Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Chargers

[PScottman]

NEM was a former poster on this board over 15 years ago.. His hatred for ANY Pats OC was legendary..

One of NEM's favorite phrases was "slants and in-cuts" - to him, those two routes were the key to victory, but are not the foundation of Perkins-Erhardt style offenses (as in the entire offense built out of just those routes regardless of coverage, skill player traits, etc) that Patriots OCs usually built their game day play sheet from. Ironically, similar to DKF and Leftwich, NEM was obsessed with Mike Martz as the model NFL OC which was the one beaten by the Pats to start the dynasty.

Further ironically, he was a little bit vindicated in that the slot receiver and TEs, working the short middle of the field did become a Patriot staple (just not only those two route types) across their dynasty years.

So a little yin and a little yang for NEM.

 

[TomPatriot]

But do they usually hold them out for three games?

Gilmore was traded 10/6.

Carolina played the Eagles 10/10, no Gilmore.

Carolina played the Viking 10/17, no Gilmore.

Carolina played the Giants 10/24, no Gilmore.

Carolina played the Falcons 10/31, Gilmore played his first game of the season.

Nice try. But give it up. He wasn’t ready to go. Even if that ruins your nice narrative it is what the evidence shows. Otherwise why would Carolina be paying him to sit after they traded to get him?

No matter what his physical condition, the earliest he could return from the PUP list is Week 7. Last weekend was Week 8. That’s when he returned.

The argument that he didn’t play until last Sunday doesn’t prove that you’re right or wrong.

 

[TomPatriot]

One of NEM's favorite phrases was "slants and in-cuts" - to him, those two routes were the key to victory, but are not the foundation of Perkins-Erhardt style offenses (as in the entire offense built out of just those routes regardless of coverage, skill player traits, etc) that Patriots OCs usually built their game day play sheet from. Ironically, similar to DKF and Leftwich, NEM was obsessed with Mike Martz as the model NFL OC which was the one beaten by the Pats to start the dynasty.

Further ironically, he was a little bit vindicated in that the slot receiver and TEs, working the short middle of the field did become a Patriot staple (just not only those two route types) across their dynasty years.

So a little yin and a little yang for NEM.

Really?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding. Everyone uses parts of every offensive system. EP always incorporated slants and ins. The Pats have never run a pure EP system, regardless of the OC.

 

[Sicilian]

I don't bash Josh McD, we could do a LOT worse. But the fades and jump balls to Jakobi Myers make me scratch my head. Those plays look awful. Am I to believe those plays look great in practice but implode on game day?

I am in the camp that if you are 1st and goal on the 1 or 2 yard line then pound it in. Run a sweep, fullback sneak, whatever, but not pass.

I disagree with your point about passing for a 2 point conversion. That is 1 play for 2 yards which is completely different than 1st and goal from the 2. I understand if we can pass for a 2 point conversion, we can pass for a 2 yard touchdown, but the situations are different, so the approach should change.

I definitely agree on your Meyers point. If you're going to run those types of plays, you're banking on a one on one matchup where you trust your guy to quickly win the route or a jump ball, and that's not really Meyer's game. We have a guy in Harry who (on paper) SHOULD be that guy, but it's not hard to see why they don't trust him 100% in those situations yet. I think they were trying to do a similar concept with Henry the play before, which makes more sense, but he got held. Again though, it goes back to was the jump ball to Meyers something that McDaniels called like a set play, or was it Mac reading some kind of leverage wrong? If it was Brady making that throw, I'd blame the playcall/design 100%, because it's unlikely Brady read the keys incorrectly. But it's possible Mac did, not only because he's a rookie, but this was during the stretch where he was just a little off across the board.

 

[n6249c]

He was with the team several weeks like you say, but I think because he was on PUP he could not practice for those several weeks. Some teams like having more than 3 or 4 days of practice before playing a player, so Gilmore might have played 2 weeks after starting to practice which didn't have anything to do with his actual injury status.

I have no idea how injured Gilmore was or wasn't, and it is not hard for me to admit that. I just do not know.

Going by this report he was taken off PUP October 30, the day before he played in his first game, which undermines that argument.

Stephon Gilmore set to make Panthers debut after being activated off PUP list

The Stephon Gilmore era in Carolina is set to begin. The star cornerback was activated off the physically unable to perform list Saturday, clearing him to make his Panthers debut Sunday against the Falcons.

www.nfl.com

 

[jah]

One of NEM's favorite phrases was "slants and in-cuts" - to him, those two routes were the key to victory, but are not the foundation of Perkins-Erhardt style offenses (as in the entire offense built out of just those routes regardless of coverage, skill player traits, etc) that Patriots OCs usually built their game day play sheet from. Ironically, similar to DKF and Leftwich, NEM was obsessed with Mike Martz as the model NFL OC which was the one beaten by the Pats to start the dynasty.

Further ironically, he was a little bit vindicated in that the slot receiver and TEs, working the short middle of the field did become a Patriot staple (just not only those two route types) across their dynasty years.

So a little yin and a little yang for NEM.

Sometimes those guys are right. DKF had a pretty good read on our OL situation this year even though myself and others were peppering him with disagreement.

I like McDaniels, but it's hard to blame someone for getting frustrated with his style. I'm kind of convinced he runs bad plays on purpose (e.g. the classic "3rd and Bolden" play) sometimes so teams will put it on the scouting report. The trick plays can seem desperate and lame when they're the only ones that work in some games. The difference between me and DKF is I think those things ultimately help more than they hurt.

 

[ashley]

Final thoughts from Reiss on the game:

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Bourne's fumble opening the door to Harry was a pretty significant event Sunday. Would love to see N'Keal be part of a rotation this week.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Bourne's fumble opening the door to Harry was a pretty significant event Sunday. Would love to see N'Keal be part of a rotation this week.

Agreed but only if they will throw jump balls and back shoulder fades to him. No idea why we are using Jakobi for those.

 

[Kasmir]

Final thoughts from Reiss on the game:

Love these reports by Reiss -- they're almost as good as Ken's

Nice to see him calling out Gunner's game.

The kid becomes 1st team All-Pro punt returner in his 2nd year out of Bemidji State (as a DB) and for the moment anyway has the highest punt return average in modern NFL history, but there are still plenty of fans here who want to replace him with a warm body because he doesn't start at WR.

Instead let's hope to see Gunner develop as a WR where he can use his great vision and impressive acceleration and agility in the open field after the catch.

In the meantime, it's nice to have a great punt returner.

 

[Bill Lee]

One of NEM's favorite phrases was "slants and in-cuts" - to him, those two routes were the key to victory, but are not the foundation of Perkins-Erhardt style offenses (as in the entire offense built out of just those routes regardless of coverage, skill player traits, etc) that Patriots OCs usually built their game day play sheet from. Ironically, similar to DKF and Leftwich, NEM was obsessed with Mike Martz as the model NFL OC which was the one beaten by the Pats to start the dynasty.

Further ironically, he was a little bit vindicated in that the slot receiver and TEs, working the short middle of the field did become a Patriot staple (just not only those two route types) across their dynasty years.

So a little yin and a little yang for NEM.

Just listened to Al Bundy's (ok, Tom E Curran's) podcast and he lamented our lack of someone with speed to do the slants and in-cuts like JE11, and called out a play where Meyers tried to do that and just wasn't fast enough to gain separation.

Funny that we "fix" the TE position so we can have someone to fit the role in the Perkins-Earhardt system ala Mark Bavaro, Ben Coates, et al but now we have no JE11/Amendola/Welker et al.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I see Tha Gunnah taking that slants & in cuts role late 2nd half of this season. As a PR he'd probably be decent on those receiver screens too.

 

[NFLmac]

Final thoughts from Reiss on the game:

I was curious to see the play by Hightower at 13:26 of the fourth, so I brough it up on my DVR.
It was worth the effort!

 

[Ivan]

It's not Jonnu's fault the oc has him playing fulllback. No clue how to use a 2nd TE. You can tell regardless of personnel the oc only feels comfortable using 11-personnel spread shotgun. Always goes away from 12 personnel after the first 10 scripted plays. It was a total waste signing a 2nd expensive TE knowing the oc.

.

NEM

 

[Ivan]

I see Tha Gunnah taking that slants & in cuts role late 2nd half of this season. As a PR he'd probably be decent on those receiver screens too.

Agree completely, and no team has a better track record of turning punt returners into great slot receivers. Once he has the ball in his hands he is incredibly dangerous.

 

[1960Pats]

Aww, despite a few cheap shots early on, you had the moral high ground till you couldn't help yourself but get your jab in at the end.

Clearly, you are no better than the people you are complaining about.

Thanks for pointing out that I could have handled that better. I'll make my future responses less aggressive.

 

[DaBruinz]

Going by this report he was taken off PUP October 30, the day before he played in his first game, which undermines that argument.

Stephon Gilmore set to make Panthers debut after being activated off PUP list

The Stephon Gilmore era in Carolina is set to begin. The star cornerback was activated off the physically unable to perform list Saturday, clearing him to make his Panthers debut Sunday against the Falcons.

www.nfl.com

When a player is put on Reserve/PUP they can not practice for the first 6 weeks. After that first 6 weeks, a player can start practicing at any time. However, when a player does start practicing, the team has 3 weeks to activate him or he reverts to IR for the year. In this case, Gilmore started practicing after his 6 weeks on PUP. He was activated after 2 weeks of practice.

 

[PP2]

One of NEM's favorite phrases was "slants and in-cuts" - to him, those two routes were the key to victory, but are not the foundation of Perkins-Erhardt style offenses (as in the entire offense built out of just those routes regardless of coverage, skill player traits, etc) that Patriots OCs usually built their game day play sheet from. Ironically, similar to DKF and Leftwich, NEM was obsessed with Mike Martz as the model NFL OC which was the one beaten by the Pats to start the dynasty.

Further ironically, he was a little bit vindicated in that the slot receiver and TEs, working the short middle of the field did become a Patriot staple (just not only those two route types) across their dynasty years.

So a little yin and a little yang for NEM.

Really?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding. Everyone uses parts of every offensive system. EP always incorporated slants and ins. The Pats have never run a pure EP system, regardless of the OC.

The EP is basically just a different approach to the terminology used to call plays. Of course it incorporates everything on the route tree.

The main difference with the EP as opposed to other systems is the simplicity of the protection calls, the routes run, the dropbacks, etc. The modifications with OUR version of the EP are mostly that the routes run by the receivers are chiefly dictated by coverages, and to a lesser extent, leverages. In other words, the QB and the receivers must see the same thing the defense is giving them.

This is why if a receiver couldn't get on the same page as Brady, he was effectively useless.

 

[captain stone]

I find quite amusing that when they run in the red zone there are many posts saying "what's wrong with McD, they need to pass it" and when they pass in the red zone "what's wrong with McD, they need to run in the red zone."

Can we just change it to "damn it McD, ONLY call plays that work!"? Cut out the worry of having to remember whether the complaint was "run" or "pass" last week.

Those 3rd- and 4th-down calls outside the 1 were ****ing Garbage from the get-go.

 

[captain stone]

Here is where I'll agree - the LB play of specifically Van Noy and HT has been an issue. Judon, Uche, and Bentley are contributing at a pretty consistent level (now whether that level meets expectations i.e. Uche rushing the passer is another story). Bentley has returned to his rookie level which was unexpected to the positive. Judon has just been a beast.

JaWrong Bentley ****ing Sucks. Period.