OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[ViperGTS]

The thing is we will see if what you say is true soon. I already explained that his bad 2018 year and all the things that went wrong occurred just 6 months after he played great for several games in a row (highest stakes games). Hard to believe he lost it in 6 months. I come back to the fact 3 OL were out and Marshall Newhouse was his LT, while Edelman played with broken ribs and Sanu had a high ankle sprain. Not sure what people would have expected.

It comes quick as has been stated by many before. One day it's there, the next it's not. He is still very serviceable but he isn't what he was and he took some nasty hits yesterday and looked like his dog died in the post game press conference. Add the to Arians airing the dirty laundry and it just doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

well, the only other thing i see in the forst pages is the ask to have this in a different sub forum, as it it should be. who's throwing a tantrum? I'm happy cause we won yesterday and Drew breese gave me the cherry on the pie.... .. this is just a very fair ask to move this out from the Pats forum to another subforum, if you can't get that, well ignore my posts...

If you’re upset about this thread, you should be happy you weren’t around for the Malcolm Butler Mega Thread, which started after SB 52 and was still on page 1 well after he was off the team and all through the completion of SB 53. That thread made dumpster fires go hide in shame....

 

[lancerman]

you said it.. it PLAYED... no longer play for us... I started rooting for the Pats in 85 just to satisfy your curiosity.. and as I said, he is the one who left and moved on.. He did great things here, nobody is even questioning his legacy, but he is not here anymore. I don't see why we shouldn't move on as well..
So you said my post was immature.. well i'm really sarcastic.. and if asking to move on is immaturity, i'm guilty then... All I'm asking os to have this conversations in a bucs foerum not in a New England.. they don't longer play for us... Even it wouldn't bother if this is outside the main forum.. I think there are more exicting things to talk about the team other that 2 players who decided to play for a different team and no longer wanted to play for us.. my 0.002

Then leave the thread. If you don’t want to talk about him.... don’t. Obviously plenty of people here do. Some of you are so soft and just want to dictate discussion so you don’t have to see anything you don’t like.

 

[lancerman]

"But that's too hard".

Honestly there’s way too many people on this site who make it abundantly clear if anything on here offends their sensibilities they will go out of their way to detail and inflame a thread to screw with it. This dude made is making a dozen posts about getting rid of this threat trying up start arguments. It’s making the site unreadable

 

[SVN]

bucs schedule becomes much easier next 3-4 weeks. They will bounce back.

 

[Kdo5]

It's only one game, but my prediction the Bucs lighting it up this year is looking really bad. That game was brutal to watch. Looked like Brady's worst opening day game since @Dolphins 2014. I predicted a Bucs blowout and that didn't age well.

The one thing I worried about is too much of Tom's influence on making these WR's/TE's questioning their routes in coverage. Evans and Godwin looked confused yesterday which we know it's not for their lack of talent. These guys are talented enough that they can beat their man to a spot rather than having 5 routes to consider on the fly in coverage.

Gronk looked awful in his only targets.

Donovan Smith and their O-line looked awful but the Saints look pretty loaded on D.

Def not giving up on Brady. That offense is too damn talented not to put it together. The Bucs as a whole? I have serious doubts about them and their coach. I thought they’d definitely be contenders. I think they will be eventually but as of now certainly not on tier 1 of the NFC.

 

[ViperGTS]

Def not giving up on Brady. That offense is too damn talented not to put it together. The Bucs as a whole? I have serious doubts about them and their coach. I thought they’d definitely be contenders. I think they will be eventually but as of now certainly not on tier 1 of the NFC.

People thought they would be contenders on name recognition which is lazy. There is a difference between talent and winners and that is yet to be determined. So many teams in the NFL were thought to be loaded, only to fall flat on their faces. That is what I think is going to happen in Tampa. The talent alone will win them some games but overall they will come up short in so many areas, up to and including the will to win no matter the cost.

 

[IllegalContact]

I AINT YELLIN, THIS IS JUST HOW I TALK. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF MY MOVIES? DEEP BLUE SEA? A SHARK ATE ME

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE MUTHAFUKKIN SNAKES ON THIS MUTHAFUKKIN PLANE

 

[DropKickFlutie]

People thought they would be contenders on name recognition which is lazy. There is a difference between talent and winners and that is yet to be determined. So many teams in the NFL were thought to be loaded, only to fall flat on their faces. That is what I think is going to happen in Tampa. The talent alone will win them some games but overall they will come up short in so many areas, up to and including the will to win no matter the cost.

Like the Brooklyn Nets with KG and Pierce. Or Lakers with Karl Malone and Payton. Or old Houston Rockets with Pippen and Barkley.

.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

People thought they would be contenders on name recognition which is lazy. There is a difference between talent and winners and that is yet to be determined. So many teams in the NFL were thought to be loaded, only to fall flat on their faces. That is what I think is going to happen in Tampa. The talent alone will win them some games but overall they will come up short in so many areas, up to and including the will to win no matter the cost.

We’re one game into the season...and they faced objectively the hardest game on their schedule.

People thought they’d be contenders because:

-They ranked in the top 5 best defensive teams by DVOA in 2019.
-Their run defense was the best in the league by most metrics in the second half of the season.
-Their QB in 2019 threw 30 INTs and they are replacing him with Tom Brady.
-They have two pro bowl wide receivers and excellent talent/depth at wide receiver and tight end.
-Their offensive line and secondary appear to be their biggest weaknesses but aren’t standout bad like the worst units on some other teams.

It‘s not like they‘ve assembled some fantasy football team. Most of these guys have played together. Replacing a terrible QB with a great one is often the recipe for a turnaround in the NFL. This is nothing like the dream team Eagles or some other historical examples...there was no free agent frenzy.

Also, a few things lost in the disappointment:

Brees averaged 5.3 ypa
Saints rushing was 2.5 ypa

Those are incredibly low for one of the best offenses in the league. Again, the defense largely suffered from the offense’s mistakes, along with some bad penalties (which may or may not be correctable with piggy as head coach.)

Brady was 17/22 throwing to Godwin, Miller, Howard, and Gronk. It’s not like he lacks chemistry with everyone. He and Evans clearly need to put in some extra work; while Brady has has issues with some receivers, he always seems to get it right with the ultra talented guys, and frankly running Evans on deep routes only a would be effective as well until they get on the same page.

 

[ViperGTS]

We’re one game into the season...and they faced objectively the hardest game on their schedule.

People thought they’d be contenders because:

-They ranked in the top 5 best defensive teams by DVOA in 2019.
-Their run defense was the best in the league by most metrics in the second half of the season.
-Their QB in 2019 threw 30 INTs and they are replacing him with Tom Brady.
-They have two pro bowl wide receivers and excellent talent/depth at wide receiver and tight end.
-Their offensive line and secondary appear to be their biggest weaknesses but aren’t standout bad like the worst units on some other teams.

It‘s not like they‘ve assembled some fantasy football team. Most of these guys have played together. Replacing a terrible QB with a great one is often the recipe for a turnaround in the NFL. This is nothing like the dream team Eagles or some other historical examples...there was no free agent frenzy.

Also, a few things lost in the disappointment:

Brees averaged 5.3 ypa
Saints rushing was 2.5 ypa

Those are incredibly low for one of the best offenses in the league. Again, the defense largely suffered from the offense’s mistakes, along with some bad penalties (which may or may not be correctable with piggy as head coach.)

Yeah but that doesn't tell the whole story. They are not replacing him with the GOAT Tom Brady, they are replacing Winston with 43 year old Tom Brady. As we know the league is a week to week entity so who knows if this Saints game was the hardest? Plus they have to play the Saints again too. Atlanta isn't a pushover and neither will Carolina be. Those are all division games x2.

I have stated in the past who knows how good of a route runners Evans et al really are. We have nothing to base it off of and if yesterday was any indications they may not be. Brady is used to having a symbiotic relationship with his receivers and expects them to see things exactly as he sees them. The players had to adjust to his system and find players that fit his system. Now he has to adjust to a new system, put some of his ideas in and add to it get players who never had this type of perfection demanded all of a sudden finding themselves in a whole new world.

Remember they always say the Pats system is like graduate/PHD level concepts/terminology and thats how Brady is wired. What I saw yesterday wasn't that and you could tell the mental mistakes were wearing on him very quickly. Belichick demanded attention to detail and near perfection as does TB. What are the odds he gets that in Tampa from the players or the coaches?


Edit to add I thought if any game(s) were going to be good for Brady would be in the first half of the season before the hits start adding up and the wear and tear on his arm starts building up. Just like it did last year and the year before. That will not get better as you get older, it is a physical impossibility to do so.

As far as your 17/22 completion stat, they all didn't look like vintage Tom Brady passes. The receivers had to work to catch a lot of those and even in the broadcast they mentioned a few times if he had just led them a little more etc.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

No they weren't. Enough with the excuses. The guy's 43. It has nothing to do with his receivers, especially in Tampa.

yes, they were

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yeah but that doesn't tell the whole story. They are not replacing him with the GOAT Tom Brady, they are replacing Winston with 43 year old Tom Brady. As we know the league is a week to week entity so who knows if this Saints game was the hardest? Plus they have to play the Saints again too. Atlanta isn't a pushover and neither will Carolina be. Those are all division games x2.

I have stated in the past who knows how good of a route runners Evans et al really are. We have nothing to base it off of and if yesterday was any indications they may not be. Brady is used to having a symbiotic relationship with his receivers and expects them to see things exactly as he sees them. The players had to adjust to his system and find players that fit his system. Now he has to adjust to a new system, put some of his ideas in and add to it get players who never had this type of perfection demanded all of a sudden finding themselves in a whole new world.

Remember they always say the Pats system is like graduate/PHD level concepts/terminology and thats how Brady is wired. What I saw yesterday wasn't that and you could tell the mental mistakes were wearing on him very quickly. Belichick demanded attention to detail and near perfection as does TB. What are the odds he gets that in Tampa from the players or the coaches?


Edit to add I thought if any game(s) were going to be good for Brady would be in the first half of the season before the hits start adding up and the wear and tear on his arm starts building up. Just like it did last year and the year before. That will not get better as you get older, it is a physical impossibility to do so.

As far as your 17/22 completion stat, they all didn't look like vintage Tom Brady passes. The receivers had to work to catch a lot of those and even in the broadcast they mentioned a few times if he had just led them a little more etc.

Brady looked bad on Sunday. I’m just saying Tampa has a lot of upside. You can say that about any team, but they really do for obvious reasons.

One is the problems with Brady’s symbiotic relationships with receivers in the read/react EP system is he ran out of receivers. It’s going to be an adjustment period for Brady...he has a classic “modern” NFL offense now with a ton of athleticism and talent but apparently simplicity too. It will interesting to see if they can find some way to meet in the middle like Manning in Denver. One thing Manning struggled with was the language and terminology change. Noticed Tampa brought in Tom Moore (Manning’s old OC/assistant) and wondering if bridging that gap is his directive.

Will be interesting to see how Tom adapts to a very different system as the season progresses.

 

[ViperGTS]

Brady looked bad on Sunday. I’m just saying Tampa has a lot of upside. You can say that about any team, but they really do for obvious reasons.

One is the problems with Brady’s symbiotic relationships with receivers in the read/react EP system is he ran out of receivers. It’s going to be an adjustment period for Brady...he has a classic “modern” NFL offense now with a ton of athleticism and talent but apparently simplicity too. It will interesting to see if they can find some way to meet in the middle like Manning in Denver. One thing Manning struggled with was the language and terminology change. Noticed Tampa brought in Tom Moore (Manning’s old OC/assistant) and wondering if bridging that gap is his directive.

Will be interesting to see how Tom adapts to a very different system as the season progresses.

I agree it will be interesting, but man, Manning was what 36? Yeah he had the neck thing and was hopped up on HGH but still, 36 to 43...I dunno. Vision starts degrading, reaction time goes down etc. I know he is a machine and can play at a decent level until he is 50. We shall see how it goes for sure but I guess I was just irritated at the he's gonna light it on fire from jump street talk and that got me going. Thats all.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

If you’re upset about this thread, you should be happy you weren’t around for the Malcolm Butler Mega Thread, which started after SB 52 and was still on page 1 well after he was off the team and all through the completion of SB 53. That thread made dumpster fires go hide in shame....

Dear god you mentioned that thread again. Wait for it to resurface.... WAIT FOR IT.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Will be good for Brady's reputation as not a system QB if he can actually succeed in... another system

.

 

[luuked]

Baldy respectfully disagrees:

Interesting video and the most concerning of all of the plays when it comes to Brady was that force to Gronk at the end. This one brings back many memories from rewatch threads of year's past.

That being said I still don't think he played really bad. But then again I am judging this on a curve where we have a 43 year old QB who is notoriously detailed focused and has issues trusting new receivers that switched teams and systems. Obviously if you'd rate this on an absolute scale against what Brady has been able to do and the talent he has around him right now in Tampa it was a pretty big dud.

I think a lot of this will look better in 3-4 weeks which is convenient because they should walk over the Panthers, Broncos, Chargers and Bears and then have their first real test of the season against the Packers. If the offense still looks so hapless in the middle of October then they might have a problem.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I felt this is part of the story. To those posting about Brady only, understand this is, always has been and always will be a team game...

Bruce Arians “very disappointed” in Donovan Smith’s play

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[upstater1]

But then again I am judging this on a curve where we have a 43 year old QB who is notoriously detailed focused and has issues trusting new receivers that switched teams and systems.

What are these statements really based on?

I always read this and I can think of a ton of receivers from other teams that played well with him, many of whom couldn't play with any other QB in the league and do as well as he did.

I don't think there is evidence of this.