OT: Lamar Jackson on whether defenses have figured him out: "I doubt it, dude. I doubt it. I strongly doubt it. I’m gonna play ball."

[stinkypete]

Seriously though they didn't invent anything new. As @Sicilian said Jackson is just a freak and extremely elusive & fast. Plus even though he's taken a few, he avoids the big hit better than most anyone no matter the position. Just great awareness in the pocket, on the run, really no matter where he is.

A few years ago they had lightening in a bottle. Last year the OL regressed to the point where it was an accomplishment to get a snap off without incident. TE's regressed. Bottom 5 WR corp (yes maybe worse than ours) . Lamar obviously wasn't as great but he's incredibly efficient overall (26/9) and still was the best player on the team, leading them to the post-season.

He still has trouble throwing outside the #'s and might always have issues there but you have to do better than Willie Snead as your most consistent target.

He's one of the best anticipatory passers when it comes to the MOF btw








He definitely has his flaws but you accept those bc he's a "Z" type athlete that stands out among the best of the best.

Also lets stop calling him a "running QB" or anything stupid like that and address real concerns bc he has them. No need to make stuff up. He obviously runs but that's a 2nd/3rd option unless it's designed. Not bc he can't read a defense ir anything like that. He's a pocket passer (flawed like 98% of the QB's in the league) who can run. And he'd be a fool not to use everything available to him in that respect.

That said he's their entire offense and been the biggest reason why they've been to playoffs 3 years in a row.

He's been the best QB in his division for a few years ..


And his draft class so far ...
Highest comp% - passer rating - YPA, 4th in yards, last in INT (18) among big names, sacked the least among Allen, Darnold, Baker, most W/least L (if that's your thing), rushing yards/rushing yards attempt, rushing yards game.

Careful there, respecting our foes isn't looked upon kindly on these boards.

Between his 3 consecutive playoff appearances and strong efficiency stats, I think Jackson has earned a reputation for being more than just a "running QB". Some focus too much on the low passing yardage, but Jackson was 15th in y/a (tied with Matt Ryan and higher than Justin Herbert) and 9th in quarterback rating. His completion percentage was low compared with league average (64.4%, tied for 26th), but the man he was tied with won his 7th Super Bowl last year, so I won't use it against him.

It is fair to also consider two factors limiting Jackson's statistical output. The Ravens run, essentially, a run first, second and third offense. Jackson was 24th in the league in attempts last year. Joe Burrow (10 games) and Carson Wentz (12 games) both threw a game's worth more passes than Jackson. If Jackson threw a league average number of passes, his efficiency stats suggest he would have come close to 4000 yards. Also, Baltimore's receiving core was very poor last year. If we insist on making that excuse for the Patriots '19 - '20 offensive performance, then it applies to Baltimore as well. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Rashod Bateman and Sammy Watkins COULD improve that, though a rookie and Sammy Watkins are less than sure things.

All that said, Jackson's efficiency numbers suggest he is an average to slightly above average QB, not a great one. It's the running threat puts him over the top.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

In 2019 he was middle of the pack (14th) in adjusted completion % inside the pocket.

I could be wrong but I thought PFF had him #1 from inside the pocket. At least for a good period of time. I don't want to look them up rn. I think he was 1, 2 or 3 in QBR-inside the pocket. And I believe he was #1 or 2 with non-play action passes for QB rating. Also most TD passes from inside the pocket.

Tyson was an animal. Some of the best, most underrated footwork, movements and combo puncher ever. Probably top 5-10 combo puncher. His hook/uppercut might be the most lethal ever? Wilder has crazy one punch power, just natural dumb power. Tyson was actually a great boxer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I could be wrong but I thought PFF had him #1 from inside the pocket. At least for a good period of time. I don't want to look them up rn. I think he was 1, 2 or 3 in QBR-inside the pocket. And I believe he was #1 or 2 with non-play action passes for QB rating. Also most TD passes from inside the pocket.

I have no interest in punching holes in every aspect of LJ's game. The man was an MVP. I respect that.

In terms of being a pocket passer? Nope.

Is he a great quarterback? Different set of criteria.

Tyson was an animal. Some of the best, most underrated footwork, movements and combo puncher ever. Probably top 5-10 combo puncher. His hook/uppercut might be the most lethal ever? Wilder has crazy one punch power, just natural dumb power. Tyson was actually a great boxer.

Mike was incredible but was dominant in a soft era of boxers.

In his prime he goes 3-3 vs Evander & Lennox

 

[patsinthesnow]

A simple take on Lamar:

• He's fun to watch
• You can have a top 10 offense with him at the helm with nobody at WR

I think the second bullet point drives home that he is a great QB. The Ravens have been 1st & 7th in PPG in the two years he's been a full time starter. His top three passing options have been Andrews, Brown & Snead. He lost an All-Pro LT last year & still went 11-5. Sounds like someone that elevates those around them to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

A simple take on Lamar:

• He's fun to watch
• You can have a top 10 offense with him at the helm with nobody at WR

I think the second bullet point drives home that he is a great QB. The Ravens have been 1st & 7th in PPG in the two years he's been a full time starter. His top three passing options have been Andrews, Brown & Snead. He lost an All-Pro LT last year & still went 11-5. Sounds like someone that elevates those around them to me.

The second bullet point drives home that he's running a different system, that it's one that's really all about catering to a running back who throws rather than a quarterback who runs, and that such a radically different system is tough to prepare for during the regular season.

It's been good for a grand total of 15 points in 2 playoff games, though. And it's certainly not proof that he's a great QB.


Edit: forgot about his rookie year after taking over for Flacco. So that makes it 32 points in 3 games. In other words, that "great QB" is averaging less than 11 ppg in the playoffs. I'm not trying to pick on Jackson, but let's not be using PPG as some proof of greatness.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Careful there, respecting our foes isn't looked upon kindly on these boards.

Between his 3 consecutive playoff appearances and strong efficiency stats, I think Jackson has earned a reputation for being more than just a "running QB". Some focus too much on the low passing yardage, but Jackson was 15th in y/a (tied with Matt Ryan and higher than Justin Herbert) and 9th in quarterback rating. His completion percentage was low compared with league average (64.4%, tied for 26th), but the man he was tied with won his 7th Super Bowl last year, so I won't use it against him.

It is fair to also consider two factors limiting Jackson's statistical output. The Ravens run, essentially, a run first, second and third offense. Jackson was 24th in the league in attempts last year. Joe Burrow (10 games) and Carson Wentz (12 games) both threw a game's worth more passes than Jackson. If Jackson threw a league average number of passes, his efficiency stats suggest he would have come close to 4000 yards. Also, Baltimore's receiving core was very poor last year. If we insist on making that excuse for the Patriots '19 - '20 offensive performance, then it applies to Baltimore as well. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Rashod Bateman and Sammy Watkins COULD improve that, though a rookie and Sammy Watkins are less than sure things.

All that said, Jackson's efficiency numbers suggest he is an average to slightly above average QB, not a great one. It's the running threat puts him over the top.

Good post. Well thought out and objective.

 

[Triumph]

I've been telling this board there aren't any "pocket passers" left besides Brady but they don't want to listen.

I'll admit it's the Irish and stubbornness but let's speak and talk about things correctly. Josh Allen ain't a pocket passer and there aren't any waiting in the wings ready to step up ... Besides Mac, Ice.

Nobody believes it because youre wrong.

Rodgers completed 70% of his passes in 2020. He averaged 3 rushes a game. Aaron Rodgers Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com Does Rogers slide in the ;pocket to throw? YES, and so did Brady.

Roethlisberger only runs to avoid the rush to complete the pass. Ben Roethlisberger Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com A total of 1368 rushing yards over 17 seasons. Ben is not a rushing QB on this planet. He wants to throw the ball.

Ryan is another pocket passer. Matt Ryan Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Nobody believes it because youre wrong.

Rodgers completed 70% of his passes in 2020. He averaged 3 rushes a game. Aaron Rodgers Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com Does Rogers slide in the ;pocket to throw? YES, and so did Brady.

Roethlisberger only runs to avoid the rush to complete the pass. Ben Roethlisberger Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com A total of 1368 rushing yards over 17 seasons. Ben is not a rushing QB on this planet. He wants to throw the ball.

Ryan is another pocket passer. Matt Ryan Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

We have bad posters here. And then there's you.

AR isn't a pocket passer. Big Ben has maybe a year left and is a dinosaur. Same for Ryan to a lesser extent, 4-5 years the most.

The very few guys you can point to are older and on their way out. I've said this many times. Pointing to Brady & Big Ben proves my point.

So I'll ask something that no one has answered yet again. Who are the young, legit pocket passers that are contending for a SB?

This isn't something I'm saying to upset people lol. It's not my opinion. Just looking at the landscape, it's not hard. Sure true pocket passers have ruled the game for decades but those types of players just aren't in the league right now. Brady is literally Jon Targaryen fighting off the new wave


If you don't like me saying it, listen to the NFL. Who went #1 this year? Would anyone say Lawrence is a pocket passer in the sense that people throw around? What about Baker? Nope, he needs to roll outside the pocket to really maximize his game and get on the move. Needs strong PA, scheme-dependent, running game to really complement him. Is Murray a pocket passer? What about the others who were drafted this year?

TLDR
It's a different type of QB than years past for the most part. The true pocket passers are gone (Brees, Rivers, Manning) or on their (Brady, Ben) way out.

 

[Deus Irae]

We have bad posters here. And then there's you.

AR isn't a pocket passer. Big Ben has maybe a year left and is a dinosaur. Same for Ryan to a lesser extent, 4-5 years the most.

The very few guys you can point to are older and on their way out. I've said this many times. Pointing to Brady & Big Ben proves my point.

So I'll ask something that no one has answered yet again. Who are the young, legit pocket passers that are contending for a SB?

C'mon man. Be better than this.


Requiring SB contention is ridiculously unfair. However, your definition of pocket passer is also ridiculously unfair, so it really doesn't matter, because you're stacking the deck. The idea that Goff is not a pocket passer, for example, is an absurdity, and he's been to a SB.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Ravens teams success was based out of the 3 TE set. They didn’t resign Hayden Hurst which was a huge mistake by feont office, Nick Boyle who is one of the best blocking tight ends in the nfl was lost for the season vs the Pats and Mark Andrews is just a good receiving tight end. They’ll be better running the ball to open up the pass this season but I doubt they will have the same result as 2019. Especially with the trade of Orlando Brown to the queefs.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

C'mon man. Be better than this.

Requiring SB contention is ridiculously unfair.

No it's not.

The QB position has changed and there's just not a group of young legit "pocket passers" ready to compete for a SB.

If there are, name them.

However, your definition of pocket passer is also ridiculously unfair, so it really doesn't matter, because you're stacking the deck. The idea that Goff is not a pocket passer, for example, is an absurdity, and he's been to a SB.

So the guy who can't pass with misdirection/PA is a true pocket passer?

Well there's your problem. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

We've been through this before but you deflect or run away from a post like you did in the other thread about great players turning losers in winners by themselves. Just name all these pocket passers who are ready to step up and contend?

 

[PP2]

I agree. Pocket passers are pretty much done in today's league. I mean you will still have them sort of but none like Brady or Manning for that matter.

Gotta be the most ignorant comment I've seen in a long time. A pocket passer won the NFL championship last season. Pocket passers have won the most NFL championships and it's not even close.

Oh, and we just drafted a pocket passer who will be our QB for the next decade.

 

[Froob]

I don't think they've figured him out, but he can only play one way and it takes up a lot of clock.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Gotta be the most ignorant comment I've seen in a long time. A pocket passer won the NFL championship last season. Pocket passers have won the most NFL championships and it's not even close.

Oh, and we just drafted a pocket passer who will be our QB for the next decade.

Who are the young pocket passers ready to takeover? Classic pocket passers that just drop back and pick you apart? Cousins, Ryan etc.. Obviously Brady but pointing to him doesn't exactly help your case imo. Brady, Brees, Rivers etc are all out or gone very soon.

There's nothing wrong with those guys at. Obviously they've won the majority of time throughout the league but look at the landscape and tell me who the next great ones are.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

I love to watch Lamar Jackson play. He is very spectacular.

However, he is a very "meh" passer. When some of the speed goes, he is done.

 

[Triumph]

We have bad posters here. And then there's you.

AR isn't a pocket passer. Big Ben has maybe a year left and is a dinosaur. Same for Ryan to a lesser extent, 4-5 years the most.

The very few guys you can point to are older and on their way out. I've said this many times. Pointing to Brady & Big Ben proves my point.

So I'll ask something that no one has answered yet again. Who are the young, legit pocket passers that are contending for a SB?

This isn't something I'm saying to upset people lol. It's not my opinion. Just looking at the landscape, it's not hard. Sure true pocket passers have ruled the game for decades but those types of players just aren't in the league right now. Brady is literally Jon Targaryen fighting off the new wave


If you don't like me saying it, listen to the NFL. Who went #1 this year? Would anyone say Lawrence is a pocket passer in the sense that people throw around? What about Baker? Nope, he needs to roll outside the pocket to really maximize his game and get on the move. Needs strong PA, scheme-dependent, running game to really complement him. Is Murray a pocket passer? What about the others who were drafted this year?

TLDR
It's a different type of QB than years past for the most part. The true pocket passers are gone (Brees, Rivers, Manning) or on their (Brady, Ben) way out.

I noticed that you made another clown shoes comment and I had to call you out on this one.

BaconGrundleCandy said:
I've been telling this board there aren't any "pocket passers" left besides Brady but they don't want to listen.

Total nonsense. Rodgers, Ben, Ryan, Carr, Stafford would much prefer to stay in the pocket. Defenses dare passing QBs to run. A game doesnt go by without seeing nothing but 10 - 20 yards of real estate in front of a QB as he tries to locate a receiver. According to you, a QB is no longer a pocket passer because he takes what the defense is giving him. You win championships by passing the ball and keeping your head down. It took Rodgers 16 seasons to accumulate approximately 3000 rushing yards. Lamar Jackson got there in 2.5 seasons. Rodgers took the Packers to the 2020 NFC Championship because he threw 48 TDs. Not because he ran for 3 TDs. Any Head Coach with brain cells does not want the franchise subject to anymore punishment than necessary. Except in Lamars case.

Run Lamar run. The bottom line is that the NFL is a PASSING LEAGUE. Left Tackles do not earn a Kings ransom because they are awesome run blockers. That has not changed. Running QBs do not last in the NFL.

 

[amfootball]

I love to watch Lamar Jackson play. He is very spectacular.

However, he is a very "meh" passer. When some of the speed goes, he is done.

Yep. Exactly how I feel. He is must watch!