OT: BRADY or PAPI....

[TyronePoole]

Neither did Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc etc.

All of these characters will be in the HOF

edit - and on the off chance that one of them won't it's only because they are the first wave of known steroid guys

 

[Ring 6]

Ortiz will get in, and might be first-ballot after this latest run. His postseason performances set him apart from a lot of the other top hitters in the league, as well as the fact that he's been the face of one of the most storied teams in the league for the past decade, during which they won 3 titles. Suggesting that he won't get in at all is just crazy.

Yeah I just don't think the numbers, it the steroid era, are enough.
And the positive test may totally rule him out based on how the voting has gone.

Aside from your proclamation that you know the future, we will just have to wait and see how the voters act.

 

[Ring 6]

All of these characters will be in the HOF

what do you base that on? voters are shunning them.

 

[ausbacker]

Damn, you just ruined my closing argument i was setting him up nicely before you blew it up.

Feel free to paraphrase in your own words coolguy. It's always interesting to read the thoughts of others regarding a subject on which we agree upon.

 

[Ring 6]

No he wasn't

"On the same day, the Major League Baseball Players Association issued a statement[16] pointing out that because of several factors, any player appearing on the list compiled by the federal government in 2003 did not necessarily test positive for performance enhancing drugs. Among those factors were that the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive. In addition, there were questions raised regarding the lab that performed the testing and their interpretation of the positive tests. Also, the statement pointed out that certain legal supplements that were available over the counter at the time could possibly cause a positive test result."

He admitted to a positive test.

 

[coolguy]

Yeah I just don't think the numbers, it the steroid era, are enough.
And the positive test may totally rule him out based on how the voting has gone.

Aside from your proclamation that you know the future, we will just have to wait and see how the voters act.

"On the same day, the Major League Baseball Players Association issued a statement[16] pointing out that because of several factors, any player appearing on the list compiled by the federal government in 2003 did not necessarily test positive for performance enhancing drugs. Among those factors were that the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive. In addition, there were questions raised regarding the lab that performed the testing and their interpretation of the positive tests. Also, the statement pointed out that certain legal supplements that were available over the counter at the time could possibly cause a positive test result."

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, I hope you realize the same argument you're trying to use for the importance of Brady can be directly applied to Big Papi?

The simple reality is players combine to put teams in a position to succeed. You can make the argument that Brady and Ortiz are as important as each other given their performances in the post-season and obvious visibility.

To me, arguing that one is more important than the other is absurd. They operate under different conditions to provide the same outcome. I'm happy that both are Boston legends.

The argument that the GOAT at the most important position on the field cannot be applied to the best hitter on the team that doesnt play the field and was one of maybe the top 50 hitters of his era.

 

[coolguy]

He admitted to a positive test.

positive for what? there are many banned substances. Lets not pretend jerome bettis wasn't using his inhaler to get a boost.

For all we know it could have been crack or weed.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ortiz doesn't have a moat ... so ...

Seriously ... it's like apples and oranges ...

There's no need or reason to compare ...

Both current icons for their teams but Brady is the top icon ever for his team.

Ortiz is more Boston ambassador than Brady ...

Brady is more accomplished than Ortiz in his sport.

Ortiz seeks out the media more than Brady who is more reserved ...

Like I said .... no need to compare really and 2 very different individuals.

 

[Ring 6]

"On the same day, the Major League Baseball Players Association issued a statement[16] pointing out that because of several factors, any player appearing on the list compiled by the federal government in 2003 did not necessarily test positive for performance enhancing drugs. Among those factors were that the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive. In addition, there were questions raised regarding the lab that performed the testing and their interpretation of the positive tests. Also, the statement pointed out that certain legal supplements that were available over the counter at the time could possibly cause a positive test result."

He admitted he failed the test.

 

[coolguy]

The argument that the GOAT at the most important position on the field cannot be applied to the best hitter on the team that doesnt play the field and was one of maybe the top 50 hitters of his era.

Tom brady has not won a superbowl without a elite defense.

Big papi is the greatest dh of all time

 

[Brady6]

Who means more to Boston? Both have won three championships for Boston and are legends in their own right.... Either way we are lucky fans to have both those players playing for our teams but who will have their face in the Mount Rushmore of Boston sports first?

I know a lot of people are fired up because the Red Sox just won the World Series but this question is borderline absurd, David Ortiz is not a pitcher or a positional player he goes up and swings the bat 3-4 times a game although his contributions are very impressive they’re 1 dimensional and he is certainly not hoisting the Sox on his back and carrying them to the Championship.

In addition Ortiz has a history PED’s, is consistently criticized for being out of shape and he is not exactly a role model in the community despite the “this is our ******* city” comment.

Any way to answer your question it is Tom Brady and it is not even close, in my opinion Dustin Pedrioa means more to the Sox and Boston than Ortiz.

 

[Ring 6]

positive for what? there are many banned substances. Lets not pretend jerome bettis wasn't using his inhaler to get a boost.

For all we know it could have been crack or weed.

It doesnt matter. It is only relevant to the fact that he will be lumped in with others who failed PED tests by HOF voters.
That is the only point of it being in this discussion....how it would affect his HOF chances.

 

[TyronePoole]

what do you base that on? voters are shunning them.

I edited my last post, maybe spoke too soon on Sosa and McGwire. My original point is, taking Ortiz's numbers at face value he's nowhere near HOF status but possibly will be because I don't think they'll be posturing as much about PEDs in 10 years time and they're stupid enough to think that winning 3 World Series is somehow a validation beyond his 44 WAR. The bottom line is he's nowhere close to as valuable to the Red Sox as about 7-10 Quarterbacks currently in the NFL let alone Brady over the past 12 years.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

if we are talking championships, most people in Boston would find the 2004 world series a greater feat than the pats 2001 championship. Only because of the 86 year curse thing....

i think boston has and always will be a red sox town.

 

[Ring 6]

Tom brady has not won a superbowl without a elite defense.

Big papi is the greatest dh of all time

What is your point?

And you should look at that 2001 defense before calling it elite.

Why would not winning a SB with a bad defense be a negative? Who has?

Best QB of alltime vs best DH of alltime is a pretty funny argument.

 

[TyronePoole]

Tom brady has not won a superbowl without a elite defense.

Big papi is the greatest dh of all time

Who's the tallest midget of all time?

Ortiz has never won a World Series without elite pitching, plus defense, a great offense etc.

lol at this argument

 

[Patsrock]

Also since the cap began

21 NFL teams have made Super Bowl
18 MLB teams made World Series

So again not much difference


Made playoffs
NFL-all teams have
MLB-all teams except Toronto have made playoffs

So again no difference

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Tom brady has not won a superbowl without a elite defense.

2001's 24th-ranked defense was "elite"?

2011's 31st -ranked defense that was a Welker drop away from a title was elite?

really?

 

[ausbacker]

The argument that the GOAT at the most important position on the field cannot be applied to the best hitter on the team that doesnt play the field and was one of maybe the top 50 hitters of his era.

Andy, you're embarrassing yourself. The question was who means more to Boston? The use of GOAT versus HOF is not applicable. Both are as important to their organizations as one another. In my eyes, both are Boston legends and have claims to an equal share of Boston importance.

If I'm going to choose one ahead of the other it would be Brady only because the Patriots are my #1 team. I can easily see why others would think it's Papi.

Really, it's absurd that people feel the need to put both down. Both are leaders of their respective teams. Both will go down as Boston legends. Both brought success to teams that were sorely crying out for it.