OT: Sucks, Curse of Len Bias

[scout]

Jefferson was a great pick.

Except for that - what is the amazing part?

The 2006 draft? It was a complete disaster where Danny used 2 #1 picks (one the 7th overall) and now has Rondo to show for it.

Is it Gerald Green a talented kid who fell into their lap and has yet to show any understanding of how to play basketball?

For all the talk about Ainge's drafting skills he has picked 1 guy who should be starting in the NBA. West, Gomes, Perkins, Allen, etc. are nice 6-9th men on a good team. They only play so many minutes in Boston because Danny's trades that were supposed to get starters have not worked.

You know what is amazing - the Patriots get more criticism for their personnel moves in this town than the Celtics. The only possible reason for that is that Danny is media freindly. His resume is that of a guy who should be fired.

Ainge is a great judge of talent. The problem is when you don't draft in the extreme top of the draft, your not going to get all stars or even starters. Ryan Gomes, 2nd round and the 20th pick. That is pretty amazing. Tony Allen was the 25th pick of the first round (I hope your not comparing basketball to football drafts). Gerald Green was the 18th pick first round, was there a better choice using this pick? Kendrick Perkins 27th pick first round. Leon Powe, 19th pick..........2nd round. Allen Ray was not drafted. Rajon Rondo 21st pick of the first round. Delonte West 24th pick of first round. Look at other NBA rosters and then tell me how bad Danny is doing.

 

[dhamz]

Look at other NBA rosters and then tell me how bad Danny is doing.

He has 2 NBA starters on his roster. Call it 2 1/2 for the 40 games a year you get out of Wally. Exactly 3 guys on the roster have any trade value for reasons that don't involve expriring contracts. His tenure has included zero playoff series wins. I'd say he is doing pretty darn bad.

 

[scout]

He has 2 NBA starters on his roster. Call it 2 1/2 for the 40 games a year you get out of Wally. Exactly 3 guys on the roster have any trade value for reasons that don't involve expriring contracts. His tenure has included zero playoff series wins. I'd say he is doing pretty darn bad.

The Celtics have been in salary cap hell before he got there. In addition they did not have a championship caliber team. When you draft from the mid-range back you are not going to build one. That is why it was so disappointing that they didn't get the number one or two pick. I was hoping you would comment on the draft again.

 

[dhamz]

The Celtics have been in salary cap hell before he got there.

Who was it that traded for Raef Lefrentz and his terrible contract? Who signed Mark Blount to that ridiculous extension? Who brought in Wally and his bad deal?

The only guy left from the previous regimes is Pierce. The cap issues the team still has are 100% Danny's.

In addition they did not have a championship caliber team. When you draft from the mid-range back you are not going to build one.

The Pistons seem to have been a championship contending team for years and I don't recall them picking any of their difference makers early in the draft. The only high pick they had was Darko who contributed nothing. Dallas seems to have done just fine building a really good team without picking high. The Suns have no one higher than the 9th pick on their roster.

Certainly all those teams have great players they have acquired in various ways that did not include a top pick. They show that there are ways to build a contender that do not involve praying that you get a top 2 pick which appears to have been the Celtics most recent plan. Or is KG the most recent? When your GM has a dozen plans in 5 years it is tough to keep up.

 

[scout]

Who was it that traded for Raef Lefrentz and his terrible contract? Who signed Mark Blount to that ridiculous extension? Who brought in Wally and his bad deal?

The only guy left from the previous regimes is Pierce. The cap issues the team still has are 100% Danny's.




The Pistons seem to have been a championship contending team for years and I don't recall them picking any of their difference makers early in the draft. The only high pick they had was Darko who contributed nothing. Dallas seems to have done just fine building a really good team without picking high. The Suns have no one higher than the 9th pick on their roster.

Certainly all those teams have great players they have acquired in various ways that did not include a top pick. They show that there are ways to build a contender that do not involve praying that you get a top 2 pick which appears to have been the Celtics most recent plan. Or is KG the most recent? When your GM has a dozen plans in 5 years it is tough to keep up.

Nice cherry picking. Joe Dumars did a great job in selecting players to win a championship. Any other champions without a low draft choice? San Antonio/Tim Duncan; Miami Heat/Wade; Spurs/Duncan; Detroit/ none; Lakers/Bryant x3; Spurs/Duncan; Bulls/Jordanx3; Rockets/Hakkeem x2;Bulls/Jordanx3; Detroit/Thomas. The list continues with champions and the low draft picks. The highest pick was 13 with Kobe Bryant. West gambled with a draft day trade by taking a young player and obviously paid off (this was before it was vogue). Going back to your original statement of Ainge not being able to draft talent, I would suggest otherwise. With what he's had to pick with, he's done a heck of a job.

 

[dhamz]

Ainge's drafting has been better than some and worse than others. It is nothing to get overly excited about. You just have very low stadards for Ainge. When a GM has presided over 4 drafts and 2 of them have been bad, how he is amazing at the draft?

2003 was very close to a complete disaster. Banks was a horrible pick. There is no debating that. Perkins is a serviceable backup big man which is typically all you can hope for late in round 1. The problem with that in 2003 was it was a very deep draft and the two guys picked right after Perk were Barbosa and Howard who are significantly better players.

2004 was very good. Jefferson has the look of a 2nd tier all star. Allen and West while overrated by a lot of Celtics fans are guys who can crack the rotation for any team in the league. The draft was so good that 3 years later people seem to think it is the norm for Ainge drafts.

2005 is a mixed bag. Gomes was a good pick in round 2. Green who fell into their lap is still a huge question mark. So far he has flashed both the tools the had him projected as high as #3 and the lack of feel for the game that had him fall to 18. It was a no brainer pick that so far hasn't paid any dividends but could if Green ever figures it out.

2006 was awful. They used 2 #1 picks including the highest pick to date in the Ainge era to end up with 2 back-up point guards one of whom the owner has already declared will never play for the team again.

 

[dhamz]

Nice cherry picking. Joe Dumars did a great job in selecting players to win a championship. Any other champions without a low draft choice? San Antonio/Tim Duncan; Miami Heat/Wade; Spurs/Duncan; Detroit/ none; Lakers/Bryant x3; Spurs/Duncan; Bulls/Jordanx3; Rockets/Hakkeem x2;Bulls/Jordanx3; Detroit/Thomas. The list continues with champions and the low draft picks. The highest pick was 13 with Kobe Bryant. West gambled with a draft day trade by taking a young player and obviously paid off (this was before it was vogue). Going back to your original statement of Ainge not being able to draft talent, I would suggest otherwise. With what he's had to pick with, he's done a heck of a job.

In your answer here is you've explained why you think Ainge couldn't have built a title team without a top pick. I still don't buy it when 2 of the 3 best teams in the NBA were not built at the top of the draft.

Even if I did buy it, does that mean you are destined to get worse without that pick like the Celtics have under Danny?

You still haven't explained why in 4 years he couldn't acquire more than 1 true starting caliber player to go with Pierce (2 if you are delusional enough to think Wally will ever stay healthy) and why he can't build a team to win a playoff series or two in a conference that is terrible.

Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix, New Jersey, and Indiana seem to have been able to make some noise in the playoffs in recent years without getting those top few picks. Why can't Danny? The truth is he took over a flawed team that really only had 2 players with any real trade value but had won 3 playoff series the previous two years. He's built an even more flawed team with only 3 players with any real trade value (although if Green doesn't improve a lot in year 3 that goes down to 2) and never won a playoff series.

 

[scout]

In your answer here is you've explained why you think Ainge couldn't have built a title team without a top pick. I still don't buy it when 2 of the 3 best teams in the NBA were not built at the top of the draft.

Even if I did buy it, does that mean you are destined to get worse without that pick like the Celtics have under Danny?

You still haven't explained why in 4 years he couldn't acquire more than 1 true starting caliber player to go with Pierce (2 if you are delusional enough to think Wally will ever stay healthy) and why he can't build a team to win a playoff series or two in a conference that is terrible.

Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix, New Jersey, and Indiana seem to have been able to make some noise in the playoffs in recent years without getting those top few picks. Why can't Danny? The truth is he took over a flawed team that really only had 2 players with any real trade value but had won 3 playoff series the previous two years. He's built an even more flawed team with only 3 players with any real trade value (although if Green doesn't improve a lot in year 3 that goes down to 2) and never won a playoff series.

Your kidding right. Detriot's glory days are over. As I mentioned, Dumars did a great job building that team without top draft choices, but no one else has won a championship without a top pick. Dallas has done well, but not championship level. The Celtics wanted Dirk over Pierce, but picked right after them. Phoenix drafted Amare Stoudemire with the ninth pick. New Jersey sucks, give me a break. Indiana, another lottery team in waiting. If Danny doesn't do anything after picking fifth, then he deserves critism. When one team wins a championship without a top pick, it doesn't mean that the Celtics GM sucks because he hasn't in his 4 years. Give me a break. BTW, playoff wins dosen't mean squat, championships is all that matters.

 

[dhamz]

If Danny doesn't do anything after picking fifth, then he deserves critism.

So is 5th the cut off? How about doing less than nothing with the 7th pick last year?

 

[Real World]

Ainge is a great judge of talent. The problem is when you don't draft in the extreme top of the draft, your not going to get all stars or even starters. Ryan Gomes, 2nd round and the 20th pick. That is pretty amazing. Tony Allen was the 25th pick of the first round (I hope your not comparing basketball to football drafts). Gerald Green was the 18th pick first round, was there a better choice using this pick? Kendrick Perkins 27th pick first round. Leon Powe, 19th pick..........2nd round. Allen Ray was not drafted. Rajon Rondo 21st pick of the first round. Delonte West 24th pick of first round. Look at other NBA rosters and then tell me how bad Danny is doing.

This pick, this year at #5, is the highest draft choice Ainge has ever had. He's drafted in the teens and 20's since he's been GM, and his players are certifiable NBA talents, with one of them a budding all-star. Now, take Chicago/Clippers/Atlanta etc. and look at how gross they've been (chicago save for the last two years) and look at where they've drafted to boot. They've constantly had top 5 picks, whereas the C's have not.

 

[Real World]

He has 2 NBA starters on his roster. Call it 2 1/2 for the 40 games a year you get out of Wally. Exactly 3 guys on the roster have any trade value for reasons that don't involve expriring contracts. His tenure has included zero playoff series wins. I'd say he is doing pretty darn bad.

You really need to understand the cap to see what Ainge has lined up the salaries the way he has. He has to resign Jefferson & Co, and by having those bigger, shorter term deals, he'll be able to sign those guys.

 

[Real World]

Nice cherry picking. Joe Dumars did a great job in selecting players to win a championship. Any other champions without a low draft choice? San Antonio/Tim Duncan; Miami Heat/Wade; Spurs/Duncan; Detroit/ none; Lakers/Bryant x3; Spurs/Duncan; Bulls/Jordanx3; Rockets/Hakkeem x2;Bulls/Jordanx3; Detroit/Thomas. The list continues with champions and the low draft picks. The highest pick was 13 with Kobe Bryant. West gambled with a draft day trade by taking a young player and obviously paid off (this was before it was vogue). Going back to your original statement of Ainge not being able to draft talent, I would suggest otherwise. With what he's had to pick with, he's done a heck of a job.

How'd Dumars do with the #2 pick a coupel of years ago.

 

[Real World]

Ainge's drafting has been better than some and worse than others. It is nothing to get overly excited about. You just have very low stadards for Ainge. When a GM has presided over 4 drafts and 2 of them have been bad, how he is amazing at the draft?

2003 was very close to a complete disaster. Banks was a horrible pick. There is no debating that. Perkins is a serviceable backup big man which is typically all you can hope for late in round 1. The problem with that in 2003 was it was a very deep draft and the two guys picked right after Perk were Barbosa and Howard who are significantly better players.

2004 was very good. Jefferson has the look of a 2nd tier all star. Allen and West while overrated by a lot of Celtics fans are guys who can crack the rotation for any team in the league. The draft was so good that 3 years later people seem to think it is the norm for Ainge drafts.

2005 is a mixed bag. Gomes was a good pick in round 2. Green who fell into their lap is still a huge question mark. So far he has flashed both the tools the had him projected as high as #3 and the lack of feel for the game that had him fall to 18. It was a no brainer pick that so far hasn't paid any dividends but could if Green ever figures it out.

2006 was awful. They used 2 #1 picks including the highest pick to date in the Ainge era to end up with 2 back-up point guards one of whom the owner has already declared will never play for the team again.

have you looked at the players drafted after the C's in those drafts?

www.nbadraft.net

Check out the history, and see who was there that is better.

 

[Pats726]

Ainge is a great judge of talent.

Even if one concedes he knows how to draft players..(and I will not concede that.) Winning an NBA championship has more to do with building a team than drafting talent...If one looks at MANY of the teams that have drafted high year after year..they have so called GOOD players but win zippo..why?? It has to do with team..and Ainge does not understand that. Why is it that the best Celtic team in years was dismantled by him because he knew better...AND he hasn''t come close since. But then again, that is why he needs to go..

 

[Real World]

Even if one concedes he knows how to draft players..(and I will not concede that.) Winning an NBA championship has more to do with building a team than drafting talent...If one looks at MANY of the teams that have drafted high year after year..they have so called GOOD players but win zippo..why?? It has to do with team..and Ainge does not understand that. Why is it that the best Celtic team in years was dismantled by him because he knew better...AND he hasn''t come close since. But then again, that is why he needs to go..

Huh? One of the best Celtics teams in years? That team was awefull. They played in the Leastern Conferance, and went to it's finals. Whoopdie doo. That team sucked, and most everyone knew that. Also, you can't build a team without talent. The talent is first necessary so you can actually aquire the peices to build the team you feel will compete. The only reason the Celtics are in the conversation for marquee players this offseason is because DA has designed it that way. Expiring contracts, picks, and most importantly young talent that he drafted.

 

[Pats726]

Huh? One of the best Celtics teams in years? That team was awefull. They played in the Leastern Conferance, and went to it's finals. Whoopdie doo. That team sucked, and most everyone knew that. Also, you can't build a team without talent. The talent is first necessary so you can actually aquire the peices to build the team you feel will compete. The only reason the Celtics are in the conversation for marquee players this offseason is because DA has designed it that way. Expiring contracts, picks, and most importantly young talent that he drafted.

You are like Ainge.. someone who has NO idea what a team is made of... awful..?? Better than the crap Ainge has thrown out ten fold..It's idiots like you who have no perspective at all about this team...If that team was awful and sucked..then what do you call ALL the years under Ainge?? Nothing CLOSE to what was there pal...Go licj AInge's shoes some more..he'll love it. What has Ainge done? NOTHING..the team is NO CLOSER..but you wouldn't know the difference anyway..keep following them down the losing path...I don't waste my time...as long as Ainge is there teh Green will be irrelevant

 

[VJCPatriot]

I don't believe in a curse.
The Celtics have been plagued by bad management over the past decade however. Wallace, Gaston, Pitino. Do those names ring a bell?
Ainge and Doc have yet to improve the Celtics fortune, but at least Wallace is gone now.

 

[scout]

You are like Ainge.. someone who has NO idea what a team is made of... awful..?? Better than the crap Ainge has thrown out ten fold..It's idiots like you who have no perspective at all about this team...If that team was awful and sucked..then what do you call ALL the years under Ainge?? Nothing CLOSE to what was there pal...Go licj AInge's shoes some more..he'll love it. What has Ainge done? NOTHING..the team is NO CLOSER..but you wouldn't know the difference anyway..keep following them down the losing path...I don't waste my time...as long as Ainge is there teh Green will be irrelevant

Good, I guess you won't be posting here anymore.

 

[Pats726]

Good, I guess you won't be posting here anymore.

Fans that support Ainge just encourage the crap the Green have become..welcome to the East version of the Clippers..total losers!! Still waiting for Ainge to show something..so far he's as bad as Pitino..disgracing what was once a championship franchise...

 

[JackPMiller]

It will never happen, but if I were the GM of the Celtics, and I was allowed to make the deals, drafts, etc., the Celtics would be in the finals within 5 years.

But I doubt I will get a call from anyone in the NBA, and I have stated that it is hard to expalin the salary cap thing, but I know it, but as I said, can't explain it, and I know alot of the guys in the NBA as well.

Just wanted to throw that out. So, if I see I want JackPMiller from Reading, PA as the new GM signs at the Garden, then maybe that will get thier attention.