One last Gronk Suspension Question

[brdmaverick]

First and foremost, if you read any of my messages this past week I 100% agree with Gronk being suspended. It was an awful play. It was well after the play was over, was on a defenseless player who wasn't even looking, and resulted in an injury.

So that's not up for the debate, but the hypothetical that I'm struggling with is this..........

What if everything about the play stayed exactly the same except.....

1.) The Bills player remained inbounds (lying on the ground), arguably giving himself up by not attempting to get up.

2.) No Patriot touched him prior to the Gronk hit.

So in summary, the Bills player (White) makes the intercpetion while going to the ground and is not down (still a live play). Instead of merely touching him for a 'down by contact' Gronk downs hims with the hit that we've all seen.

It technically is a legal hit, so would there be any ramifications?

Would there be nothing (including no penalty)?

Or would there still be a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty?

Given that it was a live play I imagine a suspension is removed from consideration, or do you think he still gets suspended?

In that hypothetical scenario I think it would be a 15 yard penalty but in the actual scenario I agree with the suspension.

 

[Ring 6]

First and foremost, if you read any of my messages this past week I 100% agree with Gronk being suspended. It was an awful play. It was well after the play was over, was on a defenseless player who wasn't even looking, and resulted in an injury.

So that's not up for the debate, but the hypothetical that I'm struggling with is this..........

What if everything about the play stayed exactly the same except.....

1.) The Bills player remained inbounds (lying on the ground), arguably giving himself up by not attempting to get up.

2.) No Patriot touched him prior to the Gronk hit.

So in summary, the Bills player (White) makes the intercpetion while going to the ground and is not down (still a live play). Instead of merely touching him for a 'down by contact' Gronk downs hims with the hit that we've all seen.

It technically is a legal hit, so would there be any ramifications?

Would there be nothing (including no penalty)?

Or would there still be a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty?

Given that it was a live play I imagine a suspension is removed from consideration, or do you think he still gets suspended?

In that hypothetical scenario I think it would be a 15 yard penalty but in the actual scenario I agree with the suspension.

A few years ago wilfork was penalized for hitting a guy who was in the ground rather than tapping him.
I’m not going to get into is that would have changed things because I think suspending players for things like this is moronic.

 

[chasa]

gronk would be tarred and featered and forced to pull roger goodells private lifetime jet everywhere to went.

 

[brdmaverick]

Ya, I remember Lawyer Milloy laying a good hit on a Rams receiver (Bruce?) during Super Bowl 36 when a simple touch would have sufficed. It wasn't called a penalty then, or nor should it have.

I understand, that things have changed since 2001 and that player safety is at a premium. Which is why I think these days a similar play would be a 15 yard flag (for unnecessary roughness).

 

[Gronk]

In a world where you put the defender inbounds and strip all the context away, it’s a debatably late hit that might be flagged, depends totally on what the refs sees going towards the play. I don’t think it’s a things have changed since 2001 question so much as a things have changed since 1981 question. Even in your scenario it’s hard to escape the clear retaliatory nature of what Gronk did. The retaliatory/enforcer nature of Gronks actions would’ve been “part of the game” if it were **** Butkus era, but that’s been gone a long time.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It technically is a legal hit, so would there be any ramifications?

No, it is not "technically a legal hit". At best you could say "it's not a late hit" in your scenario.

The player not yet being downed doesn't make what Gronk did legal. You can't hit however you want just because a player wasn't touched down yet.

Your scenario doesn't make White any less defenseless and any more able to detect and protect against that dirty hit. And it doesn't provide Gronk any more justification for doing it, since he still could have just put a hand on White to touch him down in your scenario.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

We STILL simply would not know what to tell the CHILDREN!

 

[nabwong]

gronk would be tarred and featered and forced to pull roger goodells private lifetime jet everywhere to went.

 

[woolster22]

No, it is not "technically a legal hit". At best you could say "it's not a late hit" in your scenario.

The player not yet being downed doesn't make what Gronk did legal. You can't hit however you want just because a player wasn't touched down yet.

Your scenario doesn't make White any less defenseless and any more able to detect and protect against that dirty hit. And it doesn't provide Gronk any more justification for doing it, since he still could have just put a hand on White to touch him down in your scenario.

With the player falling as he caught the ball in the original scenario and recent rules re maintaining possession through the process of the catch...light em up. Maybe he's hobbling it beneath his chest but hasn't touched the ground. No whistle, no letting up. One of the refs most important jobs on each play is TO BLOW THE DAMN PLAY DEAD. Something they failed to do on the real play. All refs with responsibility of original plays calls should be suspended 1 week and barred from post season eligibility. That would be be handling a garbage situation with integrity. Instead, those with d holding/dpi and whistle responsibilities will have their grades adjusted and will be calling NE's divisional home game.

FFS, Ty Law would have drawn 2 flags minimum as the cb on that play in the early otts. In today's game those (plural) non calls are Donaghy level ********. Egregious and potentially game changing bungling of literally everything on the field for the refs that play. Brady irate and in their face, gronk tees off, Amendola boxing someone at midfield. All within 2 seconds of gronk getting tossed at the top of his route. That crew needs to be reprimanded. Can you imagine if they were in charge of the mnf tilt?

 

[Jlaff]

I just can't get over White's crying over all this. Don't poke the bear then - get better and stop holding. It's like slapping a biker in the face and getting mad when he breaks your nose for it.

 

[brdmaverick]

I just can't get over White's crying over all this. Don't poke the bear then - get better and stop holding. It's like slapping a biker in the face and getting mad when he breaks your nose for it.

So you are saying White shouldn't be irate in being the victim of an indisputably cheap and dirty hit?

 

[Jlaff]

So you are saying White shouldn't be irate in being the victim of an indisputably cheap and dirty hit?

I am. I'm saying he shouldn't be surprised Gronk gets mad and retaliates with a late hit after White and the Bills have been holding all game. Holding is "cheap" too. I think it's preposterous for White and the Bills to act like they were completely innocent (refs take some blame too), and basically "mindin' their business", and Gronk's reaction was totally out of left field. The only thing that wasn't proportionate was the unexpected result.

If you want an example in professional sports, look at how pissed off stars like Crosby in the NHL get when the other team is clutching and grabbing, hooking, and holding all game. Eventually a player gets fed up and does something.