you.

Ok, so now I answered your silly little questions that you seem to not get past. Can you move on now? Or are you going to waste people's time acting like a whiney little baby?

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, upstart, I have addressed all of your questions just to end this stupid thread. If you addressed me in a civil manner, we could have had a civil conversation. You got as many facts wrong in this thread as I have, yet you want to accuse me of lying and spreading falicies. I'm sorry that when I have a few minutes at work to post that I don't have a chance to double check all my facts or correct ESPN's math. But you didn't take the time to check that some of the facts you are throwing out were wrong either. Yet, you refuse to admit it.


This thread has gotten beyond the point of stupidity and I really think it is time to end. If you don't like what I have to post, then ignore me. I plan to do my best to ignore you going on. I don't need people accusing me of lying because I may have mispoken or used an established sites figures that may or may not be wrong.

 

[DaBruinz]

I wasn't going to respond again, but you made me do it with this ludicrious comment. DaBruinz link proved me right. Look at the first fact and figure. It states:

Capacity: 73,967

Exactly what I said. Here is the link again because you must have missed it:

http://www.buffalobills.com/facility/StadiumFacts.jsp

They changed the capacity in 1998 when they renewed their lease because they couldn't sell out games. Look up your facts.

It is fun watching you stomp and cry like a little child. It is quite amusing. Next time you throw insults at someone about lying about the facts, maybe you should actually know the facts.

How did the link prove you right? You were the one pointing to the ESPN page and saying that the Bills only had 84.5% capicity, the lowest in the league (you pointed to it twice). Your using those numbers in your initial post and a subsequent post and then trying to claim you were talking about 73967 as sell-out attendance is nothing but you backtracking. I went back and re-read the thread. You changed your tune in back to back posts of yours. Post #78 and Post #84.

You were wrong and now you have backtracked to say that you were correct. You weren't. And this also flies against a statement you made where you claim that you admit when you are wrong.

You also were the one who implied that the Bills wouldn't be able to find 88 sponsors for luxury boxes, yet you ignored my pointing out that they already have 86 "luxury" boxes and 76 "dugout" boxes currently. Could you please show me where you admitted to being wrong about that?

One of the things I have noticed, Rob, is that other people put up things and you later lay claim to the one pointing out the information. A perfect example is the Renovation of Ralph Wilson Stadium. Upstarter mentioned it first in post #28. Yet, later in the thread, you attempt to use that same renovation comment to support your argument.

Rob, your original claim was that Buffalo is a small market team and that the League is probably going to move them. You cited capacity records from ESPN that were proven to be inaccurate.

The only credit I can give you is that you admit that Wilson hasn't done enough to increase his team's revenue.