2020 Patriots Season:
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JarOfMayo51

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
It’s odd that we played so much zone. Our secondary is built for man to man. Bentley sitting in the underneath zone was a waste of a man. When people were near him, he was too slow to make the play.

Isnt that what BB usually does against mobile QBs, go more of a zone so they can keep their eyes on the QB and not have their back turned to him?

I'm watching the game again now, and Russel Wilson is playing at the top of his game.. the meta level of play he's at is scary good
 

luuked

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PatsFans.com Supporter
Interesting comments coming out of the Seattle lockerroom...is is possible Belichick didn't want to tip his hand in case this situation comes up again against Seattle? Usually the Pats practice situation football, so I was expecting a better play call...

I don't think situational football has anything to do with the last play call, and unless you are just going at it from an outcome-based logic I am not sure why you'd expect a different play at this point in the season.

The 14 personnel formation with Newton rushing has been not stopped in 6 attempts in the previous 7.5 quarters and it is quite obviously the thing they have had the most experience doing in short yardage/goal line situations.

Lets go back to what McDaniels (and implicity BB) were saying in DYJ3 about how they call plays:


and if you think those situations are not the same then lets go to what BB said right after the Seattle game:


I think the way they approached that play was in fact absolutely their modus operandi.

But on some level it has been interesting observing the reaction of people to the play because it is almost like an inverse mirror image of the Seahawks decision not to run on the GL in the SB. Except Lynch had issues through the second half running the ball consistently whereas nobody had stopped the 14 personnel rush this season (they were 6 of 6 in short yardage with it). So on the one hand you have people calling Carroll a doofus for not using a play that has a lower success rate than the one they are deeming "predictable" when actually called by McDaniels.

I get that some just wanted more bells and whistles on it with pass options and whatnot but as said at the beginning of this post.. they were gonna run what they feel most comfortable with in that situation and that is what they did. I don't think there is much surprising or un-Patriots like about it.

I think that a lot of this will evolve over the next 15 weeks to the point where they will have more options they really like. But given the preseason this year I am not surprised that this is what they did in W2 after 7 weeks of football activities this year.
 
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PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Harry is from the West Indies (St. Vincent/Grenada). Soft is NOT in his blood. If u know, u know..

And if you don't know, now you know

How does a first round late pick, sophomore,
treated like Chad Jackson, moved from the middle of a forgotten spot
In the Caribbean, to between Boston and Providence Rhode Island,
from the milk carton, emerge to be Cam's number two target?


Just a reminder...

The Patriots lost:
Kyle Van Noy
Elandon Roberts
Jamie Collins
Ted Karras
Tom F***ing Brady
Philip Dorsett
Danny Shelton
Nate Ebner
Duron Harmon (trade)
Donte Hightower
Marcus Cannon
Patrick Chung
Matt LaCosse
(and additions)
Brandon Bolden
Dan Vitale
Marquise Lee

That's 13 significant contributors from last year gone. They had no preseason to break in an entirely new LB corps and QB (did I mention they lost Tom F***ing Brady?), and they just went across the country, losing James White last minute, after a week where their coach also buried his mother and against a team that knows them, prepares for them like it's a Superbowl every time (Carroll doesn't want to ever lose to the Pats), is a SB favorite, and yet, they came within 2 yards of winning.

Damn.

And for the people crapping on Michel and Harry, really, get over it. Harry's essentially a rookie who still hasn't had a proper training camp and Michel was worth the pick for 2018 alone. His playoff run was record-breaking. You might note that the Pats really don't run the ball very well and haven't for a couple of years - that will change as newton opens up the offense and stops teams from stacking the box against us.

Maybe the best thing of all last night was getting down 12 and forcing McDaniels to let Newton throw down the field.

You know we lost right?

I mean, Cam showed he can come within a hair in a comeback situation against a good team. Well, we're competitive. I'm with you on that. And sure, plenty of obstacles, but all teams went without a pre-season... okay, we had more new guys to gel, there is that. But it is what it is -- Week 2 juggernauts aren't exactly a sure thing in a normal year.

It's certainly not time to ditch (!) but it's not time to buy your virtual avatar super bowl tix either :D
 

Pape

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
In re K'neal Harry... Week 2 was better than week 1 ... Which topped any performance he had in 2019 ... Like what I see so far... Could it be better? Sure... But at the very least he's getting better

Keep growing and getting better wiwo... That's a positive trend worth supporting...
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
You know we lost right?

I mean, Cam showed he can come within a hair in a comeback situation against a good team. Well, we're competitive. I'm with you on that. And sure, plenty of obstacles, but all teams went without a pre-season... okay, we had more new guys to gel, there is that. But it is what it is -- Week 2 juggernauts aren't exactly a sure thing in a normal year.

It's certainly not time to ditch (!) but it's not time to buy your virtual avatar super bowl tix either :D
I agree. I think what was lost in the game is that after Cam's horrible pick we were down 2 scores and on our way to being soundly put to bed and then Petey decides again to throw on third and one which opened the door for the comeback. Cam led a nice drive at the end but his clock management was horrible. We should have had much more time when we got into the red zone. Bill's red zone brain fart to not call the time out also cost us multiple plays down there to score. And the last play was horrible with Cam making a terrible decision to run right when the Seattle defense was stacked over there waiting for it. And I still have not gotten to our kicker or the 7 points we were gifted to start the game when a short ball bounced off of the TEs hand right to McCourty. I agree that it is encouraging that we were able to somewhat hang with Seattle but the final score really does not indicate just how soundly Wilson was beating us until the final few minutes and Petey's brain fart.
 

Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
PatsFans.com Supporter
And if you don't know, now you know

How does a first round late pick, sophomore,
treated like Chad Jackson, moved from the middle of a forgotten spot
In the Caribbean, to between Boston and Providence Rhode Island,
from the milk carton, emerge to be Cam's number two target?




You know we lost right?

I mean, Cam showed he can come within a hair in a comeback situation against a good team. Well, we're competitive. I'm with you on that. And sure, plenty of obstacles, but all teams went without a pre-season... okay, we had more new guys to gel, there is that. But it is what it is -- Week 2 juggernauts aren't exactly a sure thing in a normal year.

It's certainly not time to ditch (!) but it's not time to buy your virtual avatar super bowl tix either :D

I can't speak for everyone, but my excitement isn't because we came within 2 yards of a 2-0 record. It's that the team's output so far has been equivalent to what we saw during the Brady era. I don't know if we're a Super Bowl contender (that certainly can't be declared this early, as you say), but it sure looks like we'll be watching the same kind of Patriots games we've been watching for years (except with more QB runs). In the first season after losing the GOAT NFL player, that's all I could have ever asked for.
 

Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
PatsFans.com Supporter
I agree. I think what was lost in the game is that after Cam's horrible pick we were down 2 scores and on our way to being soundly put to bed and then Petey decides again to throw on third and one which opened the door for the comeback. Cam led a nice drive at the end but his clock management was horrible. We should have had much more time when we got into the red zone. Bill's red zone brain fart to not call the time out also cost us multiple plays down there to score. And the last play was horrible with Cam making a terrible decision to run right when the Seattle defense was stacked over there waiting for it. And I still have not gotten to our kicker or the 7 points we were gifted to start the game when a short ball bounced off of the TEs hand right to McCourty. I agree that it is encouraging that we were able to somewhat hang with Seattle but the final score really does not indicate just how soundly Wilson was beating us until the final few minutes and Petey's brain fart.

I really don't get the complaints about clock management, let alone blaming it on Cam. First of all, if that were a problem, it would reflect on the coaching staff rather than any individual player (except maybe any player who stays inbounds when he shouldn't, which didn't happen against Seattle). Secondly, I think Bill played the clock correctly and consistently with how he's played it in big games in the past, so the whole discussion is irrelevant in my eyes. You can't always get 4 shots at the endzone at the end of a game. Sometimes the drive just takes the number of seconds it takes.

And quickly handwaving away the TWO clutch drives Cam led (you only acknowledged one) at the end of regulation with zero margin for error while focusing on points that were ultimately less impactful such as the interception and perceived clock mismanagement is a bit suspect and makes me question whether you're just trying to confirm preconceived ideas you had about Cam and/or the team. Sure, he threw the pick. He was also pretty much the sole reason we were in position to win at the end. If you don't think he put the team on his back and fell just a tiny bit short, we watched different games.

The valid complaints right now are against our defense and kicker. Maybe McDaniels too.
 
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amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I really don't get the complaints about clock management, let alone blaming it on Cam. First of all, if that were a problem, it would reflect on the coaching staff rather than any individual player (except maybe any player who stays inbounds when he shouldn't, which didn't happen against Seattle). Secondly, I think Bill played the clock correctly and consistently with how he's played it in big games in the past, so the whole discussion is irrelevant in my eyes. You can't always get 4 shots at the endzone at the end of a game. Sometimes the drive just takes the number of seconds it takes.

And quickly handwaving away the TWO clutch drives Cam led (you only acknowledged one) at the end of regulation with zero margin for error while focusing on points that were ultimately less impactful such as the interception and perceived clock mismanagement is a bit suspect and makes me question whether you're just trying to confirm preconceived ideas you had about Cam and/or the team. Sure, he threw the pick. He was also pretty much the sole reason we were in position to win at the end. If you don't think he put the team on his back and fell just a tiny bit short, we watched different games.

The valid complaints right now are against our defense and kicker. Maybe McDaniels too.
It is on Cam to get the offense in and out of the huddle on the 2 minute drive. I felt he was slow getting the ball snapped and moving down the field. That being said, when we did get inside the 15, you either clock the ball there or call the timeout. We would have had 25 extra seconds from that point on had either of those happened. Instead we got 2 more plays, not 4 which is what we should have had. This is not nit picking at all as these are the decisions that affect whether you win or lose.

I did not handwave away the last 2 drives but it was pretty evident on the first drive that the Seahawks were in prevent given they had a 12 point lead and did not need to press but rather let the Pats eat clock. That is exactly what happened with Seattle getting the ball back and Petey yet again calling for the pass on third and one despite having the most heady and competitive QB in the game. A real scratcher to open the door.

If you want to gloss over Cam's pick that put us down two scores right in the thick of the game or the gifted TD early, go ahead. But I choose to be much more objective as the goal is to win. At least that is what used to be the objective in NE but somehow we are all psyched at moral victories.

Overall, I liked what I saw from Cam. But he has to be better against the good teams for us to win. As you say, it was on him as it is for every QB in the league and he did not finish.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
And if you don't know, now you know

How does a first round late pick, sophomore,
treated like Chad Jackson, moved from the middle of a forgotten spot
In the Caribbean, to between Boston and Providence Rhode Island,
from the milk carton, emerge to be Cam's number two target?




You know we lost right?

I mean, Cam showed he can come within a hair in a comeback situation against a good team. Well, we're competitive. I'm with you on that. And sure, plenty of obstacles, but all teams went without a pre-season... okay, we had more new guys to gel, there is that. But it is what it is -- Week 2 juggernauts aren't exactly a sure thing in a normal year.

It's certainly not time to ditch (!) but it's not time to buy your virtual avatar super bowl tix either :D

You don't need to do that with me. I don't expect this team to get to the AFCCG, let alone the Superbowl. They are in a rebuild here - the idea that they're going to likely win quite a few (9?, 10?) games this year is more than I expected.
 

Captain Cliche

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
"--Harry's critics (N'Kritics? Harry Haters? I'll work on it), who were saying he can't get separation have now switched to bellyaching that he goes down too easily. OK. Fine. Whatever. He does need to work on fighting through first contact. But don't question his toughness because the helmet-to-helmet that was egregious enough to get Diggs ejected kept Harry off the field for one play. But more to the point, can't we just be glad he's leading the team in receptions and has developed an obvious chemistry with his quarterback when last year's QB was treating him like he was trying to pledge Omega House. Last night was his 10th career game, including the playoffs. He's reliable and getting better. So back the duck off and give a 23-year-old the chance to continue developing his game, fercrissake."

 
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dreighver

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
If you want to gloss over Cam's pick that put us down two scores right in the thick of the game or the gifted TD early, go ahead. But I choose to be much more objective as the goal is to win. At least that is what used to be the objective in NE but somehow we are all psyched at moral victories.

Overall, I liked what I saw from Cam. But he has to be better against the good teams for us to win. As you say, it was on him as it is for every QB in the league and he did not finish.

Nothing about Sunday was a "moral" victory. We watched our team go toe-to-toe against a likely SB contender, and the best QB in the league. They didn't almost win that game because of luck; they almost won that game because they're a damn good team.

If your takeaway from Sunday is that Cam has to be better against good teams for us to win, I really don't know what to say. He wasn't the reason we lost that game -- in fact, he was exceptionally good ... scary good. A NE QB hasn't played that well in a couple years. Quite frankly, he looked as good/better than Brady did at any point last season. I'd be curious if you felt the team needed Brady to be better last season, and if he was the reason they couldn't beat good teams at points?

Want to hear some actual legitimate reasons that we lost on Sunday that have nothing to do with Cam? Nick Folk's missed FG and Wilson's incredible play.
 
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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Nothing about Sunday was a "moral" victory. We watched our team go toe-to-toe against a likely SB contender, and the best QB in the league. They didn't almost win that game because of luck; they almost won that game because they're a damn good team.

If your takeaway from Sunday is that Cam has to be better against good teams for us to win, I really don't know what to say. He wasn't the reason we lost that game -- in fact, he was exceptionally good ... scary good. A NE QB hasn't played that well in a couple years. Quite frankly, he looked as good/better than Brady did at any point last season. I'd be curious if you felt the team needed Brady to be better last season, and if he was the reason they couldn't beat good teams at points?

I think we know the answer to that. Funny how the Bradyites demand we give Tompa Boy (who is currently 30th in the NFL in QBR out of 34) more time to gel with his team and thrive- and yet a QB who played his first two games in almost a year doesn't get the same consideration.

Huh. Weird how that works.
 
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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
And if you don't know, now you know

How does a first round late pick, sophomore,
treated like Chad Jackson, moved from the middle of a forgotten spot
In the Caribbean, to between Boston and Providence Rhode Island,
from the milk carton, emerge to be Cam's number two target?




You know we lost right?

I mean, Cam showed he can come within a hair in a comeback situation against a good team. Well, we're competitive. I'm with you on that. And sure, plenty of obstacles, but all teams went without a pre-season... okay, we had more new guys to gel, there is that. But it is what it is -- Week 2 juggernauts aren't exactly a sure thing in a normal year.

It's certainly not time to ditch (!) but it's not time to buy your virtual avatar super bowl tix either :D

Lots of folks said the Patriots are bad enough to be in the mix for Lawrence. Unless catastrophic injuries happen to this team that is clearly not the case. As for being a SB contender I think the Seahawks, Ravens and Chiefs have something to say about that. This team is fun to watch though - way more fun than last year with Pouty Tom.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Lots of folks said the Patriots are bad enough to be in the mix for Lawrence. Unless catastrophic injuries happen to this team that is clearly not the case. As for being a SB contender I think the Seahawks, Ravens and Chiefs have something to say about that. This team is fun to watch though - way more fun than last year with Pouty Tom.
Winning ball games is fun...Making the POs is fun...
 
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