OT: Saints caught in a scandal that will stain the franchise (link)

[XLIX]

If schools are covering up kids being abused then yes we should end that. Covering up sexual abuse is bad. But we focus on boogeymen that don’t exist.

Seems to me the boogeymen exist in many, many aspects of our society. But certain institutions get protected by the media more than others.

 

[Froob]

Seems to me the boogeymen exist in many, many aspects of our society. But certain institutions get protected by the media more than others.

I agree, one I already mentioned. You'd be crazy to let your kid go to these churches unsupervised. It's really a shame, because religion can be such a special thing for people and this type of abuse happens over and over again. It's disgusting. Saints should be forced to sell, but they probably won't.

 

[XLIX]

I agree, one I already mentioned. You'd be crazy to let your kid go to these churches unsupervised. It's really a shame, because religion can be such a special thing for people and this type of abuse happens over and over again. It's disgusting.

If you think it is disgusting in the churches, just wait until you open your eyes and discover how widespread it is in the schools.

Saints should be forced to sell, but they probably won't.

Why should the Saints be forced to sell? There is nothing here that even remotely rises to that level of punishment.*

*Based on what has come out so far. If something new comes out, I 100% reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[Froob]

If you think it is disgusting in the churches, just wait until you open your eyes and discover how widespread it is in the schools.

Why should the Saints be forced to sell? There is nothing here that even remotely rises to that level of punishment.*

*Based on what has come out so far. If something new comes out, I 100% reserve the right to change my mind.

If the saints are have found to help the church cover up sexual abuse, that is a big big deal and the nfl and fbi should get to the bottom of it.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

If the saints are have found to help the church cover up sexual abuse, that is a big big deal and the nfl and fbi should get to the bottom of it.

Provided it is actually a cover-up, and not just removing names of unconfirmed alleged predators, we're in total agreement. As I hope most rational people are

 

[Boogs]

I agree, one I already mentioned. You'd be crazy to let your kid go to these churches unsupervised. It's really a shame, because religion can be such a special thing for people and this type of abuse happens over and over again. It's disgusting. Saints should be forced to sell, but they probably won't.

Yeah, you've got to watch your kids everywhere and even in the church. Don't let your kid go to the restroom alone under a certain age. You don't really know most people that well. And I'm not a fan of youth groups anymore. It's not a great idea to have an unmarried 23 year old male or female fresh out of Christian College leading a group of 16 years olds of the opposite sex. It's a recipe for disaster

 

[XLIX]

If the saints are have found to help the church cover up sexual abuse, that is a big big deal and the nfl and fbi should get to the bottom of it.

Did you even read the article, or did you just read the headlines and fly off the handle?

Your problem is there is nothing in the article(s) suggesting the Saints did any such thing. They aren't even being accused of doing such a thing so basically you're presuming they are guilty of an accusation you made up out of thin air.

As I said above if something new comes out I reserve the right to change my mind, but the notion that based on what has been reported the "Saints should be forced to sell" is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

The point of disagreement is whether covering up child sexual assault is actually what is happening. Everyone is in agreement that child sexual abuse, and covering it up, is bad

You could argue that spinning it with spinmeisters and removing some names from the list pre publicly releasing it is a pretty strong presumption of a coverup.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Did you even read the article, or did you just read the headlines and fly off the handle?

Your problem is there is nothing in the article(s) suggesting the Saints did any such thing. They aren't even being accused of doing such a thing so basically you're presuming they are guilty of an accusation you made up out of thin air.

As I said above if something new comes out I reserve the right to change my mind, but the notion that based on what has been reported the "Saints should be forced to sell" is beyond ridiculous.

From the article I linked,
>>>>>>Saints executives were so involved in the church’s damage control that a team spokesman briefed his boss on a 2018 call with the city’s top prosecutor hours before the church released a list of clergymen accused of abuse. The call, the spokesman said, “allowed us to take certain people off” the list.


— Team officials were among the first people outside the church to view that list, a carefully curated, yet undercounted roster of suspected pedophiles.

— The team’s president, Dennis Lauscha, drafted more than a dozen questions that Archbishop Gregory Aymond should be prepared to answer as he faced reporters.

— The Saints’ senior vice president of communications, Greg Bensel, provided fly-on-the-wall updates to Lauscha about local media interviews, suggesting church and team leaders were all on the same team. “He is doing well,” Bensel wrote as the archbishop told reporters the church was committed to addressing the crisis. “That is our message,” Bensel added, “that we will not stop here today.<<<<<
That is way more than the "minimal" contact Saints originally claimed.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

You could argue that spinning it with spinmeisters and removing some names from the list pre publicly releasing it is a pretty strong presumption of a coverup.

I would have to know facts. I can't imagine the Saints looking at a list and going "No, take this guy off of it and this guy too," and the Church, who is already in hot water, going "Okay yeah he did something but for you guys we'll sweep it under the rug." It just doesn't quite make sense to me. Only thing that would make sense is advising the Church not to release names unless you're totally certain about them. But even then, sadly the Church isn't new to these scandals and should know the "standard procedure" on how to handle this.

I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of it and don't really want to jump to the conclusion that the Saints are helping hide pedophiles.

 

[XLIX]

From the article I linked,

There is nothing in there which contradicts anything I said.

As I stated: The individual to whom I responded was just casually assuming the Saints were guilty of a crime which they are not even being accused of. Right now there is nothing which rises to the level of being forced to sell the team.

I'll be happy to reevaluate if something new comes out but for now, my statement stands.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

There is nothing in there which contradicts anything I said.

As I stated: The individual to whom I responded was just casually assuming the Saints were guilty of a crime which they are not even being accused of. Right now there is nothing which rises to the level of being forced to sell the team.

I'll be happy to reevaluate if something new comes out but for now, my statement stands.

I never said they were guilty of a crime, but rather, circling the wagons in a company town. It is akin to the Sandusky scandal where Penn State is isolated and insulated and dare I say "cult like" I don't think it could have happened at BC, Villanova or Georgetown as they are located in big cities, not a company town. In many respects, New Orleans is a company town, with everyone related to one another or looking for others interests as we saw here with Judge, Saints PR and others joining together to "spin" it. Is it a coverup? Maybe not but it was a well choreographed effort to minimize damage and fallout. The Saints personnel involved have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they were proud of their actions.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Yeah, you've got to watch your kids everywhere and even in the church. Don't let your kid go to the restroom alone under a certain age. You don't really know most people that well. And I'm not a fan of youth groups anymore. It's not a great idea to have an unmarried 23 year old male or female fresh out of Christian College leading a group of 16 years olds of the opposite sex. It's a recipe for disaster

When I was in Catholic school my father signed me up to be an altar boy, didn't want to but Dad did. We had a priest that all the parents thought was great with kids. A few years after he left for another Parish, he was accused of being one of the abusers. My father freaked out, I told him he never did or tried anything with me, they prey on the kids with broken families and outcasts.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

bounty gate and defile gate....not good.

 

[XLIX]

I never said they were guilty of a crime, but rather, circling the wagons in a company town. It is akin to the Sandusky scandal where Penn State is isolated and insulated and dare I say "cult like"

No it is not akin to the Sandusky scandal. That was a scandal where there was indeed a coverup. People knew children were being molested and reported it to the head football coach and not, like, you know, the authorities.

I don't think it could have happened at BC, Villanova or Georgetown as they are located in big cities,

I really don't know what you are saying could not have happened in those locations. Sexual assault of minors, and covering it up, can (and does) happen anywhere.... from the smallest towns to the biggest cities.

 

[catent]

ha-ha! MY side didn't do it! yes! victory!

average lib take

The post you're quoting wasn't invented in a vacuum; they're responding to the frequent baseless claims from certain political activists suggesting transsexual individuals are sexual predators and accommodating them in society puts people (particularly children) at risk of being abused by transsexuals.

This prejudice happens despite a dearth of evidence suggesting transsexual individuals commit sexual abuse at rates higher than the average population, and despite a mountain of evidence showing plenty of non-transsexual people committing acts of sexual abuse.

Heck, if you want to realize how ridiculous of a discussion the transsexual bathroom thing is, just think about the fact that straight men can also sexually abuse women in bathrooms. It's not as if there is some magical barrier that automatically prevents anyone with a penis from entering a women's bathroom, but once they're declared as trans, they're able to bypass this magical penis barrier ... it's a ****ing room with a door, anyone (including men), with any intention, can enter, trans or not.

So, yeah, if you have some folks loudly (and wrongly) condemning an entire demographic of people without any good evidence, pointing the finger at them, all too often ignoring those actually committing acts of abuse, it's only fair (and expected) to point out the wrongful prejudice.

I agree with your post stating this is fundamentally a human issue; humans of all types can be flawed and do bad things, that's absolutely correct. I wish the folks demonizing transsexual people realized this.

 

[lancerman]

The post you're quoting wasn't invented in a vacuum; they're responding to the frequent baseless claims from certain political activists suggesting transsexual individuals are sexual predators and accommodating them in society puts people (particularly children) at risk of being abused by transsexuals.

This prejudice happens despite a dearth of evidence suggesting transsexual individuals commit sexual abuse at rates higher than the average population, and despite a mountain of evidence showing plenty of non-transsexual people committing acts of sexual abuse.

Heck, if you want to realize how ridiculous of a discussion the transsexual bathroom thing is, just think about the fact that straight men can also sexually abuse women in bathrooms. It's not as if there is some magical barrier that automatically prevents anyone with a penis from entering a women's bathroom, but once they're declared as trans, they're able to bypass this magical penis barrier ... it's a ****ing room with a door, anyone (including men), with any intention, can enter, trans or not.

So, yeah, if you have some folks loudly (and wrongly) condemning an entire demographic of people without any good evidence, pointing the finger at them, all too often ignoring those actually committing acts of abuse, it's only fair (and expected) to point out the wrongful prejudice.

I agree with your post stating this is fundamentally a human issue; humans of all types can be flawed and do bad things, that's absolutely correct. I wish the folks demonizing transsexual people realized this.

The other wrinkle with this whole thing is that a trans person is statistically more likely to get assaulted or killed in a bathroom than absolutely anybody else that could be in that bathroom by virtually every data point yet they are constantly villainized as some threat.

But overall you are spot on. The person making that post was making a known joke on the commentary that one of the groups that consistently gets accused of pedophilia is almost never at the center of these and that the people making them out to be boogeyman are often quiet or ideologically aligned with some of the groups that are constantly associated with pedophiles in a very documented way.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

The post you're quoting wasn't invented in a vacuum; they're responding to the frequent baseless claims from certain political activists suggesting transsexual individuals are sexual predators and accommodating them in society puts people (particularly children) at risk of being abused by transsexuals.

This prejudice happens despite a dearth of evidence suggesting transsexual individuals commit sexual abuse at rates higher than the average population, and despite a mountain of evidence showing plenty of non-transsexual people committing acts of sexual abuse.

Heck, if you want to realize how ridiculous of a discussion the transsexual bathroom thing is, just think about the fact that straight men can also sexually abuse women in bathrooms. It's not as if there is some magical barrier that automatically prevents anyone with a penis from entering a women's bathroom, but once they're declared as trans, they're able to bypass this magical penis barrier ... it's a ****ing room with a door, anyone (including men), with any intention, can enter, trans or not.

So, yeah, if you have some folks loudly (and wrongly) condemning an entire demographic of people without any good evidence, pointing the finger at them, all too often ignoring those actually committing acts of abuse, it's only fair (and expected) to point out the wrongful prejudice.

I agree with your post stating this is fundamentally a human issue; humans of all types can be flawed and do bad things, that's absolutely correct. I wish the folks demonizing transsexual people realized this.

It is never the time for whatabout gotchas everytime something horrible happens but people whose lives revolve around politics will find a way to make it so. I can find an example of drag queen pedophiles and do the same thing. But what would be the point if the horror is all the same? To grandstand? To celebrate? Thats what that post does. Its celebrating that, yes, the offender is from the side I don't like! Forget the kids! It wasnt a man dressed as a woman who did it! Its pathetic and cowardly

 

[jmt57]

I just don't understand why they would do that.

This.

I keep coming back to that same exact question: why would the Saints decide it was a good idea to help the church in this matter?


It is true that the Saints have not been accused or charged with being an accessory after the fact. That's not the point.

All I can see is a lot of deflection and whataboutism from their defenders.

 

[lancerman]

It is never the time for whatabout gotchas everytime something horrible happens but people whose lives revolve around politics will find a way to make it so. I can find an example of drag queen pedophiles and do the same thing. But what would be the point if the horror is all the same? To grandstand? To celebrate? Thats what that post does. Its celebrating that, yes, the offender is from the side I don't like! Forget the kids! It wasnt a man dressed as a woman who did it! Its pathetic and cowardly

Because it isn't "all the same".

I'm sure you could find someone from any group that did something bad when the numbers are big enough. It's another thing entirely to mass label a group predators when they are statistically not and are also the biggest victims and then selectively ignore or bend over backwards to give groups that have a demonstrable track record a pass or benefit of the doubt because you view them more as "your side".

Right now one of the most forceful posters in this thread is someone who

1. Is giving the accused priests in the article the benefit of the doubt on this subject.
2. Had a whole thread where he gave a kicker who multiple massage therapists accused with receipts the benefit of the doubts and said his victims should not come forward.
3. AND THEN in the face of all that is willing to just make blanket statements like "oh well schools and other businesses would probably be just as bad as the Catholic Church and they only aren't because of media conspiracy".

Like yeah, there's nothing there when a person is bending over backwards in the name of plausible deniability and then freely makes accusations out of nowhere with nothing to back then up because he doesn't like that particular institution group. Also that same poster was the one who cried for mod help when the conversation didn't go his way.