OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Tony2046]

I'm glad he got to see his son win the championship. RIP

 

[Tony2046]

Balsa wood?

 

[Deus Irae]

Balsa wood?

According to the numbers, he's working with 98 pounds there.

 

[amfootball]

His career is a paradox.

It really is. He is so hard to categorize IMO.
He is great no doubt but 6 finals losses. He has also played during the softest era in the NBA. If he played in the 80s or 90s, I don't think he wins any titles.

 

[Deus Irae]

It really is. He is so hard to categorize IMO.
He is great no doubt but 6 finals losses. He has also played during the softest era in the NBA. If he played in the 80s or 90s, I don't think he wins any titles.

He also got to those finals because he created cherry picked teams.

Imagine how many titles Bird and McHale could have won by teaming up with, say, Magic and Kareem....

 

[VectorPrime]

He also got to those finals because he created cherry picked teams.

Imagine how many titles Bird and McHale could have won by teaming up with, say, Magic and Kareem....

Wade and Bosch were not the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league.

Durrant going to the Warriors is the only thing comparable to Magic playing with Bird.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The other way he’s a paradox: so dominant on paper and by advanced metrics…but perception is that he lacks the killer instinct of Jordan, Kobe, etc. I think it’s partially true.

Some of those Cleveland teams were dumpster fires though…no business being in the Finals. I think he’s actually better as a guy that drags terrible teams into contention than a guy that can pair with other stars to create a truly dominant team. Only 55+ wins five times and 60+ wins two times. His teams tend to have similar records whether it’s a garbage cast or star studded cast. Weird.

Also, I’ve never seen his team play great team basketball and look fluid. It always looks forced, despite that he’s not a ball hog. As I said, a paradox.

 

[VectorPrime]

Lebron is a victim of being punished more by history for losing in a championship round rather than losing earlier. It took Brady winning his fifth to finally break the Montana fanboys.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wade and Bosch were not the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league.

Durrant going to the Warriors is the only thing comparable to Magic playing with Bird.

Wade was the arguably the MVP in 2009. James joined the team in 2010.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lebron is a victim of being punished more by history for losing in a championship round rather than losing earlier. It took Brady winning his fifth to finally break the Montana fanboys.

LeBron's a victim of his own mouth, and his quitting on his team in the playoffs, more than once. He's a victim of knifing his teams in the back to go play with teams of his own creation elsewhere. He's a victim of people seeing him get more ******** fouls than anyone in the history of the game. He's a victim of being a whiny player (And Jason Tatum's learned this tactic all too well). He's a victim of going through the easier conference and then getting taken out in the finals.


In short, LeBron's not a victim. He's just a player who's great, but not quite as great as the hype.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lebron is a victim of being punished more by history for losing in a championship round rather than losing earlier. It took Brady winning his fifth to finally break the Montana fanboys.

Maybe some use that dumb argument. I don’t. But the East was such a cakewalk most years that I don’t give him too much credit for the appearance either.

I think the Miami years are LeBron’s legacy killer. The “not one, not two, not three” thing was so obnoxious and while they won two, no one felt like he delivered at the level he should have after selling out to join a super team. The Mavericks series left a lasting impression of a guy too passive down the stretch. There was the should-have-been loss to the Spurs where many felt he was bailed out on Ray Allen’s 3. Then the way the Spurs wrecked them the next year and dismantled the Heatles was a bad way to go out. Meanwhile, any whining about other teams being too stacked loses its credibility when he attempted to build three super teams himself.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Imagine in 2016 someone tells you that five years from now, this will be a real headline and not satire:

 

[1960Pats]

He also got to those finals because he created cherry picked teams.

Imagine how many titles Bird and McHale could have won by teaming up with, say, Magic and Kareem....

That's a great point.

Bird and Magic together would be scary great and then throw in McHale and Kareem. Yikes!

Would you root for that stacked team?

 

[1960Pats]

Imagine in 2016 someone tells you that five years from now, this will be a real headline and not satire:

I laugh and then I cry.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's a great point.

Bird and Magic together would be scary great and then throw in McHale and Kareem. Yikes!

Would you root for that stacked team?

If they were the Celtics? Absolutely.
If they were the Lakers? Absolutely not.
If they were some random (non-Philly) team, and I'd seen Bird/McHale as Celtics for a couple of years first? Probably. It would depend on how bad the split from Boston had been.

 

[amfootball]

Maybe some use that dumb argument. I don’t. But the East was such a cakewalk most years that I don’t give him too much credit for the appearance either.

I think the Miami years are LeBron’s legacy killer. The “not one, not two, not three” thing was so obnoxious and while they won two, no one felt like he delivered at the level he should have after selling out to join a super team. The Mavericks series left a lasting impression of a guy too passive down the stretch. There was the should-have-been loss to the Spurs where many felt he was bailed out on Ray Allen’s 3. Then the way the Spurs wrecked them the next year and dismantled the Heatles was a bad way to go out. Meanwhile, any whining about other teams being too stacked loses its credibility when he attempted to build three super teams himself.

If it wasn't for Covid last year giving him and the Lakers a 2 month break in the middle of the regular season, he is bounced from the West before the Finals. Basically in 3 years in the West he has missed the playoffs, had the Covid run, bounced in first round this year. To your point, I give him very little credit for his runs to the Finals when he was in the East. His teams never had any real flow because he was so focused on NOT being Jordan that he would not just take the ball and score and win the game(s). That is what is so irksome about him. He totally could be THAT guy but he does not want to be because Jordan is rammed so far up his head he can't see straight.

BTW, what about his statement on the Shop when he said he is the all time GOAT over Brady because he plays offense and defense. LOL, LOL, LOL.
I think you actually have to be the consensus GOAT in your own sport before you can be the GOAT over the undisputed GOAT of football. The guy is such a buffoon. Brady actually DID surpass Michael which makes Lebron's take even more amusing.

 

[carmelo15]

LeBron's a victim of his own mouth, and his quitting on his team in the playoffs, more than once. He's a victim of knifing his teams in the back to go play with teams of his own creation elsewhere. He's a victim of people seeing him get more ******** fouls than anyone in the history of the game. He's a victim of being a whiny player (And Jason Tatum's learned this tactic all too well). He's a victim of going through the easier conference and then getting taken out in the finals.


In short, LeBron's not a victim. He's just a player who's great, but not quite as great as the hype.

He’s a ring chaser in his prime an absolute clown

 

[carmelo15]

Man that offense last year with Howard is basically unstoppable before getting hurt the chemistry with Brady was starting to blossom

 

[Deus Irae]

Man that offense last year with Howard is basically unstoppable before getting hurt the chemistry with Brady was starting to blossom

If players can stay healthy, and Brady doesn't show some big decline, it's going to be wild just watching all the various personnel combinations. The passing attack personnel is at least 9 players deep (though Johnson would seem to be the clear #9), and that's with dismissing all but one RB as part of it.

Evans
Godwin
Brown
Miller
Johnson

Gronk
Howard
Brate

Bernard

 

[VectorPrime]

WITH HEALTH it’s one of the most stacked offenses I’ve ever seen. What are the rivals? 2013 Broncos? 2007 Pats? I feel like those two were a bit too top heavy and then it came to bite them in the ass. 2017 Pats might have been close but Edelman goes down in the preseason.