Onwenu at Right Tackle

[PatsFan2]

Use Douglas, Bourne, Thornton, and Reagor

Thanks I should have known.

 

[n6249c]

And I suppose you know that Boutte has shown in practice that he understands all the routes, and won't make such a mistake?

Boutte is not even on the radar, other than as a PS emergency.

Neither of us knows, either way.

I’m assuming Boutte has improved since he last saw the field.

Thornton screwed up when he saw the field in in the last game played.

If Boutte is still having problems in practice sit them both and play Parker or Juju until either Boutte or Thornton shows they can be trusted not to screw up.

 

[upstater1]

Neither of us knows, either way.

I’m assuming Boutte has improved since he last saw the field.

Thornton screwed up when he saw the field in in the last game played.

If Boutte is still having problems in practice sit them both and play Parker or Juju until either Boutte or Thornton shows they can be trusted not to screw up.

So did Douglas.

Do you sit Douglas too?

 

[n6249c]

So did Douglas.

Do you sit Douglas too?

How did Douglas screw up? When did he run the wrong route?

 

[upstater1]

How did Douglas screw up? When did he run the wrong route?

When Mac pulled the ball back and it fell out of his hands. He went over to Douglas and started yelling at him. It was a 3rd down play and it ended the drive.

 

[n6249c]

When Mac pulled the ball back and it fell out of his hands. He went over to Douglas and started yelling at him. It was a 3rd down play and it ended the drive.

TL;DR: nbd, no reason to sit Douglas.

That was Mac and Pop not being on the same page about how to respond to the way the defender played the route. I don’t think that’s the same as running the wrong route. When I hear ”ran the wrong route” I’m thinking that he ran a go when the QB called an out or slant, or something basic like that. That’s not the same as he ran the slant the QB called but read and reacted differently than the QB to the way the defender played it.

I think this is the play you’re talking about. To me it’s not clear either player was wrong, they each probably had some reason they thought their choice was right. They just weren’t on the same page.

There might have been one such instance during Sunday’s upset win over the Bills. On a third-and-2 late in the first half, Douglas broke toward the sideline on a short option route rather than sitting down in a soft spot in Buffalo’s zone coverage. The result:

This is on Pop. He's facing outside leverage from the CB, and Mac is expecting him to sit. As Mac gets ready to throw it, Pop doesn't sit. That's why Mac pulled back and was pissed.

Why Mac Jones Has Unique View On Demario Douglas Breakout

 

[upstater1]

TL;DR: nbd, no reason to sit Douglas.

??

I didn't think they should sit Douglas either. I was just referring to one mistake benching Thornton (to be clear, I don't know what that was on Thornton's part).

 

[Thelonious]

It seems, on the basis admittedly of the very slight insight we have into who decides what, that the O-line has been slow to find solutions to problems. There have no doubt been a lot of problems and a lot of injuries, and the talent is pretty weak, but I think it's fair to wonder what quality of work Klemm is actually doing in his new role. I wonder if anybody has better insight into this than I do.

The question which prompts my concern is, "Why did they not make the Owenu change sooner, given it is an approach that has worked in the past"? I don't recall Owenu's injury history this year. Maybe that explains it.

 

[n6249c]

It seems, on the basis admittedly of the very slight insight we have into who decides what, that the O-line has been slow to find solutions to problems. There have no doubt been a lot of problems and a lot of injuries, and the talent is pretty weak, but I think it's fair to wonder what quality of work Klemm is actually doing in his new role. I wonder if anybody has better insight into this than I do.

The question which prompts my concern is, "Why did they not make the Owenu change sooner, given it is an approach that has worked in the past"? I don't recall Owenu's injury history this year. Maybe that explains it.

I think Onwenu‘s injury history accounts for it. Missed almost all training camp. Inactive game 1. Hurt in game 5, inactive for game 6.

I think the main question for Klemm is what has he had to work with? Onwenu injured. Reiff injured. Anderson sick. Etc. etc.

 

[Ivan]

Read somewhere that Thornton ran the wrong route on one play last week. That shouldn’t happen. He’s had enough time to study the playbook. He had a chance and effed it. BB won’t be quick to give more chances until he shows he won’t eff them up. His speed doesn’t matter if he isn’t where he is supposed to be.

Boutte effed up not getting his feet down in bounds, and he’s been in timeout ever since. He may not be as fast but at least he was open and caught the ball on those plays, so presumably he ran the correct routes. I’d like to see if he’s learned to tap his toes. If he doesn’t perform give Thornton a chance, but for now I’d let him sit and study.

So you are saying that Thornton should be benched because someone said that he ran the wrong route?

 

[Ivan]

It seems, on the basis admittedly of the very slight insight we have into who decides what, that the O-line has been slow to find solutions to problems. There have no doubt been a lot of problems and a lot of injuries, and the talent is pretty weak, but I think it's fair to wonder what quality of work Klemm is actually doing in his new role. I wonder if anybody has better insight into this than I do.

The question which prompts my concern is, "Why did they not make the Owenu change sooner, given it is an approach that has worked in the past"? I don't recall Owenu's injury history this year. Maybe that explains it.

Scarnecchia was a fan of the Klemm hire, that’s good enough for me.

 

[Ivan]

Use Douglas, Bourne, Thornton, and Reagor

Use Thornton and Reagor to stretch defenses, and then use Douglas and Bourne underneath them.

 

[Thelonious]

Scarnecchia was a fan of the Klemm hire, that’s good enough for me.

It's a good point, for sure. With the roster as weak as it is, coaching this year will be a challenge, for the entire staff.

 

[n6249c]

So you are saying that Thornton should be benched because someone said that he ran the wrong route?

Yes. if he ran the wrong route that’s the kind of bad play that must be eliminated. It’s something that leads to turnovers, for one thing. For another it’s just plain sloppy. Thornton had three snaps. One screwup in three opportunities is not good.

I trust the coaches know what he was supposed to do. If the report is wrong they’ll know. But for discussion on this board I’ll accept it’s correct. Saw it two places. One said it happened on the last snap he played. That’s good enough for me, and I’d argue better than the justification for many posts on here.

 

[Ivan]

It's a good point, for sure. With the roster as weak as it is, coaching this year will be a challenge all year, for the entire staff.

I’m hoping that by the end of the season we are seeing a much better OL. And it should be easy to measure, as one of the big indicators will be penalties. Scar’s greatest strength wasn’t turning first round OL into All Pro’s, although he did do that, his great strength was turning ok OL into good OL, and average talent into a really good unit. And one of the biggest factors was not taking costly penalties at the worst times, which has often been the case since he retired. Klemm deserves time to get them working as a strong unit, we’ll see how that goes?

 

[n6249c]

Use Thornton and Reagor to stretch defenses, and then use Douglas and Bourne underneath them.

Substitute Boutte for Thornton. I don’t care who it is as long as the best four WRs are on the field together most of the time. Stretch the defenses with any combination that’s credible. But to be credible Mac has to show he can deliver the deep strike, and I’m not sure he’s done that enough to strike fear into opponents.

 

[Ivan]

Yes. if he ran the wrong route that’s the kind of bad play that must be eliminated. It’s something that leads to turnovers, for one thing. For another it’s just plain sloppy. Thornton had three snaps. One screwup in three opportunities is not good.

I trust the coaches know what he was supposed to do. If the report is wrong they’ll know. But for discussion on this board I’ll accept it’s correct. Saw it two places. One said it happened on the last snap he played. That’s good enough for me, and I’d argue better than the justification for many posts on here.

There is so much ******** out there that I can’t take that at face value unless it’s a source I trust. Ultimately I want all the young guys getting playing time, but right now I want them to play at a much faster speed than they have been. They have simply been too easy to defend against, and that needs to change. If nothing else at least threaten the defenses you are playing against.

 

[Ivan]

Substitute Boutte for Thornton. Stretch the defenses with any combination that’s credible. But to be credible Mac has to show he can deliver the deep strike, and I’m not sure he’s done that enough to strike fear into opponents.

We just disagree on this. Thornton is one of the fastest player’s in the league, and Boutte has the speed of a safety. Their possession receivers haven’t helped them a bit this year, go with guys who make defenses work.

 

[n6249c]

We just disagree on this. Thornton is one of the fastest player’s in the league, and Boutte has the speed of a safety. Their possession receivers haven’t helped them a bit this year, go with guys who make defenses work.

Yes we can agree to disagree. Speed is worthless if it doesn’t translate to catches. Haven’t seen that yet. Running the wrong route doesn’t help. I’d love to have him prove me wrong.

Meanwhile if Boutte can get open and catch the ball, or even catch it when he’s not open, I don’t care how slow the clock says he is. Again, need to see him perform. I’d like to see him get the chance.

whichever one gets the chance, I’ll be happy for them if they perform. And if they don’t I’ll be happy to see the other guy get his chance.

 

[upstater1]

Yes. if he ran the wrong route that’s the kind of bad play that must be eliminated. It’s something that leads to turnovers, for one thing. For another it’s just plain sloppy. Thornton had three snaps. One screwup in three opportunities is not good.

I trust the coaches know what he was supposed to do. If the report is wrong they’ll know. But for discussion on this board I’ll accept it’s correct. Saw it two places. One said it happened on the last snap he played. That’s good enough for me, and I’d argue better than the justification for many posts on here.

I just think the wind had everything to do with the number of snaps. Unlike the previous weeks, we didn't go downfield even once. And at the PC after the game, Belichick talked at length about the stiff wind.

Personally, I hate that kind of talk because you need a QB who can cut through the wind if you're playing in New England. It's useless to go into a game scared to throw long.