OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[upstater1]

Oh so now we are just gonna forget Bill signed Antonio Brown?

Literally had people making comparisons to 2007 when Brown got signed




Was asked to refrain from doing one thing and he couldn't.

Just for one second imagine Brown didn't idiotically add that women to the group text and the OL doesn't get ravaged by injuries.

Really don't think anyone would be saying "Bill f**ked Brady". They might be talking about #7

I agree with you. We were not that far away. Adding Antonio Brown to Edelman & James White would have helped a lot. And we did get Isaiah Wynn back for a few games late in the season.

It would have also meant keeping the #2 pick we gave up for Sanu, and maybe we would have drafted Claypool with it (double doh!).

That being said, Brady did have an elbow injury last year, and that contributed to the Patriots' sense that he was washed up. I didn't really believe that they believed it until I heard Robert Kraft saying wistfully that he wished Brady had simply recognized the decline and retired as a Patriot. I couldn't believe Kraft went there. And the fact that he did made me think that it was a commonly held position among talet evaluators in the organization.

I bet Josh McDaniels is partly to blame too because he won games with Tebow and Kyle Orton, and the Patriots won with Cassel and Jacoby Brisset.

 

[upstater1]

Yeah...Tom Brady doesn’t know how to deal with ego, power, and fame. He’s in over his head with his newfound superstardom.

The most humble QB team player in NFL history was really always just a diva

 

[upstater1]

Brady was fantastic in the postseason of 2018. Are you really saying he only threw one pass?

Do you know what his offensive weapons were? Edelman, Burkhead, James White.

We put up 37 points. On the road. At KC. One of the hardest places to play. Sheesh.

I'm going to quote my own post. In late 2018, my rabid Pats fans friends all kind of said, welp, that's the end of the dynasty. We had a helluva run, but all good things must come to an end. On this message board, we almost all universally acknowledged that the team did not have it takes. We expected something that looked like 2012 or 2013. Instead, we were all so surprised to see them balling out against SD and KC. It suddenly felt very much like 2006. Except this time the Patriots overcame the blatant blindness of the referees in an away game against the #1 seed.

 

[sb1]

The most humble QB team player in NFL history was really always just a diva

Ehhh... Brady isn't a diva but I don't know if I'd call Brady exactly humble either.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm going to quote my own post. In late 2018, my rabid Pats fans friends all kind of said, welp, that's the end of the dynasty. We had a helluva run, but all good things must come to an end. On this message board, we almost all universally acknowledged that the team did not have it takes. We expected something that looked like 2012 or 2013. Instead, we were all so surprised to see them balling out against SD and KC. It suddenly felt very much like 2006. Except this time the Patriots overcame the blatant blindness of the referees in an away game against the #1 seed.

Brady threw a pick on the first drive of the game against the LAR and then missed a TD pass by one yard when Gronk caught that beautiful seem pass. It's hilarious how many people look at QB rating and the stat line of 0/1 in the Super Bowl and conclude that Brady was declining or was carried to the Super Bowl.

He absolutely diced up the Chargers and played out of his mind down the stretch in Kansas City, and his Super Bowl performance against a tough defense was fine though not spectacular; it was arguably better than Patrick Mahomes's MVP performance last year where he had two interceptions (and a slew of questionable decisions) but made the plays down the stretch when he needed to.

 

[Zarozzor]

Brady threw a pick on the first drive of the game against the LAR and then missed a TD pass by one yard when Gronk caught that beautiful seem pass. It's hilarious how many people look at QB rating and the stat line of 0/1 in the Super Bowl and conclude that Brady was declining or was carried to the Super Bowl.

He absolutely diced up the Chargers and played out of his mind down the stretch in Kansas City, and his Super Bowl performance against a tough defense was fine though not spectacular; it was arguably better than Patrick Mahomes's MVP performance last year where he had two interceptions (and a slew of questionable decisions) but made the plays down the stretch when he needed to.

I’ve talked to so many box score watchers and they all tell me that Brady was carried by his defense in the 2018 playoffs. “But he only threw 2 TD’s in 3 games! He was carried!”

If only he had gotten those goal line TD’s like so many of the “big names” do maybe he could get some credit from them. But Brady has never gave a **** about that kind of stuff.

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[Rob0729]

Brady is playing better than I thought he would, but I will stand by my points when I said he is showing signs of age. I still don't believe he can elevate a mediocre offense like he used to. I said he could be a very good to great QB with good talent around him, but he cannot make chicken salad out of horse **** like he did like in 2006. I still believe he deserved some of the blame for the offense last year. Clearly not a lion share of it or even a significant piece, but more than people gave him.

He has a lot of talent in Tampa. Edelman would be the only receiver on the Pats who could make the Bucs' roster. And I would argue based on how he has played this year thus far, he wouldn't even make the starting line up on the Bucs. Miller has been far better than him.

And I said this before that I didn't mind him leaving (at least from a cold football sense). We weren't going to the Super Bowl with Brady and the players who sat out the season for COVID. Adding COVID to the mix meant this was the year to tank and rebuild. This year is already a mess and likely to get worse as the next wave hits.

Let's face it. The offense wasn't all that good last year and it would probably be worse even with Brady this year since Edelman is either still injured or showing signs of age. It would be better than it is now. But would it be good enough to make this team more than a low tier playoff team or a just miss the playoffs team? I don't think so.

I wanted Brady to retire a Patriot. And it is painful to watch him in another uniform. But I think if he was here right now, people would be more likely talking about if it was getting closer to the end of the line for him rather than talking about him being in contention for MVP.

 

[upstater1]

Brady threw a pick on the first drive of the game against the LAR and then missed a TD pass by one yard when Gronk caught that beautiful seem pass. It's hilarious how many people look at QB rating and the stat line of 0/1 in the Super Bowl and conclude that Brady was declining or was carried to the Super Bowl.

He absolutely diced up the Chargers and played out of his mind down the stretch in Kansas City, and his Super Bowl performance against a tough defense was fine though not spectacular; it was arguably better than Patrick Mahomes's MVP performance last year where he had two interceptions (and a slew of questionable decisions) but made the plays down the stretch when he needed to.

He actually had a bad 2 quarters in the SB. It wasn't good. But weirdly, both the 2nd and 4th qtrs were excellent. A very uneven up and down game. I can't account for it.

Another thing that always gets me when people talk about the Rams Super Bowl is that it came one year after he throw for 500 yards--and lost. So people saw a decline. Of course, no one mentions that the Patriots are always going to air it out when they need to, but when games are tight, they are not going to take the kind of risk where Brady holds the ball too long and allows anLB to strip sack him (Brandon Graham). Situational football!

And not only that, the commentators say that the 2018 Super Bowl was reminiscent of the 3 early SBs when the Patriots relied on defense and Vinatieri. True of SB victory #1, but my god the Carolina SB was a shooting match fro late in the 2nd qtr until the end. Brady threw for 350+ yards, which was the second highest total in Super Bowl history at the time, while the defense (without Rodney) gave up about a point per minute. And Vinatieri? He missed two chip shot field goals.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The most humble QB team player in NFL history was really always just a diva

It's very possible for guys to be very humble off the field and very arrogant on the field.

There are stories of these encounters all over the place...people running into Tom unexpectedly and being taken away by his humility and kindness. Not that other famous athletes aren't like this...but you also have plenty of assholes. Someone like Michael Jordan is someone who is unable to turn off his competitive drive in any area of his life; Tom has a unique ability to be a totally different person and psycho when he's competing but a family man and good human being when he's not. This is why a lot of Pats fans will follow this guy anywhere.

 

[h0c2000]

Since TB12 stole AB from the Seahags, is TB the GM > BB the GM?

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Brady calling all the shots in Tampa. His head is getting bigger every week and at some point it may just bite him.

Does anyone think Leonard Fournette would have signed with Tampa - for the bargain basement price of 2 million - if Tom wasn't there? He's an indispensable part of their backfield. AB (who I personally despise) signed for the vet minimum. Tom the GM is doing okay so far.

 

[upstater1]

Brady is playing better than I thought he would, but I will stand by my points when I said he is showing signs of age. I still don't believe he can elevate a mediocre offense like he used to. I said he could be a very good to great QB with good talent around him, but he cannot make chicken salad out of horse **** like he did like in 2006. I still believe he deserved some of the blame for the offense last year. Clearly not a lion share of it or even a significant piece, but more than people gave him.

He has a lot of talent in Tampa. Edelman would be the only receiver on the Pats who could make the Bucs' roster. And I would argue based on how he has played this year thus far, he wouldn't even make the starting line up on the Bucs. Miller has been far better than him.

And I said this before that I didn't mind him leaving (at least from a cold football sense). We weren't going to the Super Bowl with Brady and the players who sat out the season for COVID. Adding COVID to the mix meant this was the year to tank and rebuild. This year is already a mess and likely to get worse as the next wave hits.

Let's face it. The offense wasn't all that good last year and it would probably be worse even with Brady this year since Edelman is either still injured or showing signs of age. It would be better than it is now. But would it be good enough to make this team more than a low tier playoff team or a just miss the playoffs team? I don't think so.

I wanted Brady to retire a Patriot. And it is painful to watch him in another uniform. But I think if he was here right now, people would be more likely talking about if it was getting closer to the end of the line for him rather than talking about him being in contention for MVP.

Not buying this. We had no weapons in 2018 either. Look at the WR roster for the Super Bowl. Um, Edelman, Burkhead, Gronk. Won 3 big playoff games with them.

Last year Brady was hampered by 4 injured starting OL and Marshall Newhouse at LT.

I do think he'd be a huge improvement.

I watched the Tampa game on replay Sunday night. Brady was throwing it all over the place, with plenty of zip on the ball. He was making all the throws. I don't understand how anyone could watch that and think he has lost anything from 4 or 5 years ago. An argument can be made but on what throw and in what situation. I didn't see ANY evidence.

 

[upstater1]

It's very possible for guys to be very humble off the field and very arrogant on the field.

There are stories of these encounters all over the place...people running into Tom unexpectedly and being taken away by his humility and kindness. Not that other famous athletes aren't like this...but you also have plenty of assholes. Someone like Michael Jordan is someone who is unable to turn off his competitive drive in any area of his life; Tom has a unique ability to be a totally different person and psycho when he's competing but a family man and good human being when he's not. This is why a lot of Pats fans will follow this guy anywhere.

I was also thinking of him as a guy who took salary cuts to have a better team and to show leadership by taking the critical abuse that came his way. To me that showed he was the consummate team player. More concerned with winning than anything else.

 

[Rob0729]

Respect...

1) Sack rate is one thing. Brady makes a lot of sub par OLines look good because he gets the ball out. But sack rate doesn't tell the whole story. They've played three teams with a good pass rush and Brady took a beating in two of those games. The Bears, in particular, nearly killed him and they lost a game they had no business losing almost directly because of the Bears pass rush. Their LT is good at times and bad at times. When the OL keeps him clean, you get Las Vegas numbers. When they don't, you get Chicago numbers. Even the Packers gave them trouble in the second half, and Brady's second half numbers dipped as a result. Good thing they couldn't stop the run.

2) Arians has adapted somewhat and that's great. You had to expect they'd allow for Brady to run some of his favorite stuff. They'd have been stupid not to. But that's only one part of coaching. Can he keep the Bucs disciplined for a stretch of games? That remains to be seen. History says no. They're still among the leaders in penalties even after the past two clean games. Things are trending positively, however, which is good. Likewise, can he outcoach the other guy when the chips are stacked against him and maybe Brady is not having his best game? That remains to be seen. I certainly am not sold on him just yet.

3) Again with the stats? Yes, the defense is very good. Their front 7 is nasty! But they're young. As such, they're prone to giving up a lot of big plays every game. And they've not yet become a consistent group. Against top teams, that's what you worry about. They are aggressive, athletic and FAST. But they're still learning. I will say I'm sold on Bowles as a DC and they should become better and better as the season goes on (provided the key guys stay healthy).

As far as Gronk, I was on record as saying I felt he should have stayed retired. As a huge fan who throughly enjoyed his prime and believe him to be the best TE of all-time, I still feel that way. Is he as washed as I thought, no. So at least on that front, I absolutely can say I was wrong. Do I believe he can consistently play the way he's been playing, though? I have to honestly say I don't think I do. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Gronk makes me look stupid because that would mean he's balling out. But we'll have to wait and see. But I do feel some of his success will be dictated by the guys around him more so than his own prowess.

But respect to you, venecol. I tend to go more by what I'm seeing in the games than on statistics, personally. Maybe all this will be moot as guys get healthier and if AB can just play football (remains to be seen). But I do thank you for sharing your thoughts on my post, bro!

I still think people are overstating Gronk's play this year. If he was just another starting TE, you can say he has been playing well over the last few weeks. For a HOF like Gronk, he has been good at times and decent mostly. He has two TDs for the season. Yes, it has been the last two games, but still. He hasn't had one of his patented games where he totally dominates the game and gets seven plus catches and 110-150+ yards. He is on pace for his lowest yards per catch percentage of his career.

 

[Tottie]

Not buying this. We had no weapons in 2018 either. Look at the WR roster for the Super Bowl. Um, Edelman, Burkhead, Gronk. Won 3 big playoff games with them.

Last year Brady was hampered by 4 injured starting OL and Marshall Newhouse at LT.

I do think he'd be a huge improvement.

I watched the Tampa game on replay Sunday night. Brady was throwing it all over the place, with plenty of zip on the ball. He was making all the throws. I don't understand how anyone could watch that and think he has lost anything from 4 or 5 years ago. An argument can be made but on what throw and in what situation. I didn't see ANY evidence.

I agree but I suppose you could ask yourself if he can last 16 games and the post season. Last season some of us believed he was injured, but he would never really say it was a problem. Can he avoid nagging injuries and fatigue. I think he can. He looks nothing like Brees who I still think is a very good QB himself but has clear limitations.

 

[203Pat]

It's very possible for guys to be very humble off the field and very arrogant on the field.

There are stories of these encounters all over the place...people running into Tom unexpectedly and being taken away by his humility and kindness. Not that other famous athletes aren't like this...but you also have plenty of assholes. Someone like Michael Jordan is someone who is unable to turn off his competitive drive in any area of his life; Tom has a unique ability to be a totally different person and psycho when he's competing but a family man and good human being when he's not. This is why a lot of Pats fans will follow this guy anywhere.

A friend of mine’s sister met him and she said he couldn’t have been nicer. He shook her hand and took a picture with her and her mom and told them good luck with something (I don’t know remember what they told him they were doing). I’m glad there’s so many stories about people meeting him and how down to earth he is. In college I worked at a high end steakhouse down in Tampa and some athletes were nice and some were total tools.

 

[Rob0729]

Not buying this. We had no weapons in 2018 either. Look at the WR roster for the Super Bowl. Um, Edelman, Burkhead, Gronk. Won 3 big playoff games with them.

Last year Brady was hampered by 4 injured starting OL and Marshall Newhouse at LT.

I do think he'd be a huge improvement.

I watched the Tampa game on replay Sunday night. Brady was throwing it all over the place, with plenty of zip on the ball. He was making all the throws. I don't understand how anyone could watch that and think he has lost anything from 4 or 5 years ago. An argument can be made but on what throw and in what situation. I didn't see ANY evidence.

Two years when you are over 40 is a lifetime.

And in 2006, the Pats' #1 receiver was Reche Caldwell and they had a revolving door at RT and Brady was a 4th and 2 play away from going to the Super Bowl and most likely winning it. The Pats stumbled into the playoffs last year giving up home field advantage in the process and then were one and done.

You can't look at him this year and compare him to his last few years with the Pats because of what you said. He had no weapons here and he has tons of weapons now. My point is he is still a very good to great QB who can play great with a great team around him. I am saying he cannot elevate a bad team like he used to. He can look as good as ever because he has a clean pocket and wide open receivers.

But I never said that Brady was a huge drop off from what he was. Just enough that he cannot elevate a bad team like he used to. I still think he he went from elite to top of the next tier under the Mahomes of the world which would still make him look great in an offense full of talent.

The problem is neither of us can be proven right or wrong because he didn't stay in the same situation. So we only have our opinions.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not buying this. We had no weapons in 2018 either. Look at the WR roster for the Super Bowl. Um, Edelman, Burkhead, Gronk. Won 3 big playoff games with them.

Last year Brady was hampered by 4 injured starting OL and Marshall Newhouse at LT.

I do think he'd be a huge improvement.

I watched the Tampa game on replay Sunday night. Brady was throwing it all over the place, with plenty of zip on the ball. He was making all the throws. I don't understand how anyone could watch that and think he has lost anything from 4 or 5 years ago. An argument can be made but on what throw and in what situation. I didn't see ANY evidence.

That’s because there is none. Rob is pulling a Kellerman. He thought Brady was cooked last season and now that it’s more obvious than ever that he was wrong, he’s tap dancing around it. The offense he had in 2019 was worse than any offense he’s ever had in his pro career, and yet he still threw for over 4,000 yards and had the team one clunker against Miami away from a first round bye. No quarterback can make chicken salad out of chicken **** - as is evidenced by the fact that we didn’t go to the big game in 2006, either.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I still think people are overstating Gronk's play this year. If he was just another starting TE, you can say he has been playing well over the last few weeks. For a HOF like Gronk, he has been good at times and decent mostly. He has two TDs for the season. Yes, it has been the last two games, but still. He hasn't had one of his patented games where he totally dominates the game and gets seven plus catches and 110-150+ yards. He is on pace for his lowest yards per catch percentage of his career.

He doesn't have to be a superstar in that offense like in NE; he just needs to be a guy who will consistently beat you if you don't pay much attention to him...which it appears he is if he can stay healthy. That team has so much depth at TE/WR; if Brown catches on they're going to see a lot of nickel/dime looks to stop those receivers from tearing them a new one. Having Gronk in there to feast against DBs as a blocker or pass catcher will cause some huge matchup issues.