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OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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Actual Pats Fan

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I'm a person not from that era, not from the NE area, and just a casual fan of Basketball.

Due to what he had accomplished, I just assumed he had the size advantage over the opponents as a big center or power forward.

I would think most people like me have the belief that Russell is a giant at his position. I would bet 50 years from now, most future generations would automatically assume Tom Brady is an athletic freak.
Tom's not a slouch physically. But to the scouts at the combine, he was. Thank goodness for Belichick and Rehbein for looking at the actual football Tom played.

Russell was physically gifted: He could jump, run, and pound it under the glass. What separated him is stamina, effort, intensity and most of all intelligence. Like Brady, Russell was always a student of the game, and never considered himself its master.

Many people choose not to accept Russ as the best because he wasn't a great shooter, wasn't physically amazing like the Doctor or MJ, and he wasn't flashy.

Denigration of his and the Celtics' success saying the competition wasn't as good, or that the style of play was inferior, or the smaller number of teams made it 'easier', or especially that the pressure was not as intense, is absurd.

But also people do not accept Russell personally. He was the nerdy, dorky younger brother who spent his teen years reading books in the library when his family moved to California. He was not the flashy high school athlete and he didn't have a girlfriend. With his friends he was silly and funny. Publicly he made it completely clear of his awareness and non-acceptance of White Supremacy. With the media he was self-deprecating, and you always got a huge laugh out of him instead of some haughty acknowledgement of his obvious greatness.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
I'm a person not from that era, not from the NE area, and just a casual fan of Basketball.

Due to what he had accomplished, I just assumed he had the size advantage over the opponents as a big center or power forward.

I would think most people like me have the belief that Russell is a giant at his position. I see much similarities between Bill Russell and Tom Brady. Both the Goat in their sports in terms of winning accomplishments, and both not physically dominant for their positions. I would bet 50 years from now, most future generations would automatically assume Tom Brady is an athletic freak too.

Very few all-time great quarterbacks were athletic freaks. Most were somewhat immobile and even awkward looking...if you watch some old time clips of guys Baugh, Unitas, etc. they're basically lumbering around out there like Brady today. Marino, Manning, are the same way; these guys were also great at avoiding sacks by geting the ball out quickly.

You probably won't see a single throw here where Unitas scrambles.


In terms of the "more mobile" guys, I think Montana had that great combination of pocket presence and scrambling to buy just enough time and occassionally be a threat to run for a first down. He was a pocket passer who also had quick feet when needed.

Young was obviously a great QB who was able to throw on the run and often bailed on the pocket, but his skill set his pretty unique; for every Young, there are so many other guys who can't make up for bad habits through talent, and Young suffered so many concussions too.

I'll take a guy who is 6'4", long arms, and has fantastic footwork and balance over a guy who is 6'1" and has to outrun defense ends to get a throwing lane. "Athleticism" as it relates to quarterbacks is misunderstood; TB12 is exceptionally gifted and lucky to have the required physical tools to be an all-time great.
 
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Very few all-time great quarterbacks were athletic freaks. Most were somewhat immobile and even awkward looking...if you watch some old time clips of guys Baugh, Unitas, etc. they're basically lumbering around out there like Brady today. Marino, Manning, are the same way; these guys were also great at avoiding sacks by geting the ball out quickly.

You probably won't see a single throw here where Unitas scrambles.


In terms of the "more mobile" guys, I think Montana had that great combination of pocket presence and scrambling to buy just enough time and occassionally be a threat to run for a first down. He was a pocket passer who also had quick feet when needed.

Young was obviously a great QB who was able to throw on the run and often bailed on the pocket, but his skill set his pretty unique; for every Young, there are so many other guys who can't make up for bad habits through talent, and Young suffered so many concussions too.

I'll take a guy who is 6'4", long arms, and has fantastic footwork and balance over a guy who is 6'1" and has to outrun defense ends to get a throwing lane. "Athleticism" as it relates to quarterbacks is misunderstood; Tom is exceptionally gifted and lucky to have the required physical tools to be an all-time great.
Charley Trippi is listed as 6' but that might be a little generous. BTW he's 99 and still kicking, by the time he retired he had compiled the most yards of total offense by a player in NFL history, and he's the oldest living member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the oldest living first overall NFL draft pick, and one of the oldest living former American football players.

Eddie LeBaron was 5'7" and made four Pro Bowls.

Doug Flutie (5'10") was screwed in the NFL - once before, and then again once after he set rushing and passing records, won 6 MVP's and 3 titles in the CFL.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
Charley Trippi is listed as 6' but that might be a little generous. BTW he's 99 and still kicking, by the time he retired he had compiled the most yards of total offense by a player in NFL history, and he's the oldest living member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the oldest living first overall NFL draft pick, and one of the oldest living former American football players.

Eddie LeBaron was 5'7" and made four Pro Bowls.

Doug Flutie (5'10") was screwed in the NFL - once before, and then again once after he set rushing and passing records, won 6 MVP's and 3 titles in the CFL.

I wouldn't really call Trippi a quarterback though...if we're using passing as a standard. He really only played two years as a passing QB had wasn't very successful.

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PatsWickedPissah

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I'm a person not from that era, not from the NE area, and just a casual fan of Basketball.

Due to what he had accomplished, I just assumed he had the size advantage over the opponents as a big center or power forward.

I would think most people like me have the belief that Russell is a giant at his position. I see much similarities between Bill Russell and Tom Brady. Both the Goat in their sports in terms of winning accomplishments, and both not physically dominant for their positions. I would bet 50 years from now, most future generations would automatically assume Tom Brady is an athletic freak too.
Russ was by far my favorite Celt. Next was KC Jones, then Heinsohn.
 

1960Pats

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I'm a person not from that era, not from the NE area, and just a casual fan of Basketball.

Due to what he had accomplished, I just assumed he had the size advantage over the opponents as a big center or power forward.

I would think most people like me have the belief that Russell is a giant at his position. I see much similarities between Bill Russell and Tom Brady. Both the Goat in their sports in terms of winning accomplishments, and both not physically dominant for their positions. I would bet 50 years from now, most future generations would automatically assume Tom Brady is an athletic freak too.
Interesting angle.

What I remember most about Russell was his quickness for a 6'9" guy. He had an incredible ability to block shots but he didn't overdo it and didn't seem to ever get faked out, like Don Nelson used to do to half the league.

It's not a coincidence that the Celts never won a thing before he came here, then won that year and 10 of the next 12 followed by none until years after he left.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Tom's not a slouch physically. But to the scouts at the combine, he was. Thank goodness for Belichick and Rehbein for looking at the actual football Tom played.

Russell was physically gifted: He could jump, run, and pound it under the glass. What separated him is stamina, effort, intensity and most of all intelligence. Like Brady, Russell was always a student of the game, and never considered himself its master.

Many people choose not to accept Russ as the best because he wasn't a great shooter, wasn't physically amazing like the Doctor or MJ, and he wasn't flashy.

Denigration of his and the Celtics' success saying the competition wasn't as good, or that the style of play was inferior, or the smaller number of teams made it 'easier', or especially that the pressure was not as intense, is absurd.

But also people do not accept Russell personally. He was the nerdy, dorky younger brother who spent his teen years reading books in the library when his family moved to California. He was not the flashy high school athlete and he didn't have a girlfriend. With his friends he was silly and funny. Publicly he made it completely clear of his awareness and non-acceptance of White Supremacy. With the media he was self-deprecating, and you always got a huge laugh out of him instead of some haughty acknowledgement of his obvious greatness.

Well said. Russell basically invented the shot block, it wasn't counted until Russell showed up. You see insane stats like 30 rebounds a game and wonder if it was a typo, it was not. Second Wind is one of my favorite books. Also it's telling that after someone defecated on his Boston home bed, when he retired he left to live in Seattle and basically refused to associate with Boston for decades after. Hello Cam Newton...

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Interesting angle.

What I remember most about Russell was his quickness for a 6'9" guy. He had an incredible ability to block shots but he didn't overdo it and didn't seem to ever get faked out, like Don Nelson used to do to half the league.

It's not a coincidence that the Celts never won a thing before he came here, then won that year and 10 of the next 12 followed by none until years after he left.
Red definitely had the table set before young rookie Russ arrived after the Olympics.

And Red was the master manager and motivator.

Symbiotic relationship.
 

1960Pats

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Red definitely had the table set before young rookie Russ arrived after the Olympics.

And Red was the master manager and motivator.

Symbiotic relationship.
Red was a genius. His best move could have been bringing in Russell, or it could have been the trade that gave us Robert Parish and Kevin McHale, or it could have been the drafting of Bird as a junior, or it could have been the trade that gave us Len Bias, even if only momentarily.
 

aluminum seats

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It's a common misconception amongst the yougsters that players were smaller in the old days. They never saw Wilt or Wes Unseld play.
Well, generally speaking they were shorter in the old days. Interesting study here, showing that for the first time in a long time the average NBA player is shorter over the last few years

 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Does anybody have a link to the full game of the super bowl? It was on YouTube awhile back but the user took the link down. If anyone has it, I would appreciate it. If you don't want to post here for any reason, my email is: [email protected]
 

gobesmug

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
You know for a fact that they aren’t all vaccinated?
My comment had nothing to do with being vaccinated.

The players are refusing to go to OTAs because they say it's unsafe due to covid, but that room is full of players without masks, so clearly it shows their excuse to be BS.

I don't care if they are in a room vaccinated or not vaccinated. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the players.
 

Angelpats

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
My comment had nothing to do with being vaccinated.

The players are refusing to go to OTAs because they say it's unsafe due to covid, but that room is full of players without masks, so clearly it shows their excuse to be BS.

I don't care if they are in a room vaccinated or not vaccinated. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the players.
Well, you can’t let a pandemic go to waste. It created the greatest convenient excuse ever, whereby anyone would be vilified for not accepting it.
 

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