OT: Fields looked really good in preseason debut

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Bucs also benefited from very good health last year, both Covid and non-Covid. They also benefited greatly in the playoffs from playing on the road without fans. If the stands were packed with rabid fans in New Orleans and Green Bay, there is a pretty good chance they never make it to the Super Bowl. Those are both basically neutral site games. They deserve to be among the top 2 to 3 favorites this year but I expect them to struggle more than most anticipate, including in week 4.

I am not sure why so many here and elsewhere are just assuming that Tampa is going to roll over the Patriots. Even with the talent gap, I am very confident that Belichick will come up with a game plan to confuse and frustrate Brady….We have seen this several times when the Patriots have faced ex-Pats coordinators. In my opinion, the game will come down to whether the Bucs offense can make the necessary adjustments (certainly possible) and whether the Patriots offense can score enough points (not a sure thing by any means) to eek out a W.

They won’t roll over the Pats. I think the Pats will beat them in a close game…home-field is huge. The Pats matchup well with them with Gilmore and Jackson. Even if you predict the Pats are a .500 team, that would mean an elite team playing them in Foxboro is a close margin. Caveat: if the Patriots run defense is lacking, then it could be a lopsided Bucs win, but I don’t expect that.

But I disagree about the Bucs overall…they’re cruising to the #1 seed. Between their schedule and talent level, this will be one of those teams that separates from everyone else (though possibly gets taken down in the end, like others who have done it), provided health holds up.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The one thing I can say with certainty is that unless absolutely necessary, Jones won't make his first start Week 4.

 

[DarrylS]

Accidentally tuned into Felger yesterday afternoon, he was ranting and raving about how the Pats should have traded up to get Fields and how well he played last week. "BB got fleeced again blah, blah, blah. Using all kind of charts and values to justify his position blah, blah, blah.

He played well, but it was an exhibition game.. let him start a couple in the regular season before he is anointed as the best draft pick.

Unfortunately, this will be a talking point today for the rest of sports talk radio..

 

[moosekill]

Accidentally tuned into Felger yesterday afternoon, he was ranting and raving about how the Pats should have traded up to get Fields and how well he played last week. "BB got fleeced again blah, blah, blah. Using all kind of charts and values to justify his position blah, blah, blah.

He played well, but it was an exhibition game.. let him start a couple in the regular season before he is anointed as the best draft pick.

Unfortunately, this will be a talking point today for the rest of sports talk radio..

Thing is Fields didn’t play all that well. But it was a preseason game.

 

[Sicilian]

If we're not 3-0 heading into the TB game, then we're not really a serious contender for even a Wild Card spot.

This is a bit harsh. At the least I'll offer two caveats to this position:

1) If we're something like 1-2 with Cam really struggling, and make the switch to Mac, the rest of the season can go very differently. Not saying they win week 4, but they could bounce back after that.

2) You can never assume 3-0, even if you're favored in all three games. Especially when the first game of the year is a division game against a team that won 10 games last year. Division games are weird because of the familiarity between the teams, and week 1 games are weird because teams down always know who they are yet. We've seen 14-2 Super Bowl winning Patriots teams lose 31-0 on opening day to a Buffalo team that was worse than the 2021 Dolphins. Pats should be favored, but it's not time to make knee jerk reactions if they lose what always amounts to a coin flip type of game, historically.

 

[sb1]

They won’t roll over the Pats. I think the Pats will beat them in a close game…home-field is huge. The Pats matchup well with them with Gilmore and Jackson. Even if you predict the Pats are a .500 team, that would mean an elite team playing them in Foxboro is a close margin. Caveat: if the Patriots run defense is lacking, then it could be a lopsided Bucs win, but I don’t expect that.

But I disagree about the Bucs overall…they’re cruising to the #1 seed. Between their schedule and talent level, this will be one of those teams that separates from everyone else (though possibly gets taken down in the end, like others who have done it), provided health holds up.

I think this game goes just like the Chiefs game did last year. Pats hang around for most of the game, maybe even lead for a bit but the Bucs end up pulling away later in the 4th quarter. I think the Pats defense can give Brady and the Bucs offense a tough game but I don't think Cam has what it takes to outscore TB and the Bucs defense is really good anyway.

Still amazing that a Hoyer and Stidham QB'ed game was trailing the Chiefs by only 3 with 9 minutes left in the 4th.

 

[Sicilian]

I think this game goes just like the Chiefs game did last year. Pats hang around for most of the game, maybe even lead for a bit but the Bucs end up pulling away later in the 4th quarter. I think the Pats defense can give Brady and the Bucs offense a tough game but I don't think Cam has what it takes to outscore TB and the Bucs defense is really good anyway.

Still amazing that a Hoyer and Stidham QB'ed game was trailing the Chiefs by only 3 with 9 minutes left in the 4th.

This is one of those games where if it were later in the year, I'd feel better about it. But the Patriots are integrating 4 new skill position players who will likely be among their top 6 targets and who haven't played with either of their potential starting QBs (which is also something that needs to be sorted out). Meanwhile the Bucs are returning all of their starters from last year. That's the kind of thing that heavily favors the team with continuity early in the season.

As for the game itself, they do matchup fairly well defensively assuming Gilmore is back. They have the secondary to stay competitive with the Bucs weapons. I don't mean they'd shut them down, or that they could hold it up for 60 minutes if the offense isn't giving them any time, but on paper it's not a horrible mismatch. Where they'll struggle is on offense, because what will be their bread and butter this year (running game and power football), plays right into the teeth of what the Bucs D does best (#1 run defense the last two years).

I think they can keep it close if they play to their potential, but to win they'll need a lucky bounce or a few big ST plays, IMO. Again, if the game were in November, I might feel differently, but it's a tall order asking them to gel enough by week 4 to really dictate play against the defending champs.

 

[amfootball]

They won’t roll over the Pats. I think the Pats will beat them in a close game…home-field is huge. The Pats matchup well with them with Gilmore and Jackson. Even if you predict the Pats are a .500 team, that would mean an elite team playing them in Foxboro is a close margin. Caveat: if the Patriots run defense is lacking, then it could be a lopsided Bucs win, but I don’t expect that.

But I disagree about the Bucs overall…they’re cruising to the #1 seed. Between their schedule and talent level, this will be one of those teams that separates from everyone else (though possibly gets taken down in the end, like others who have done it), provided health holds up.

I think the Bucs are going to roll big time. Some of that home field will be rooting for Brady. I think as much as Brady has been amped for playoff games, he will be more amped for this one.

 

[50-yard-line]

They are the defending champs, but that was last year and they were a Wild Card team and I wouldn't say they were one of the stronger Super Bowl winners in history

And the Bucs do have a very good defense, but they are not the 85 Bears. I don't look at their defense as an all time top defense like the 2003 Patriots, the Steel Curtain defense, 2013 Seahawks, etc. I don't even know if they are the best defense in the league this year or last. And Suh, JPP, and David are on the wrong side of 30 and could hit the age wall this year (although Suh has been on the decline for several years already). And maybe as world champions, they don't play with the same sense of urgency. We have seen this in the past that a team wins the Super Bowl and rests on its laurels.

But even if they are the same team they were in the playoffs, it is kinda silly to say no rookie QB is ready to face the Bucs. Sure you can say, they are odds are good that they will lose and not play well because they will be out matched. But that is far different than saying they aren't ready to play the Bucs and, in fact, it isn't impossible that could even outplay Brady in a head to head match up and their team beat the Bucs.

The Bucs are one of the two or three top teams in the NFL going into the season, but that doesn't mean they will be when the season goes along. And even if they are, I don't see them as this unstoppable juggernaut that only a season pro QB could even think to face.

And if all you are saying is Jones has no shot of beating the Bucs, I would say he has a better shot that Cam Newton if the Bucs turn the game into a shoot out.

Not to diminish the Bucs, because this is often true, but in the playoffs last year, their DBs had one play: grab and hang on. At some points, it was so ridiculous, i was laughing out loud - and I wanted Brady to get that ring, so it wasn't negative bias.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not to diminish the Bucs, because this is often true, but in the playoffs last year, their DBs had one play: grab and hang on. At some points, it was so ridiculous, i was laughing out loud - and I wanted Brady to get that ring, so it wasn't negative bias.

Their DBs are still a liability…I don’t buy that they suddenly improved so much. They’re not a terrible unit but probably not average either. They lack anything close to a shutdown CB. If Winfield Jr makes the expected improvement, they secondary will be a lot better but still not great overall.

I was hoping the Patriots would trade them for Mike Edward’s, their backup FS who is used in dime packages…dude is really good and would start on most teams.

Back to the point…their front 7 is so good because of Vea, David and White, three very unique players. The pass rushers help but it’s those guys who make it all work. The incredibly stout run defense makes teams one-dimensional, and the pass rush is lights out when that happens. If teams can make it into a normal run/pass balance and effectively establish a run/short yardage game, they’re vulnerable. But it’s easier said than done.

This is a game where Newton would get trucked. Think of SB50 but a slower, older version of him.

 

[Rob0729]

Not to diminish the Bucs, because this is often true, but in the playoffs last year, their DBs had one play: grab and hang on. At some points, it was so ridiculous, i was laughing out loud - and I wanted Brady to get that ring, so it wasn't negative bias.

Like a lot teams, including the Patriots, the Bucs had a lot of things go their way last year that definitely aided their Super Bowl run. It happens most year that luck and good fortune plays into a Super Bowl run. But it doesn't diminish the achievement. And I wanted Brady to win too since the Pats had no shot at winning.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Like a lot teams, including the Patriots, the Bucs had a lot of things go their way last year that definitely aided their Super Bowl run. It happens most year that luck and good fortune plays into a Super Bowl run. But it doesn't diminish the achievement. And I wanted Brady to win too since the Pats had no shot at winning.

Yes and no. They were lucky in some ways, like you said. The health factor was big as they got Vea back unexpectedly and the Packers (Bakhriari) and Chiefs (Fisher) both went down at the worst t

At the same time, facing a gauntlet of Brees, Rodgers, and Mahomes, is brutal and unlucky, even if you are a wild card and HFA is mitigated.

But yeah, in the end, every salary cap Super Bowl winner needs to be lucky with a the way a ball bounces here or there. The Bucs will probably be more dominant in 2021 and yet this story has played out many times with teams coming up short.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yes and no. They were lucky in some ways, like you said. The health factor was big as they got Vea back unexpectedly and the Packers (Bakhriari) and Chiefs (Fisher) both went down at the worst t

At the same time, facing a gauntlet of Brees, Rodgers, and Mahomes, is brutal and unlucky, even if you are a wild card and HFA is mitigated.

But yeah, in the end, every salary cap Super Bowl winner needs to be lucky with a the way a ball bounces here or there. The Bucs will probably be more dominant in 2021 and yet this story has played out many times with teams coming up short.

Agree - except that facing Brees in the playoffs last year was a gift to the other team. He couldn't throw the ball.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread has turned very amusing with the attempts to diminish the Bucs, who destroyed the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, while pimping the Patriots, who've shown jack ****. Keep it going.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes and no. They were lucky in some ways, like you said. The health factor was big as they got Vea back unexpectedly and the Packers (Bakhriari) and Chiefs (Fisher) both went down at the worst t

At the same time, facing a gauntlet of Brees, Rodgers, and Mahomes, is brutal and unlucky, even if you are a wild card and HFA is mitigated.

But yeah, in the end, every salary cap Super Bowl winner needs to be lucky with a the way a ball bounces here or there. The Bucs will probably be more dominant in 2021 and yet this story has played out many times with teams coming up short.

They faced Brees when he clearly was on his legs. He made Cam Newton look like a good passer at that point. And he faced Mahomes without his starting tackles and him with a significant turf toe injury that required surgery after the season. Again, that goes to them having the breaks on their way to a Super Bowl.

 

[Rob0729]

This thread has turned very amusing with the attempts to diminish the Bucs, who destroyed the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, while pimping the Patriots, who've shown jack ****. Keep it going.

You might want to look in the mirror. Yes, they destroyed the Chiefs, but it was the Chiefs without either starting tackle and Mahomes with turf toe. They might have beaten the Chiefs if the Chiefs were at full strength, but it wouldn't have been the blow out it was.

Sorry if you see stating the fact of their Super Bowl run is diminishing their accomplishments. But then again, that goes against you ridiculous argument that any team with a rookie QB who face the Bucs this year should sit them that game because a rookie QB isn't prepared to face the Bucs as if they are some kind of super team that would permanently destroy a young QB or something.

You know what? The Patriots have had similar luck over the years and other teams have had similar luck to rip the Super Bowl away from them (like the Super Bowl in the 2007 season where Brady was hobbled with a high ankle sprain). That is how the NFL works.

 

[Deus Irae]

They faced Brees when he clearly was on his legs. He made Cam Newton look like a good passer at that point. And he faced Mahomes without his starting tackles and him with a significant turf toe injury that required surgery after the season. Again, that goes to them having the breaks on their way to a Super Bowl.

The Saints had taken out the Bucs twice in the regular season, so the Brees argument doesn't even come close to holding water.
They held Mahomes to the lowest output of his NFL career, regardless of all the other games where he had an injured supporting cast.



But, please, do continue.

 

[Deus Irae]

You might want to look in the mirror.

I don't need to. I'm not the one making some of the most asinine posts in the history of exhibition season analysis.

 

[Rob0729]

The Saints had taken out the Bucs twice in the regular season, so the Brees argument doesn't even come close to holding water.
They held Mahomes to the lowest output of his NFL career, regardless of all the other games where he had an injured supporting cast.



But, please, do continue.

Brees played the Bucs earlier in the season. His play fell off especially after he spent a month on injured reserve. There is a reason he retired after losing the NFCCG. He saw what we all saw. His play was diminished that he was a shell of his former self.

And a week or two after the Super Bowl, Mahomes had foot surgery. He injured his foot at the end of the AFCCG and people were initially wondering after that game if he was going to even play in the Super Bowl which neither of his tackles played which allowed the Bucs' defense to pin their ears back. You can say that Mahomes had his lowest output of his career, but without recognizing those things as facts makes your point something it isn't. As far as I can remember, Mahomes hadn't had an injury that required surgery up until this injury.

You are basing your ridiculous premise on no rookie QB is ready to face the Bucs based on them stopping a clearly done Drew Brees and a hobbled Mahomes without 2/5 of his starting line as if they stopped Brees circa 2015 and a full strength and healthy Chiefs' offense.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't need to. I'm not the one making some of the most asinine posts in the history of exhibition season analysis.

So it was someone else who made the ridiculous claim that no rookie QB is ready to face the Bucs? Did you get the idiot's name who did so we can both tell him that he made some of the most asinine posts in the history of exhibition season analysis.

Did you hear him Bill? Don't start Mac Jones vs the Bucs or he will be mentally damaged forever.