OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[1960Pats]

I think if you're making an all-time rankings list, it defeats the purpose to put five guys from the last ten years. Ten years from today, your list will look entirely different.

If you find a list of All-Time Top 10s from the year 2000, like the chart being discussed now, it will probably have in the top 10: Farve, Montana, Young, Elway, and Marino for starters and some might also include Aikman, Fouts, Kelly, or Moon on the back end.

I think if you're making an All-Time list, it should age pretty well. 10 years later, maybe one or two slots are changed; maybe there's one new player. But putting Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Manning on a list that's supposed to span 100 years is tunnel vision.

Passing stats are a very flawed measure...they might help to sort within an era only; the average QB rating now is Joe Montana's career's QB rating, which was best all-time when he retired. Championships, MVPs, All-Pro, outlier stats, legendary moments/games...I think those are all important factors.

I kept a list of the top ten clutch QBs by SI, NFLN, Bleacher Report and NFL Films from the time you're talking about.

6 QBs, Brady, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Starr & Marino made all four lists.
4 QBs, Graham, Staubach, Stabler & Young made three of the lists.
4 QBs, Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath & Manning only made one list each.
Brady and Manning were the only active QBs on the lists.
There was no mention of Favre, Brees, Aikman, Fouts, Tarkenton, Moon or Kelly on any of the lists.

 

[1960Pats]

Sorry, but that pyramid is terrible

I tried to make some changes but I had so many that it became confusing, so I had to create a spreadsheet to keep track. The fact that Vick and Stafford were even mentioned was comical.

 

[Deus Irae]

I tried to make some changes but I had so many that it became confusing, so I had to create a spreadsheet to keep track. The fact that Vick and Stafford were even mentioned was comical.

People making these lists need to avoid the "All time" part, and just go from the Super Bowl era. They screw up plenty even just with the recent QBs.

And the Vick and Stafford selections make this particular "list" laughable.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Jason Licht on Tom Brady extension: We'd like to keep this going - ProFootballTalk

Imagine keeping him longer is the goal, but right now it's to help with the cap situation to keep the band together.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady must be on a cloud 9 literally. Tampa is all in on him.

I've been trying very hard to be happy for Brady but I keep getting more frustrated instead. Bob did a very stupid thing when he let Brady get away. In the end Brady could end up lasting longer than Bill.

 

[Nehalem]

People making these lists need to avoid the "All time" part, and just go from the Super Bowl era. They screw up plenty even just with the recent QBs.

And the Vick and Stafford selections make this particular "list" laughable.

They also somehow ranked Eli Manning in the HOF tier. While putting Kurt Warner in the lower Franchise Great tier. Despite Kurt Warner literally being in the HOF.

They also have only 9 players in the top 10(or better) categories . Saving a spot for Mahomes already?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

People making these lists need to avoid the "All time" part, and just go from the Super Bowl era. They screw up plenty even just with the recent QBs.

And the Vick and Stafford selections make this particular "list" laughable.

Where's Don Majkowski?

 

[Deus Irae]

They also somehow ranked Eli Manning in the HOF tier. While putting Kurt Warner in the lower Franchise Great tier. Despite Kurt Warner literally being in the HOF.

They also have only 9 players in the top 10(or better) categories . Saving a spot for Mahomes already?

I think that only having the 9 in the "top 10" categories was to keep the pyramid balanced. It's just another example of how badly done that "list" is.

 

[1960Pats]

People making these lists need to avoid the "All time" part, and just go from the Super Bowl era. They screw up plenty even just with the recent QBs.

And the Vick and Stafford selections make this particular "list" laughable.

The problem for an older person like myself is that I've seen Unitas play and he's far better than he gets credited with being. The only QBs from the list that I didn't see play, or don't remember, are Graham, Baugh and Luckman.

There's also the SB ring factor that comes into play. I don't care how many rings some of those guys have, there's no way that many of them are as good as Marino, who never won a title. He was that good.

 

[1960Pats]

They also somehow ranked Eli Manning in the HOF tier. While putting Kurt Warner in the lower Franchise Great tier. Despite Kurt Warner literally being in the HOF.

They also have only 9 players in the top 10(or better) categories . Saving a spot for Mahomes already?

I almost took Eli off the list entirely. I was also going to move Tarkenton down two levels instead of one to make room for Warner to move up one level. I still may do that.

 

[Deus Irae]

The problem for an older person like myself is that I've seen Unitas play and he's far better than he gets credited with being. The only QBs from the list that I didn't see play, or don't remember, are Graham, Baugh and Luckman.

There's also the SB ring factor that comes into play. I don't care how many rings some of those guys have, there's no way that many of them are as good as Marino, who never won a title. He was that good.

That pyramid has too much recency bias, but Marino's not a top 8 QB. I know this gets us into dead horse territory, but the top 8 QBs are locked in:

Brady
Starr
Montana
Baugh
Graham
Unitas
Staubach
Young


CHFF got that group right (though Brady's obviously passed those that had been rated ahead of him back in 2008, and there are arguments to be made about the slotting of individuals in the 8 because of the changing nature of the game pre-SB era). The debate starts after that, IMO, with a group of players all in a slot fight starting at 9.


The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks

 

[carmelo15]

Someone tell me what this guy do before he came to the bucs? Also his numbers went down after a great 2019. I keep saying he’s a product of the bucs defensive front especially vea. I wouldn’t give him 17 million dollars.

You’re always bringing up the denver situation why does it matter he was a backup than and got better now. Yes Vea helps him with Vea he’s an all world rusher without him he’s still a top 10 rusher. Well the good news for Tampa is Vea will be there for life so why not have the line set for 4-5 years with both.

 

[Deus Irae]

I almost took Eli off the list entirely. I was also going to move Tarkenton down two levels instead of one to make room for Warner to move up one level. I still may do that.

Eli is Joe Flacco, but with two playoff runs instead of one. They even have (to this point at least) identical 84.1 QB ratings.

Eli Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Joe Flacco Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Patsfan1958]

Tom Brady left the Patriots a year ago, after 20 seasons in New England. Much has been said and written about why he left. So why not write and say some more now?

Via JoeBucsFan.com, Buccaneers quarterbacks coach Clyde Christensen peeled back the curtain a but during a visit to CBS Sports Radio.

Clyde Christensen: Tom Brady wanted to do what Peyton Manning did in Denver - ProFootballTalk

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

You’re always bringing up the denver situation why does it matter he was a backup than and got better now. Yes Vea helps him with Vea he’s an all world rusher without him he’s still a top 10 rusher. Well the good news for Tampa is Vea will be there for life so why not have the line set for 4-5 years with both.

A top 10 rusher? Let’s see him go to a d-line that’s not as potent as the Bucs and not have a guy that opens up the lanes like vea and let’s see if he’s a top 10 pass rusher. He’s not a 17 million per year player. Wouldn’t that cause you to hesitate a little that he was never a great pass rusher until he got to tampa.

 

[Nehalem]

That pyramid has too much recency bias, but Marino's not a top 8 QB. I know this gets us into dead horse territory, but the top 8 QBs are locked in:

Brady
Starr
Montana
Baugh
Graham
Unitas
Staubach
Young


CHFF got that group right (though Brady's obviously passed those that had been rated ahead of him back in 2008, and there are arguments to be made about the slotting of individuals in the 8 because of the changing nature of the game pre-SB era). The debate starts after that, IMO, with a group of players all in a slot fight starting at 9.


The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks

On Otto Graham.
"In fact, they'd go on to set a record that still stands, appearing in six straight NFL championship games from 1950 to 1955, winning three of them"

Given that the NFL only had 13 teams at the time it might be fair to compare that to Brady's 8 consecutive AFCCG, with 5 wins.

Brady has even been to 5 SBs in the last 7 years winning 4.

So at this point Tom Brady is basically matching(or exceeding) the accomplishments of mythical pre-SB-era football figures in the salary cap era

 

[carmelo15]

This is smart and I agree

 

[Deus Irae]

Bruce Arians says it should be "somewhere around June" before Tom Brady is able to fully practice after his knee surgery. Says Brady doesn't need to throw, can just "coach the **** out of" his teammates in offseason.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Brees has the gaudy passing stats. Rodgers hasn't played long enough yet but he'll probably pass him. Saw in NFL 2020 Mic'd up video how Rodgers ran to Adams after throwing his 400 TD and told him that was his 400 td, lol. He kept talking about it in the sidelines. Guy is all about his stats.

Rodgers is so obviously about his stats. Hits a short pass on 3rd and long to pad his completion %. Takes a sack to avoid messing up his pass attempts. I see it every time he plays. No wonder teammates call out his leadership. The guy is a selfish diva.


.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Two such players are left tackle Donovan Smith and center Ryan Jensen. Moving on from Smith, who has a $14.25 million hit, and Jensen, who has a $10 million hit, would leave no dead money on the cap, but it would leave the team looking for replacements in front of Tom Brady. On Wednesday, General Manager Jason Licht said he does not plan on moving forward without either player.


Licht said, via multiple reports, that the Bucs love both players and that he expects both players will remain with the team...

Buccaneers expect Ryan Jensen, Donovan Smith back next season - ProFootballTalk