OT: Baker traded to Panthers

[XLIX]

Point being that Kraft was charged and arraigned. Kraft lawyer: Patriots owner will not appear at arraignment for soliciting prostitution

Watson was not.

So they're both not guilty in the eyes of the law. Being charged and arraigned doesn't count for sh*t in terms of establishing guilt.

 

[Rob0729]

Point being that Kraft was charged and arraigned. Kraft lawyer: Patriots owner will not appear at arraignment for soliciting prostitution

Watson was not.

Kraft walked a free man because the evidence was thrown out. Watson should be afforded the same treatment or at most a small suspension.

First, Watson is accused of something(s) far more serious than what Kraft was charged with. Kraft was basically charged with solicitation. He had consenting sexual contact with a sex worker. Watson is accused of sexually assaulting or even raping dozens of women.

Second, there was actual video evidence of Kraft being at the the establishment and more. The problem with Watson's situation is it is 100% he said/she said. The prosecutor could believe Watson is 1,000% guilty of sexual assault or even rape and cannot bring charges if there isn't enough evidence for there to be a likelihood of a conviction. Prosecutors do not bring cases they know might not even make it to trial for lack of evidence even if they know the suspect is 100% guilty.

Third, the NFL doesn't have the same standards as the criminal justice system. If they believe Watson is guilty of sexual assault and/or rape, they can punish him to the maximum of what is allowed to them under the CBA without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If the NFL believes the women's stories, they can pretty much punish Watson without any actual proof. He could have it overturned on appeal, but the NFL doesn't have a legal standard for evidence.

Fourth, Watson is a player. Kraft is an owner. Like it or not, the players have agreed to a code of conduct standard that they must adhere to that gives the league the ability to punish them accordingly. It is in a legally binding contract between the league and players. Also, players have a morals clause in their contracts. The owners have a collective bargaining agreement with the league stating what their code of conduct is and remedies on how to resolve any violations of the code. It may be a double standard, but it is a double standard the players agreed to.

I still think Kraft and Watson are false equivalences. Whatever you think of what Kraft did, it appears to be a single consensual act. What Watson is accused of is dozens of non-consensual acts that are at best sexual assault and at worst rape.

 

[rochrist]

Your boy Bobby Kraft WAS charged with a crime.

He sent one of his crack lawyers down to Florida on his behalf to do the paperwork to avoid showing up in person.

So poor pitiful penniless Watson can't afford crack lawyers?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bills we’re:

- 4th in the NFL in rushing 1st downs
- 6th in the NFL in rushing yards
- 5th in the NFL in rush yards per play

How much better do they need to be than that?

Singletary had a better year statistically than I initially thought with a 1,000 scrimmage yards and 8 TD's, but he still doesn't seem like a guy that is going to worry defenses. They drafted a guy in the 2nd round for a reason. Allen had almost 800 yards and 6 TD's on the ground which inflates their stats. I'm sure you'd want to see Allen cut back on the runs and either have a RB take those yards or it being through the air.

Diggs, Davis, Mckenzie, Knox has to be in the top 10 of receiving corps, no?

Diggs is elite, but after that it's nothing special. Davis has to step up and be an 800+ yard WR with all the attention on Diggs. Knox is not a WR.

They were the #1 defense in the NFL last year…

And they lost the game for them in humiliating fashion giving up 42 points and 7 of those in 13 seconds. What star players other than White kept offensive coordinators up at night? White returns, but they spent a lot of money on Von Miller for a reason. They need more headliners on D. Rousseau needs to break out. Before Miller, their LB's were meh. They can get run on and allowing 110 yards per game and 19 rushing TD's (6th worst in the NFL).

This is a debate that goes on occasionally regarding the Pats D. They ranked high in some categories, but their limitations got massively exposed by your team the Bills two straight times.

 

[Triumph]

So poor pitiful penniless Watson can't afford crack lawyers?

Since Watson was never charged or arraigned he didnt need them.

All there are is accusations against Watson. Unlike your idol * Bob Kraft.

 

[rochrist]

Since Watson was never charged or arraigned he didnt need them.

All there are is accusations against Watson. Unlike your idol * Bob Kraft.

Not my idol. But neither do I have an irrational frothing hatred of him either.

 

[captain stone]

...What Watson is accused of is dozens of non-consensual acts that are at best showing his weenie to his "masseuses"while asking them for a BJ or a Taint rub, and at worst rape.

fify

 

[mgteich]

So they intend on tanking?

You disagree with CLE actions. Ok. But, their clear plan was to sign Watson, to sign a backup, and to trade Mayfield.

I think that this has been one of the worst plans in the history of the NFL, but not wholly unforeseen for a team as poorly managed as CLE.
==========
SOME HISTORY

1) Have a team that is out of the playoffs no matter who is brought in. CLE fans endure.

2) Bring in a top young QB in Mayfield. CLE fans cheer.

3) Mayfield leads CLE to the playoffs. CLE fans go wild.

4) Mayfield is injured, and plays injured. His season is not as good as his previous season. CLE understand and wait for 2022 playoffs.

5) CLE management goes back to normal. CLE fans go back to endure mode.

Call it tanking. Call it business as unusual for CLE.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

So poor pitiful penniless Watson can't afford crack lawyers?

He's got the most expensive lawyer in town... Rusty Hardin, who defended Roger Clemens in the PED thing

 

[Triumph]

Jackson has a higher comp %, ANY/A, AY/A, Y/A, Almost 30 less sacks, has brought his team to the playoffs multiple years, has an MVP and was in the convo for MVP last year before he got hurt.

Jackson has 1 post season win. He folds when the chips are down and especially in the cold.

Mayfield has 1 playoff win and he was cheated # 2 win in KC.

1 The KC defense hit Mayfield 2 times in the head and no call.
2 Sorenson hit Rashad Higgins at the goaline helmet to helmet. Higgins fumbles out of the endzone giving KC the ball. No call for the hit, no fine, no nothing.

 

[Triumph]

Not my idol. But neither do I have an irrational frothing hatred of him either.

Of course.

He isnt the owner of a different NFL team.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jackson has 1 post season win. He folds when the chips are down and especially in the cold.

Mayfield has 1 playoff win and he was cheated # 2 win in KC.

1 The KC defense hit Mayfield 2 times in the head and no call.
2 Sorenson hit Rashad Higgins at the goaline helmet to helmet. Higgins fumbles out of the endzone giving KC the ball. No call for the hit, no fine, no nothing.

I understand you and others just don't like Jackson and that's fine. We all have our bias. He's certainly not a perfect QB by any means but the below still stands suggesting he's been a better QB

"higher comp %, ANY/A, AY/A, Y/A, Almost 30 less sacks, has brought his team to the playoffs multiple years, has an MVP and was in the convo for MVP last year before he got hurt."

It's great to have an opinion but this is one of those where you're on an island by yourself. Which is fine, sometimes. No credible football person would hold the opinion Baker > Lamar.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I understand you and others just don't like Jackson and that's fine. We all have our bias. He's certainly not a perfect QB by any means but the below still stands suggesting he's been a better QB

"higher comp %, ANY/A, AY/A, Y/A, Almost 30 less sacks, has brought his team to the playoffs multiple years, has an MVP and was in the convo for MVP last year before he got hurt."

It's great to have an opinion but this is one of those where you're on an island by yourself. Which is fine, sometimes. No credible football person would hold the opinion Baker > Lamar.

Agreed. Baker is not > Lamar. But Baker is bad enough to get himself jettisoned, and Lamar might be good enough to keep but never win it all. In that way, restarting with Watson, even in 2023, might be the better move over 10 years. So Baker being bad enough actually forces the situation that is better than Lamar.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Watson must be getting a slap on the wrist.

Lol. Another good call by you. You were only off by 2 months. At least you got an “agree” click from the Captain…ie. the booby prize. Hahaha.

 

[Triumph]

Lol. Another good call by you. You were only off by 2 months. At least you got an “agree” click from the Captain…ie. the booby prize. Hahaha.

Yo nummy

Talks resumed in June. Watson was traded on 7/6 only weeks after the Browns got serious. Of course the Browns have been shopping Mayfield for months. This is somehow news to the ignorant. Congratulations again.

 

[Bill Lee]

So Watson is innocent of any crimes. You might be tired of the "defense", but that is what makes our system great. There is nothing "sorry" about innocent until proven guilty. Watson is innocent of any crimes as he was never indicted.

I guess you missed this bit:

Harris County district attorney: Lack of indictment by grand jury was not an exoneration of Deshaun Watson

Some, including attorney Rusty Hardin, want people to believe that the decision of a pair of Texas grand juries to not indict Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson means that Watson has been exonerated.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

The DA in charge of this exact case clearly says the lack of indictment is not an exoneration.

"Innocent of any crimes" is an over-simplification of the situation, IMO.

Are you also willing to die on the "OJ is innocent" hill?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I guess you missed this bit:

Harris County district attorney: Lack of indictment by grand jury was not an exoneration of Deshaun Watson

Some, including attorney Rusty Hardin, want people to believe that the decision of a pair of Texas grand juries to not indict Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson means that Watson has been exonerated.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

The DA in charge of this exact case clearly says the lack of indictment is not an exoneration.

"Innocent of any crimes" is an over-simplification of the situation, IMO.

Are you also willing to die on the "OJ is innocent" hill?

Now Watson is OJ? That says everything about how you twisted yourself into a pretzel. Too funny.

 

[Bill Lee]

Now Watson is OJ? That says everything about how you twisted yourself into a pretzel. Too funny.

Where did I say "Watson is OJ"?

I just asked you about your feelings on the OJ situation, albeit in a provocative way.

Your reply says more about your urge to try to slam-dunk than anything I said.

The point is, after his criminal trial, OJ could also say he was "innocent of any crimes".

He still could, right up to those incidents in LV landed him in jail.

Yet he was found liable in civil court with regards to the death of his wife and her friend.

Watson is "innocent of any crimes" but also making out-of-court settlements so he doesn't get hit by huge amounts of liability in civil court.

There are definitely analogies to be drawn IMO, but I never said "Watson is OJ", that's on you.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Where did I say "Watson is OJ"?

I just asked you about your feelings on the OJ situation, albeit in a provocative way.

Your reply says more about your urge to try to slam-dunk than anything I said.

The point is, after his criminal trial, OJ could also say he was "innocent of any crimes".

He still could, right up to those incidents in LV landed him in jail.

Yet he was found liable in civil court with regards to the death of his wife and her friend.

Watson is "innocent of any crimes" but also making out-of-court settlements so he doesn't get hit by huge amounts of liability in civil court.

There are definitely analogies to be drawn IMO, but I never said "Watson is OJ", that's on you.

There are few, if any, analogies. I guess they are both NFL football players so they have that in common.

 

[venecol]

Watson is "innocent of any crimes" but also making out-of-court settlements so he doesn't get hit by huge amounts of liability in civil court.

Would you say that Watson is innocent if he prevails in the civil court cases?

Innocence is a interesting topic. In the eyes of many, he's already guilty, regardless of the outcome of criminal or civil cases. No matter what happens, he'll always be viewed as a sexual deviant, so he already lost his reputation. He could adopt 100 Somali orphans and it won't change this for the people that already made up their minds.