OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[catent]

Every one knows he is declining as a QB yet everyone expect him to put up Mahomes number otherwise he is trash.

I don't think I've seen one, single person on this forum say Tom Brady is "trash" (now or ever).

Pretty much everyone I see who is critiquing Brady is saying, 'he's good, but no longer in the elite-of-the-elite'.

 

[moosekill]

Ariens isn’t an all world coach, he isn’t a great coach. He is an average coach. Stop blaming him for Brady having a so so year. I know you want Brady to still be BRADY, but he is 43 and set in his ways. He may still be good enough to overcome this stuff with an amazingly good team around him but probably he isn’t.

 

[Rob0729]

Say what? He threw for 348 yards and completed 3rd and 8 in the 4th quarter then converted 3rd and 10 3 straight times in OT just for Rex to punch it in. They don’t even get down there if he doesn’t do that. In crunch time, OT, in the AFCCG, if a quarterback converts 3rd and long that many times leading to the go-ahead TD to send the team to the Super Bowl, that is absolutely elite play. I didn’t mention the Rams because the whole offense, outside of Edelman, didn’t play well. But the game was sealed on an absolutely beautiful and clutch rainbow to Gronk.

Yes, the whole offense didn't play well in the Rams game including Brady.

I will give you the Chiefs' game. You are still talking about Brady playing elite for two game two years ago. You think if Brady plays elite for two more games this year, it erases the fact he has been inconsistent all year? It just re-enforces my point that Brady has lost a step and is no longer elite, but is capable of being elite again for short stretches.

Why can you not admit Brady is 43 years old and has lost a step? He is still better than most QBs in the league, but he is no longer elite. It isn't a swipe at the guy. It is a testament to the guy because being the 5th or 6th or 7th best QB in the league, where he is now, is incredible for a 43 year old QB.

 

[Rob0729]

literally just had someone post how biased the dude is vs Brady smh come on man




So Brady is calling go routes 90% of the time even though they did that last year? Was he calling plays for them last year as well? We saw them in the second half move the ball effortlessly when they went to intermediate routes and play action stuff which Brady excels at. The offense looked totally different on the second half.

Silver doesn't like Belichick. Silver became friends with Brady before Brady emerged. He isn't biased against Brady. Belichick, on the other hand.

The Bucs are not running go routes 90% of the time. If that is your premise, then you have no right to argue.

They built this team the way Brady wanted. Arians didn't want Antonio Brown. Brady did. Brady wanted Gronk. Not sure the Bucs would have traded for him if Brady didn't want it since they already had two capable TEs on the roster. Fornette was probably more Brady's want than Arians because Brady wants a RB he can throw passes to. If Brady is influencing personnel decisions, it makes sense he is influencing the play calling.

 

[Rob0729]

That game winning drive was as elite as it gets

That isn't the whole game. Yes, he played elite during stretches of that game. I wouldn't say the entire game was elite.

And don't get me wrong. He played very well for most of that game. I am not trying to say he didn't. I just wouldn't call it an elite game.

 

[RicoG]

Brady earlier in his career was quite different than towards the end of his time here. There were probable reasons - the Jimmy G threat, the SB 52 fiasco, the Guerrero situation, Deflategate (I think BB’s saying “you have to ask Tom about that” pissed Brady off more than is known). Brady was not as content here, there was more conflict, and more of it got outside the building. Brady early in his career never seemed to make waves, by the end here there were 10 and 20 footers. He was trying to globally brand himself, and the whole TB12 thing became an issue for the Pats’ training staff, and thus Belichick. Brady was constantly in the news. Deflategate went on for 2 years. It isn’t necessarily anyone’s fault, but Brady became a megastar, and drama follows megastars. It has continued in Tampa - where Arians seems weirdly invested in trying to needle Brady in public.

I don't see it in a negative light at all. It is understandable considering what he has done, his age, and his experience.

Generally, when your young you follow orders. When you have a family you start to man up and want to stand on your on two feet with less interference.

When you're a middle age person with success, experience, money, you consider yourself an equal or close to it to even your bosses. That is where Brady is at. He is more than just a player, he also wants and has enfluences on the coaches and the GM.

I agree in NE that TB wanted more say and I think he deserved it, but BB runs a tight ship and does it his way. He's a stubborn GOAT as we saw with the Malcolm Butler benching.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't think I've seen one, single person on this forum say Tom Brady is "trash" (now or ever).

Pretty much everyone I see who is critiquing Brady is saying, 'he's good, but no longer in the elite-of-the-elite'.

Yup, and the Brady-can-do-no-wrong crowd thinks he's MVP caliber this year, which consists of a handful of regular posters and a whole bunch who are vocal only when he's winning...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Silver doesn't like Belichick. Silver became friends with Brady before Brady emerged. He isn't biased against Brady. Belichick, on the other hand.

The Bucs are not running go routes 90% of the time. If that is your premise, then you have no right to argue.

They built this team the way Brady wanted. Arians didn't want Antonio Brown. Brady did. Brady wanted Gronk. Not sure the Bucs would have traded for him if Brady didn't want it since they already had two capable TEs on the roster. Fornette was probably more Brady's want than Arians because Brady wants a RB he can throw passes to. If Brady is influencing personnel decisions, it makes sense he is influencing the play calling.

Not biased against Brady? How do you explain Silver's adamant irrational Deflategate spewings where he was against Brady? No Belichick there.

 

[sb1]

Not biased against Brady? How do you explain Silver's adamant irrational Deflategate spewings where he was against Brady? No Belichick there.

There's this...



I know he is a Raiders fan too so I'm sure he isn't exactly a Patriots defender in the first place.

 

[Rob0729]

Not biased against Brady? How do you explain Silver's adamant irrational Deflategate spewings where he was against Brady? No Belichick there.

Silver and Brady became friends when Silver did an SI story on Brady in the 2001 season. He has been a staunch defender of Brady in many things. He has been a guy in the past that Brady would leak stories through.

That said, he hates Belichick. Deflategate was probably more about getting at Belichick than Tom. But many Brady fans in the media turned on him over Deflategate especially early on in the process until people started to poke holes in the report and how they manipulated the data.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't see how the Bradyites are just dismissing Silver's report here as "oh he hates Brady so it must be false." Silver is quoting Arians, who says Brady is the one picking the plays. Now, Arians might be the one lying, but hard to blame this on Silver if he's just quoting the guy.

 

[sb1]

Yup, and the Brady-can-do-no-wrong crowd thinks he's MVP caliber this year, which consists of a handful of regular posters and a whole bunch who are vocal only when he's winning...

To be fair he was in the MVP conversation (not leading it but in the conversation) leading up to the second Saints game.

Now it's Mahomes to lose. 30 TD to 2 INT is ridiculous. If that sticks it will beat Brady's record he set in 2017 for TD to INT

 

[203Pat]

Yup, and the Brady-can-do-no-wrong crowd thinks he's MVP caliber this year, which consists of a handful of regular posters and a whole bunch who are vocal only when he's winning...

Lol up until the Saints game he was right there in the MVP race so yes for about half the year he was MVP caliber. He may not be as good as Mahomes or Rodgers right now but overall at 43 with a new team and not a lot of time with them before the season he is doing well all things considered. At least you finally took his logo off your handle.

 

[Kontradiction]

I guess you're right - Brady is playing above average this season and that is the definition of "high level." His QB rating (taking into account touchdowns, yards, and INTs) suggests he is having high a level a season as Bridgewater, Rivers, and Lamar. If he improves, he can catch Justin Herbert.

You’re embarrassing yourself now. Since you’re obsessing over rating, for whatever reason, his rating so far this season is on par with his 2004, 2005, and 2013 seasons. What’s funny is I don’t seem to recall you being very vocal about Brady no longer playing at a high level when analyzing those seasons? I don’t recall you questioning his level of play in 2018, with a 97.7 rating, as he was helping lead that squad to a Super Bowl. Yes or no - was Brady playing at a high level during those years or not? Yes or no - do you think every single one of those 11 INTs are his daily? Of course, I’m not actually expecting an answer to these questions. To answer them would expose a bias. Just stop, bud. Let someone else take a crack at it.

 

[203Pat]

You’re embarrassing yourself now. Since you’re obsessing over rating, for whatever reason, his rating so far this season is on par with his 2004, 2005, and 2013 seasons. What’s funny is I don’t seem to recall you being very vocal about Brady no longer playing at a high level when analyzing those seasons? I don’t recall you questioning his level of play in 2018, with a 97.7 rating, as he was helping lead that squad to a Super Bowl. Yes or no - was Brady playing at a high level during those years or not? Just stop, bud. Let someone else take a crack at it.

I just cant get over the fact that a poster named "TommyBrady12" who used to have Brady's personal brand logo as his avatar goes out of his way to diminish Brady every chance he gets.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes, the whole offense didn't play well in the Rams game including Brady.

I will give you the Chiefs' game. You are still talking about Brady playing elite for two game two years ago. You think if Brady plays elite for two more games this year, it erases the fact he has been inconsistent all year? It just re-enforces my point that Brady has lost a step and is no longer elite, but is capable of being elite again for short stretches.

Why can you not admit Brady is 43 years old and has lost a step? He is still better than most QBs in the league, but he is no longer elite. It isn't a swipe at the guy. It is a testament to the guy because being the 5th or 6th or 7th best QB in the league, where he is now, is incredible for a 43 year old QB.

I’m not saying he’s playing like an elite QB. I’m saying he’s still playing at a very high level, everything considered, and still has regular and postseason games in front of him. As for being the 5th, 6th, 7th best QB? You’re struggling here when you could only name 4 in front of him before “having to think about it.”

 

[Rob0729]

I’m not saying he’s playing like an elite QB. I’m saying he’s still playing at a very high level, everything considered, and still has regular and postseason games in front of him. As for being the 5th, 6th, 7th best QB? You’re struggling here when you could only name 4 in front of him before “having to think about it.”

If I can name four better QBs than Brady, wouldn't that make him the 5th best QB in the league? I just haven't been following the NFL this year because COVID is making this season a waste so I do not know the play of a lot of QBs. That is why I say he is in the 5-10 range. I know there are at least four QBs better than him. Could there be one or two others? Possibly.

But again, Brady in his prime would be #1 or #2 (you could argue the way Mahomes is playing that he might end up being better than Brady in any given year in his prime). Now he is 5-7. That is a drop. Hell, if he was third or fourth best, it would be a decline.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You’re embarrassing yourself now. Since you’re obsessing over rating, for whatever reason, his rating so far this season is on par with his 2004, 2005, and 2013 seasons. What’s funny is I don’t seem to recall you being very vocal about Brady no longer playing at a high level when analyzing those seasons? I don’t recall you questioning his level of play in 2018, with a 97.7 rating, as he was helping lead that squad to a Super Bowl. Yes or no - was Brady playing at a high level during those years or not? Yes or no - do you think every single one of those 11 INTs are his daily? Of course, I’m not actually expecting an answer to these questions. To answer them would expose a bias. Just stop, bud. Let someone else take a crack at it.

Could it be because you were the one who brought up QB rating in the first place? In the past, I never complained about Brady because the Pats were winning, which is all that I cared about. I never was a stats guy when it came to this team.

So all in all, I agree with you. Brady is playing at a high level (above average), which is nothing to get excited about.

 

[PP2]

Ariens isn’t an all world coach, he isn’t a great coach. He is an average coach. Stop blaming him for Brady having a so so year. I know you want Brady to still be BRADY, but he is 43 and set in his ways. He may still be good enough to overcome this stuff with an amazingly good team around him but probably he isn’t.

Arians deserves the blame.. all the QB's under him set their personal records for INT's. His "no risk it, no biscuit" ******** hasn't gotten any of his teams anywhere.

Winston last year had a league leading 30 INT's, almost 10 more than Baker who was 2nd in INT's.

 

[moosekill]

Tom chose to go there. Arians is an ok coach. Team is still doing pretty well. The Brady bunch expected perfection. Super team, Tom finally has all the weapons, Madden on God Mode, perfect coach for Tom and his weapons. When there isn't perfection the blame quickly goes anywhere but Tom. I think there is plenty of blame to go around, and much of it falls directly at Tom.