Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Vikings beat the Pats

[PaulThePat]

Reg red zone woes - HH was robbed off one, Bourne was held in another which was a blatant PI. So it's 2/3 .

Just watching the highlights I was surprised (but not surprised!) that there was no PI on that play. I'm far from being any sort of rules expert but one thing I thought the defender had to do was turn his head to the ball - to at least pretend to be tracking it. For me he just pulled Bourne and bumped him several times while never turning.

 

[Patsfan177a]

Totally wrong.

The ball didn't move after it hit the ground. It only started moving AFTER he began to roll over. Any replay will show you this. The ground did not dislodge the ball.

Correct. The ball was actually knocked loose by the defender's helmet a split second after henry lifted the ball off the ground.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

I guess we’re still waiting for a game where all 3 phases play to their capability…

 

[catent]

People make too much of his emotions. You just described things Brady does when things go wrong. I mean I think Microsoft have taken a restraining order against Brady that he cannot be within 50 feet of a Surface tablet when he is upset.

(Not that this matters much as it relates to last night's game, because Mac was not the reason they lost).

To me it's less about the emotions themselves than how they're managed.

Brady would get angry/mad. Occasionally that came out in not-so-pleasant outbursts, but other times it came out as silent, laser focus. Even with Brady's outbursts, I never, ever got the impression that he was unsteady, lacking in poise, or overwhelmed by the moment.

To my eye, Mac doesn't get angry/mad; he gets upset. And it kind of spirals when adversity strikes and at times he seems to get overwhelmed and looks emotionally unsteady. I just worry those emotions aren't being managed particularly well at the moment. Emotional maturity is certainly something that can develop with time, though, and he's still a young person.

All of this goes without saying, but speculating on another person's emotional state is very subjective. While my subjective perception of Jones' emotions is speculative and potentially off-the-mark/meaningless, no one should confound that with the notion that Jones' emotions and how he manages them is irrelevant to his performance - it's a very big part of his (and every player's) on-field performance.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Pats were kicking too many FGs last night. Bill should have been more aggressive on 4th down, particularly in Vikings territory

 

[catent]

Trent Brown goes for a cut block with Mac looking to go downfield? That was a terrible play by Brown.

We really can't say without knowing what the play call was, and what Brown's responsibility was.

 

[Patsfan177a]

It still moved when he hit the ground. Right away on TV the ex-official called it a non catch. If that was on the Vikings we'd all be saying you need to survive the ground.

The ball can move as you and the ball touch the ground. As long as you maintain control while going down it is still a catch.

 

[Pats2000]

Kelces was ruled incorrectly. Hunters wasn't.

Run along.

Hunter survived the ground. He had his hand under the ball and was able to bring it in and secure it. That's was a catch. The ball can move and it can hit the ground as long as the ground doesn't assist the catch and as long as the receiver maintains possession in bounds. No, that was a piss poor ruling. That was a catch

 

[catent]

Mac is the least of this teams problem. Goodnight.

Certainly not the least of their problems, but he wasn't near the top of the list last night.

The least of their problems are players like Rham, Onwenu, Jonathan Jones - maybe throw in Guy/Godchaux - players who consistently do their job at their position at a relatively high level. Dependable, consistent, talented.

Mac definitely played his best game of the season last night, though, and this team will be in better shape if they get that from him on a consistent basis. Situational stuff, red area, and consistency across an entire game still needs work, though.

 

[JMC00]

Not gonna happen because of Agahlor hit

Agholor's is up after this season what are you on about?

 

[RIpats88]

The "zappy hour" crew really is insufferable. So much to talk about in this thread about why we lost and it's "Mac sucks" on a night he had 382 and 2TDs.

You guys really look for anything to disparage him? I don't get the zappe cult. We can talk about the defense, the special teams....Mac wasn't the problem.

Still pining over a 4 game streak. 2 of which were losses and one which the QB threw for 188 yards.

 

[1960Pats]

You can't just make up rules as you go along. The ball moved when he hit the ground. As much as it sucks for us that isn't a catch.

The NYFL and the officiating seems like it's being run by former New Jersey Jets. Oh wait, it is.

What I don't understand is how was the Henry play considered a pass? He was running with it and had control enough to stick the ball into the end zone for a TD before he was tackled. Henry wasn't finishing a catch. He had already done that. He should have been treated as a runner, in which case that would have been ruled a TD because he crossed the plane in control of the ball.

 

[Rob0729]

best Mac performance this year:

- 1st half against Baltimore
- first 3 quarters against Minnesota

What they have in common? They were both against the worst pass defense in the league at the time of the game.

He played very well today but Minnesota is not a good defense. Since people on this forum used the same argument to diminish what Zappe did. I think it’s only fair to put what Mac did in perspective.

In the end, we have an offense that can move the ball against the bottom third defense in the league and a defense that can shut down bottom third offense in the league and that’s about it.

People aren't making definitive statements about Mac Jones based on last night like people did with Zappe based the performance against two games. People are encouraged by his play last night and hope he can build on it, but I don't say anyone saying things like this is coming out party like this is the Mac Jones we are definitely going to see going forward. People were saying things like Zappe is clearly better than Jones and just can process things faster than Jones can and has a higher football IQ than Jones based on those games against bad defenses. That's the difference.

Yes, the Vikes have a bad pass defense, but Jones performed well above the averages that the Vikes usually give up. What does that mean going forward? Who knows? But Jones played great last night and don't get why you want to take it away from him. Just because you are Team Zappe.

The people who don't think Zappe should be the starter or think he is a starting QB didn't take his performances against the Browns and Lions away from him. From what I can see, most if not all gave him credit for the performances at the time of the games. They only used the quality of the opponents as an argument against why he should be a starter over Jones.

If you want to make an argument that the Vikes' pass defense sucks when debating someone saying that this is proof that Jones is a very good or great QB being held back by the o-line and coaching and this game shows it, saying the Vikes pass defense sucks as an argument against it is a valid argument. If you want to say Jones wasn't very good last night and it was just the Viking's defense that made him look good, then you are just a hater.

 

[lancerman]

Heres an idea. Why don't Offense, ST and D all try and show up in the same game. That would be just swell.
How does next week sound? Alrighty then.

Because this team feasts on poor units to average units, but then has a point where if a unit is good enough the dam breaks and they aren't talented enough to not get taken for a ride. We see it all the time lately. The defense gets this awesome rep for humiliating meh offenses. Then they go up against the Ravens, Vikings, or even Bears on a good day and they let them drop 30+ on us and start having break downs. Then our offense normally gets held in check by most good defenses we play all year... until we play mediocre passing defenses like the Vikings, The Browns who let half their opponents drop 30 on them, and Detroit whose Achilles heel has been their defense all year. Then our offense looks good. Once it's a solid defensive unit they have problems and everything stalls out.

This is the problem. They aren't ever going to show up altogether unless the opponent is mediocre in all phases of the game. There's a threshold of once they play a good opponent, the skill gaps start to reveal themselves and things pile up. It's why the last 2-3 years we had stretches where we played meh teams or maybe even a good team like the Ravens and Bills in bad weather and convinced ourselves that we were turning it around. Then we go up against a real contender in normal circumstances and can't get it done.

There's just a talent issue still and the coaching isn't overcoming it. They get us to a point. But all of a sudden we'll just start missing on enough of the plays to lose because the opponent is going to just out skill us on enough plays to make a difference on the score board. Also it doesn't help that it seem to have had issues in the hectic nature of coaching staff and aren't the disciplined team they usually are. And it's hard to blame them on that front. So we just don't have the aura anymore that we are going to play near perfect football and the opponent is all up in their heads and we can maximize on them making mistakes.

 

[Kasmir]

We really can't say without knowing what the play call was, and what Brown's responsibility was.

I guess it's possible Trent was confused about the play call -- in which case he simply whiffed on a cut block.

 

[Kasmir]

People aren't making definitive statements about Mac Jones based on last night like people did with Zappe based the performance against two games. People are encouraged by his play last night and hope he can build on it, but I don't say anyone saying things like this is coming out party like this is the Mac Jones we are definitely going to see going forward. People were saying things like Zappe is clearly better than Jones and just can process things faster than Jones can and has a higher football IQ than Jones based on those games against bad defenses. That's the difference.

Yes, the Vikes have a bad pass defense, but Jones performed well above the averages that the Vikes usually give up. What does that mean going forward? Who knows? But Jones played great last night and don't get why you want to take it away from him. Just because you are Team Zappe.

The people who don't think Zappe should be the starter or think he is a starting QB didn't take his performances against the Browns and Lions away from him. From what I can see, most if not all gave him credit for the performances at the time of the games. They only used the quality of the opponents as an argument against why he should be a starter over Jones.

If you want to make an argument that the Vikes' pass defense sucks when debating someone saying that this is proof that Jones is a very good or great QB being held back by the o-line and coaching and this game shows it, saying the Vikes pass defense sucks as an argument against it is a valid argument. If you want to say Jones wasn't very good last night and it was just the Viking's defense that made him look good, then you are just a hater.

Not saying Mac's proved anything other than that he had the best game of his young pro career. Which they lost. And he needs to continue to progress. But last night was significant IMO because he progressed vs last year -- downfield accuracy and velocity -- vs his overall regression this year.

 

[TomPatriot]

Horrid officiating and ST play aside, Jefferson was the difference in the game. He doesn’t stop on his route; put him on the Pats and he probably catches Mac’s pass to Agholor. I was amazed that the D didn’t succeed in taking him out of the offense.

 

[Rob0729]

(Not that this matters much as it relates to last night's game, because Mac was not the reason they lost).

To me it's less about the emotions themselves than how they're managed.

Brady would get angry/mad. Occasionally that came out in not-so-pleasant outbursts, but other times it came out as silent, laser focus. Even with Brady's outbursts, I never, ever got the impression that he was unsteady, lacking in poise, or overwhelmed by the moment.

To my eye, Mac doesn't get angry/mad; he gets upset. And it kind of spirals when adversity strikes and at times he seems to get overwhelmed and looks emotionally unsteady. I just worry those emotions aren't being managed particularly well at the moment. Emotional maturity is certainly something that can develop with time, though, and he's still a young person.

All of this goes without saying, but speculating on another person's emotional state is very subjective. While my subjective perception of Jones' emotions is speculative and potentially off-the-mark/meaningless, no one should confound that with the notion that Jones' emotions and how he manages them is irrelevant to his performance - it's a very big part of his (and every player's) on-field performance.

Mac Jones has shown many times that just because he pouts on the sidelines doesn't mean he becomes overwhelmed by the moment. We have seen cases where he make a really bad pick and come back and score a TD on the next drive.

Let's face it. You don't like the guy. You have been pretty vocal about it. I can go back through your posts and this is just a latest line of complaints about Jones you have from a weak arm to a complete lack of pocket presence. Based on your posts, I gotta think you wonder how Jones is even in the NFL never mind starting for an NFL team. I am not throwing shade, but just making an observation that based on your posts I get that you don't believe Jones is good at anything.

 

[Jangles]

You do it, you're the one who says he played like "ass." Make sure to specify which sacks were Mac's fault exclusively and not attributable to coverage or anyone on the OL getting beat.

You probably checked the stats and didn’t like the picture it painted

It’s ok. You’re allowed to be wrong

 

[archstanton543]

Horrid officiating and ST play aside, Jefferson was the difference in the game. He doesn’t stop on his route; put him on the Pats and he probably catches Mac’s pass to Agholor. I was amazed that the D didn’t succeed in taking him out of the offense.

He's like the best WR in the league. No one can stop the guy right now.