OT: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Think about it this way: what kind of fan would, upon the Jets getting Holmes, immediately feel the need to go and register "A Dark Day in NE" and spam our forums all throughout his 'work' day? At best, he's a petty kid who still hasn't figured out that the next SB won in April will be the first. More likely, he's a certified basement-dweller with a massive inferiority complex.

I thought his forum name here was referring to a cloudy and rainy looking day in Nebraska where he lives on a farm with a job as a corn picker...thats what I thought :snob:

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Oh it was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek... one of those instances where the listed numbers bear no correlation to reality (i.e. Vince Wilfork being listed at 325 lbs).

My bad..... I completely missed where you were going with it.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Are the Jets trying to be the new Raiders and pick up every malcontent knucklehead they can?

With all the talk of leadership around here, I have to wonder where the leadership will come from on the Jets?

WR: Braylon isn't a leader and clearly has done nothing over his career to improve his drops. Holmes no longer has Hines Ward to kick him in the ass on the field and in the locker room. Not to mention he likes to walk a line that can lead him right to a jail cell at any moment.

RB: Let a team first guy and a leader walk. Roll the dice that a 2nd year player can carry the load. Then bring in a selfish POS who can't get out of his own way, hasn't played well in a cold weather game since 2006 and expect him to help.

QB: Odds are that Sanchez will improve in his 2nd year, but by how much? Only time will tell but I don't think it is as much as the Jets will need for them to be as good as many folks want think they will be.

How about leadership in the secondary? Does Pool come in and take over for Rhodes both on the field and in the locker room? Is Revis a leader already in a young secondary? Who keeps Cromartie in check? And is it not obvious that the two big trades they made were for players with a ton of off field baggage? They took other team's headache's.

Call me skeptical!

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Mo is still living in the world of 2001-2007,I guess no one has told him its 3 years later - This team is still trying to pick up the pieces of losing so many championship vets and starting players who were a valuable part of this team and have yet to be replaced both on the field and in the locker room

...its hard when you are a diehard homer like Mo and others here to face reality,a team that has been on top for so long will decend for at least a little while - no team stays on top forever .....this team is in a partial rebuilding phase and probably a few years away from maybe building back up a championship caliber team if they can hit on some draft picks.

While I am not saying winning the AFC East is impossible for the Pats because they are still defending champs,the truth is the other teams are quickly catching up to the Pats and the notion that the Jets could potentially take over the reigns of the East seems to be going in one ear and out the other to our resident homers who continue to look back at 40 years of futility for the Jets and see no possibility of turnaround. - people were saying the same similar things about the Pats from 1988-1994 before Parcells brought a winning atttiude here.

When did 2008 become a failure? After that season, everyone considered it a success and dumb luck that the Pats could go 11-5 without Brady and not make the playoffs. You take the 2003 and 2004 team and take Brady from it, would you expect 14-2 seasons and Super Bowl titles? Considering the situation of losing your franchise, HOF QB in the first quarter of the first game and replacing him with a guy who hadn't started in high school and a year later people are already questioning if he was just a product of the Pats' system, I consider 2008 a qualified success. if the Pats had Brady all of that season, they might have finished the job they were unable to do in 2007 and got that fourth title especially since there was no truly dominant team that year.

Yes, 2009 was a disapointment based on the hopes. But they still did go 10-6 and won the AFC East while turning over a lot of positions and trying to get younger. The trend could continue to go down due to lack of talent or the Pats could rebound with a lot of the young players emerging. I think it is silly to doubt Belichick until he actually fails and I am not talking the overinflated expectations the Pats fans have where any season not ending with a Super Bowl ring is a failure, but in real NFL terms.

The Jets could have past the Pats this offseason. We have heard this story before though with the ending being the talks of the Pats' demise was overstated. Granted it will happen some day.

I still think until Belichick actually fails (and he hasn't really done that yet since he hasn't had less than 10 wins in a season since 2002) and the Pats are bad back-to-back years, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't consider 2008 a failure because they lost Brady for the season and most people thought they would be lucky to go 8-8.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

When did 2008 become a failure? After that season, everyone considered it a success and dumb luck that the Pats could go 11-5 without Brady and not make the playoffs. You take the 2003 and 2004 team and take Brady from it, would you expect 14-2 seasons and Super Bowl titles? Considering the situation of losing your franchise, HOF QB in the first quarter of the first game and replacing him with a guy who hadn't started in high school and a year later people are already questioning if he was just a product of the Pats' system, I consider 2008 a qualified success. if the Pats had Brady all of that season, they might have finished the job they were unable to do in 2007 and got that fourth title especially since there was no truly dominant team that year.

Yes, 2009 was a disapointment based on the hopes. But they still did go 10-6 and won the AFC East while turning over a lot of positions and trying to get younger. The trend could continue to go down due to lack of talent or the Pats could rebound with a lot of the young players emerging. I think it is silly to doubt Belichick until he actually fails and I am not talking the overinflated expectations the Pats fans have where any season not ending with a Super Bowl ring is a failure, but in real NFL terms.

The Jets could have past the Pats this offseason. We have heard this story before though with the ending being the talks of the Pats' demise was overstated. Granted it will happen some day.

I still think until Belichick actually fails (and he hasn't really done that yet since he hasn't had less than 10 wins in a season since 2002) and the Pats are bad back-to-back years, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't consider 2008 a failure because they lost Brady for the season and most people thought they would be lucky to go 8-8.

2008 was not horrible other than Brady going down, but we must remember this team had some good locker room guys and chemistry to handle the loss of the franchise QB in 2008 - Now the team must strive to find locker room chemistry and on the field,a blind man could see that was missing last season and I think stuff like Chemistry is not easy to obtain overnight,everyone must be on the same page - to want to win over anything else and these new guys we obtain in this years draft will be looking for that one veteran guy in the locker room to help them transition to the pros easier,Who will step up?,I have no idea.

Question is - What would the record of the Pats had been last season if Brady had gone down in game one of the 09 season and with no championship veterans to hold the team up?,I bet it would have been quite
ugly.

Right now the Jets are loading up on troubled and displaced players because I think that they think they have that locker room chemistry that the Patriots had years ago and that they could make a troubled player into a great addition with guidance from some vets who hold SB rings...and the Jets I believe have almost as many players on thier team with SB rings as the Pats do to help with that.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

That does make me wonder....Do the Jets now have a team with players who have won a SB more than the Pats now?.....if they do its one wacky thing

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

...its hard when you are a diehard homer like Mo and others here to face reality,a team that has been on top for so long will decend for at least a little while - no team stays on top forever .....this team is in a partial rebuilding phase and probably a few years away from maybe building back up a championship caliber team if they can hit on some draft picks.

Kraft has owned the team for a little more than 15 years. Longest stretch between Super Bowl appearances during that time? 4 years...SB 32-35. Three different core teams were involved (1996, 2001-2004, 2007) with Belichick being the only constant. In fact, Belichick has been involved with the Patriots for 11 years, resulting in 8 division titles, 5 conference championships and 3 titles. The Pats have been about even money to get to the Super Bowl with Belichick on staff.

This is becoming the 4th core team under Belichick, so any SB appearances after this year will be primarily with players not involved with the 2007 team. How many of the things being said now were also said during 2000, 2002, 2005-2006? I still consider the Patriots an elite team...just not one that can overcome tough breaks and a rash of injuries like the 2003-2004 teams could.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Are the Jets trying to be the new Raiders and pick up every malcontent knucklehead they can?

With all the talk of leadership around here, I have to wonder where the leadership will come from on the Jets?

WR: Braylon isn't a leader and clearly has done nothing over his career to improve his drops. Holmes no longer has Hines Ward to kick him in the ass on the field and in the locker room. Not to mention he likes to walk a line that can lead him right to a jail cell at any moment.

RB: Let a team first guy and a leader walk. Roll the dice that a 2nd year player can carry the load. Then bring in a selfish POS who can't get out of his own way, hasn't played well in a cold weather game since 2006 and expect him to help.

QB: Odds are that Sanchez will improve in his 2nd year, but by how much? Only time will tell but I don't think it is as much as the Jets will need for them to be as good as many folks want think they will be.

How about leadership in the secondary? Does Pool come in and take over for Rhodes both on the field and in the locker room? Is Revis a leader already in a young secondary? Who keeps Cromartie in check? And is it not obvious that the two big trades they made were for players with a ton of off field baggage? They took other team's headache's.

Call me skeptical!

Sorry, the critical elitists around here would call you a pathetic homer... Don't you know the quick fix formula for success in the NFL is collecting troubled, underperforming or egotistical talent?

 

[Gunnails]

Thanks for your post. Quality Jets posters like Gunnails are disconcerting, because they upset the natural order of the universe. They are not supposed to exist. It gives me hope when Jets fans show their normal tendencies towards the ridiculous with posts like yours.

=========================================================

LOL, Deus finds me upsetting, it's all good, I love the NFL.

What a nice day for a Monday.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Kraft has owned the team for a little more than 15 years. Longest stretch between Super Bowl appearances during that time? 4 years...SB 32-35. Three different core teams were involved (1996, 2001-2004, 2007) with Belichick being the only constant. In fact, Belichick has been involved with the Patriots for 11 years, resulting in 8 division titles, 5 conference championships and 3 titles. The Pats have been about even money to get to the Super Bowl with Belichick on staff.

This is becoming the 4th core team under Belichick, so any SB appearances after this year will be primarily with players not involved with the 2007 team. How many of the things being said now were also said during 2000, 2002, 2005-2006? I still consider the Patriots an elite team...just not one that can overcome tough breaks and a rash of injuries like the 2003-2004 teams could.

While I understand your response,the question lies....Who will replace the likes of Bruschi,Vrabel,Harrison,Seymour and others who are no longer here in the very near future?....Guys like that are rare and don't grow on trees once they leave..that really shows you how most teams of one decade have so much trouble trying to replace those key guys in the next decade and it shows in decline of elite status,only the 49ers were able to keep going into the next decade because they were fortunate to have backup QBs like Steve Young,a never old Jerry Rice and a rookie named Terrell Owens among others.

Its a extremely hard task to remain competitive year after year for one decade let alone two which is even tougher..what we all hope here for the Pats to do this decade is very rare in a league which has not only a cap but lots of competition in trying to copycat success- its not going to be easy.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

BTW, it seems that my immediate thought on this trade--that in addition to it just being a no-brainer value-wise, it's pretty much a punt on the Braylon Edwards trade--doesn't seem to be shared by anyone else? Am I missing a connection, or imaging one where there is none?

Also, has anyone seen David Clowney's Twitter in the last day? I think someone might have to talk him down off a ledge:

"Lord what am I doing wrong"
about 14 hours ago via Echofon

"I know this is a test,.. But God never puts you thru anything you can't handle. I trust you Lord"
about 13 hours ago via Echofon

Clowney needs to reassess. Obviously the Lord is a Patriots fan.

 

[lostjumper]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Well, this will certainly make Hard Knocks interesting. It's obvious the Jets are going for it all this year. There's a small chance that the gravitational pull from Rex Ryan's gut brings all these guys together and they have a great season. I think there's a bigger chance Braylon Edwards, Holmes, and Cromartie go out to a strip club to "make it rain" and end up in a gun battle.

 

[Ring 6]

has anyone posted this yet?

Hard Knocks should be epic this year.

Did Santonio Holmes seriously write that on Twitter? If Goddell sees that, he will be suspended at once.

 

[Deus Irae]

=========================================================

LOL, Deus finds me upsetting, it's all good, I love the NFL.

What a nice day for a Monday.

Sure...... just rub it in.


Hey, your team's made some interesting moves this offseason and with the talk being that a lot of talented older players could get the axe in the months after the draft, the Jets will be able to fill in depth positions behind the starters if they are willing to spend the cash.

What's good for you as a fan is that, with the need to generate demand for those insane PSLs, the team will probably be willing to fork out a lot of cash to sign veterans to short term deals.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

and the Jets I believe have almost as many players on thier team with SB rings as the Pats do to help with that.

Holmes, Faneca and Woody. That is the locker room leadership that will be holding everything together? Really? And your contention is even worse when one of the "guys with rings" is also one of the malcontents.

Brady, Faulk, Light, Neal, Koppen, Patten, Warren, Wilfork, TBC were all on the 2004 team. Even AD and Bruce Davis have rings. Barking up the wrong tree with this one I'm afraid.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did Santonio Holmes seriously write that on Twitter? If Goddell sees that, he will be suspended at once.

League makes Santonio suspension official | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[patsinthesnow]

I've thought this over and have changed my mind.

The Jets are becoming the Dallas Cowboys, while the Patriots are going via the draft and are aiming for max chemistry.

Just remember,BB and Brady outweigh the Jets enough to still beat them head on.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Holmes, Faneca and Woody. That is the locker room leadership that will be holding everything together? Really? And your contention is even worse when one of the "guys with rings" is also one of the malcontents.

Brady, Faulk, Light, Neal, Koppen, Patten, Warren, Wilfork, TBC were all on the 2004 team. Even AD and Bruce Davis have rings. Barking up the wrong tree with this one I'm afraid.

Thats why I asked but glad we have more,was too lazy to check

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

While I understand your response,the question lies....Who will replace the likes of Bruschi,Vrabel,Harrison,Seymour and others who are no longer here in the very near future?....Guys like that are rare and don't grow on trees once they leave..that really shows you how most teams of one decade have so much trouble trying to replace those key guys in the next decade and it shows in decline of elite status,only the 49ers were able to keep going into the next decade because they were fortunate to have backup QBs like Steve Young,a never old Jerry Rice and a rookie named Terrell Owens among others.

Its a extremely hard task to remain competitive year after year for one decade let alone two which is even tougher..what we all hope here for the Pats to do this decade is very rare in a league which has not only a cap but lots of competition in trying to copycat success- its not going to be easy.

I suppose the true question here is whether the success of the franchsie has been based upon

A) A handful of players who are irreplaceable or
B) The philosophy, approach, talent, coaching ablity, structure and stability of the organization
I have always felt it was (B) but it appears you feel it is (A)

Perhaps that is the divide between the 'homers' and the 'Chicken Littles' whether you believe the success is by design or good fortune, which also leads to the second question of whether you feel the Patriots have had sustained 'success' for 10 years, or a 4 year run followed by 5 years of disappointment.

It would seem obvious why the Chicken Littles are what they are if they believe we won 3 in 4 years because we had the best players, and the last 5 years have been failure because there have been no rings, while the the 'homers' apparently see a relatively seamless 10 year run where no matter how good you are winning a SB is defying the odds and cant be expected to happen every year.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I suppose the true question here is whether the success of the franchsie has been based upon

A) A handful of players who are irreplaceable or
B) The philosophy, approach, talent, coaching ablity, structure and stability of the organization
I have always felt it was (B) but it appears you feel it is (A)

Perhaps that is the divide between the 'homers' and the 'Chicken Littles' whether you believe the success is by design or good fortune, which also leads to the second question of whether you feel the Patriots have had sustained 'success' for 10 years, or a 4 year run followed by 5 years of disappointment.

It would seem obvious why the Chicken Littles are what they are if they believe we won 3 in 4 years because we had the best players, and the last 5 years have been failure because there have been no rings, while the the 'homers' apparently see a relatively seamless 10 year run where no matter how good you are winning a SB is defying the odds and cant be expected to happen every year.

Put me in the sustained success over ten years category and not just sustained but defined.