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Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Giants @ Pats


THIS IS OUR LIVE GAME DAY THREAD:

This is where we gather to follow things on Game Day. Obviously, emotions tend to be high so if anyone gets a little crazy, the use of the “Mute” button is encouraged on anyone who may be annoying to you to control your experience and to allow the moderators to also enjoy the game.

At the same time, please take a deep breath before over-reacting for the sake of making this a pleasant experience for everyone.

Realizing I never gave my preseason game one review, here it is, better late than never.

This is organized by starters indicated by an * and snap counts.

OFFENSE

QB Brian Hoyer* (14; 23%),
QB Bailey Zappe (48; 77%),

Hoyer looked like a 13 year vet playing against newbies, he still has a weak arm. Had full command of the offense... an offense I might add was exactly like the offense last year. What "new system?" I thought we were going to see Shanahan's offense, I thought switching back to the old offense would be impossible once they change, at least that what Ted Johnson and others told us... not so much.

Zappe looked like a talented rookie in his first preseason game, up and down. He made some dumb mistakes, but his arm and decision making also shined. What really stood out for me was his pocket presence, he moved around the pocket really well and sensed pressure. He had one play where it got hairy inside and he stepped up into the pocket and threw a shovel pass like Mahomes to a receiver running a drag in front of him. Another pass that made me sit up and take notice was a curl route to Wilkerson, Zappe threw a laser well before Kristian broke on his route and he had to make a cat like grab to snag it. Anticipation, knowledge where the route was going... an amazing pitch and catch. I liked the draft pick when they made it, now he has to continue to improve and wean out the poor decisions.

TE Matt Sokol* (51; 82%),

Average athlete, unremarkable but steady game.

WR Tyquan Thornton* (22; 35%)
WR Tre Nixon* (51; 82%),
WR Kristian Wilkerson* (46; 74%),
WR Lil’Jordan Humphrey (44; 71%),
WR Josh Hammond (34; 55%),

Thornton looked like he didn't belong playing in this game with the back half of the roster guys, he looked like a vet with way too much talent. So excited to see this kid evolve and grow. Too fast and too slick a route runner to be contained, his length in the red zone showed up yet again.

Tre dropped a crucial third down where he beat his man by a mile on an out route, it went right through his hands. Rather than dwell on it or let it effect him, he got right back to work. When I see him play in a Pats uniform it reminds me of Malcolm Mitchell. He's just a solid WR with very good speed and athleticism. He fights for the ball and is a lot stronger than his frame looks. He doesn't have any one standout characteristic, but does everything well.

Wilkerson has to make this team, all he's done all preseason so far is catch 30+ yard passes. He gets open at will and if he had "hands" issues before he doesn't anymore. He's developed into a good receiver, they can't hide him on the practice squad anymore.

I know Humphrey caught a TD but his only definable trait is "big." He's big and tall but not fast or remarkable in any way. Hammond looks like a jag.

OT Justin Herron* (43; 69%),
OT Yodny Cajuste* (41; 66%),
G Arlington Hambright* (36; 58%),
G Cole Strange* (14; 23%),
C James Ferentz* (14; 23%)

Herron had two penalties, that wasn't good. That being said all the OT's did a good job neutralizing the Giants first round pick Kayvon Thibodeaux. I thought the first unit did a good job in protection for the most part.

Arlington Hambright is doing everything possible to make this roster, he really pushes people around and gets downfield to make blocks. I think they lined him up at OT at one point also but I may be wrong.

Cole Strange is a plug and play player, just a smart draft pick... even if people don't get excited over guards.

OT Yasir Durant (35; 56%),
C Kody Russey (48; 77%),
G Bill Murray (34; 55%),
G William Sherman (31; 50%),
G Drew Desjarlais (14; 23%),

Outside of Desjarlais and Russey with some flashes the third unit didn't get much push in the run game and made Zappe work hard on his pocket awareness. William Sherman shouldn't be on an NFL roster, he literally got pushed backwards on a power run up the middle... can't say I've seen that before. Also the dive TD by Kevin Harris was an Olympian feat of strength on his part, he basically pushed himself in there alone with a little help by Russey.

RB J.J. Taylor* (14; 23%),
RB Kevin Harris (21; 34%),
RB Pierre Strong Jr. (27; 44%),

Taylor runs well, he reminds me of Dion Lewis when I see him run. He had one opportunity to pass block and acquitted himself nicely, I don't know if that points to improved pass blocking which was his weakness or just a small sample size.

Kevin Harris is a power runner, he reminds me of Stevan Ridley. He dropped an easy swing pass which is the first one I noticed since camp started, might be an anomaly as he has shown pretty good hands to this point. I don't think he'll ever be confused for a passing back though... running is his bread and butter.

Strong didn't get a massive workload or many opportunities and he played with the dregs of the offensive line. One thing that stood out to me was the Patriot's coaches calling many traditional power run plays while he was in there, it's like they were testing his toughness to see if he would stick his nose in there and get the tough yards. To his credit that's what he did, he lowered his shoulder and stuck it in there to churn out some tough runs. I think they know he's fast, that he can avoid contact... I think they wanted to see him power run and he did it well, despite some horrid blocking in front of him.

DEFENSE

DT Carl Davis* (28; 33%),
DT Daniel Ekuale* (36; 42%),
DT Henry Anderson* (31; 36%),
DT Sam Roberts (58; 67%),
DE LaBryan Ray (46; 53%),
DT Jeremiah Pharms Jr. (41; 48%),

Carl Davis is a mountain of a man, he is the teams only true NT. Opponents can't run on him. He fits this team well playing 10-12 snaps a game as a situational run stopper... and he gets paid appropriately for his contributions.

Ekuale and Anderson seem like motor guys, they make plays but don't exactly push the pocket back into the opposing QB's face. I see them as cusp roster guys.

Sam Roberts has potential as Deatrich Wise's understudy at DE. He tossed the Giants first round pick Evan Neal like a rag doll but then blew by the QB, he needs to slow down once he has the QB in his sights. That being said he created pressure, he needs to get stronger against the run. I could say similar stuff about LaBryan Ray but I think there's possibly only one spot up for grabs and IMO Roberts is ahead slightly.

Pharms is a jag...

LB Anfernee Jennings* (35; 41%),
LB Mack Wilson Sr.* (25; 29%),
LB Raekwon McMillan* (19; 22%),
LB Josh Uche (23; 27%),
LB Cameron McGrone (58; 67%),
LB Harvey Langi (40; 47%),
LB Ronnie Perkins (40; 47%),
LB Nate Wieland (18; 21%),
LB DaMarcus Mitchell (11; 13%)

Jennings looked strong and fast, he looks like a starting OLB.

Uche was also flying around the ball and looked like a more complete LB rather than just a pass rush specialist. He showed up in pass coverage and looks like a real LB.

McMillan and Wilson looked good also, both look like seasoned vets playing with a lot of newbies out there. They're smart heady players with a lot of snaps under their belts going back to college. The middle of the field is a little less uncertain after watching them play, now they need to stay healthy.

McGrone played with the scrubs but showed up in space. He was also active on special teams which is where he'll make this team if he does. He'll be a good lifeline to have if he continues to develop and they can't keep the other two middle LB'ers upright. I should add Harvey Langi is a steady ILB, they could probably stash one or both of these guys on the PS and keep a lot of quality depth at the position.

Perkins and the rest looked like jags…

S Jalen Elliott* (75; 87%),
S Joshuah Bledsoe* (67; 78%),
S Brad Hawkins* (66; 77%),

These guys didn't stand out either good or bad. But Elliott was alive and making plays, he was around the ball a lot which I didn't expect truthfully.

CB Terrance Mitchell* (23; 27%),
CB Malcolm Butler* (23; 27%),
CB Jack Jones (63; 73%),
CB Shaun Wade (57; 66%),
CB Joejuan Williams (48; 56%),
CB Myles Bryant (15; 17%),

Mitchell played decent, got beat once for ten yards but then came back and pushed the ball out of the receivers hands for a turnover. I said he'd start opposite Mills before training camp started and I'll stand by that.

Butler was up and down, he looked like himself on some plays... which means he give up a pass and works hard to punch it out. He is the epitome of a guy who does more with less. I still don't know if he makes this team.

Jack Jones was good on some plays and bad on some plays. He gambles, he's an incredibly instinctual player who tries to outsmart and get ahead of the opposing QB. Great when it works but costly when it doesn't. I think it speaks volumes that Marcus Jones wasn't playing. It seems the last CB battle on the team comes down to Jack Jones, Shaun Wade and Myles Bryant. JoeJuan isn't a cornerback, he's a strong safety... the Patriots brass just refuse to acknowledge or accept it. He'll probably be gone and switch his position on another team and probably play for many more years as a safety... it's where he belongs.

Myles Bryant showed some juice in the return game, I think the Pats coaches are showcasing him so he can latch on somewhere else if he doesn't make this team. He has been a good soldier and done everything asked of him, he simply isn't fast and there is a lot of depth now at slot CB... though he could also slip onto the PS. I will add as a positive note, I thought the blocking in the return game was much improved from last year. It might be the return of Joe Judge or just a one game blip, but they seemed to do a better job of putting a hat on a hat. If they block that well for Marcus Jones it could be electric.
 
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Along those lines, he actually set the NFL record for starting a career with the most receptions not generating a TD. *Any* other receiver would have done better with those opportunities. He's just not a playmaker.

Thanks for the new info….we all watched the game when he finally scored and the announcers made a big deal about it and his teammates went crazy, there were unicorns and show-ponies running around on the sidelines. Ok, so maybe the Tompa Gronka guys weren’t watching the Pats but the rest of us were.
My complaint is that he gets too many targets for a guy who can't do anything with the ball in his hands.

Totally. What an as*hole, getting all consistently open and stuff for his QB.
 
The other point I'll say as part of my recantation is that your brother deserves credit and support for his ongoing transition from QB to WR. While he is obviously a quick study, I'm sure he's still learning his new craft and is far from reaching his ceiling.

Thanks for speaking up; I will now be a committed fan.
that’s a good point about his transition to WR. I’d forgotten about that when I said I was not optimistic about expecting significant improvement over what he’s shown. I have revise that opinion based on the information I’d overlooked.

Personally I’m a fan of pretty much anybody who is good enough to play in the NFL (extreme head cases excepted). Even the bubble guys are good athletes with great commitment to doing the work to compete for a roster slot. Guys like Meyers who not only make the roster but also make it onto the field and play well enough to stay there are exceptionally good. At their level differences in talent are very small. It’s mostly style and nuanced details. And fan reaction is based on those plus the novelty factor. Jakobi is well established, guys like Wilkerson and Nixon have the intrigue of being less known, but they’re all really good. So that leaves us arguing over inconsequential opinions and we lose sight that they’re all deserving of us being their fans.
 
Most notable from the game....

Bill smiled and side-hugged someone. I expect a full in-depth analysis.
 
Realizing I never gave my preseason game one review, here it is, better late than never.

This is organized by starters indicated by an * and snap counts.

OFFENSE

QB Brian Hoyer* (14; 23%),
QB Bailey Zappe (48; 77%),

Hoyer looked like a 13 year vet playing against newbies, he still has a weak arm. Had full command of the offense... an offense I might add was exactly like the offense last year. What "new system?" I thought we were going to see Shanahan's offense, I thought switching back to the old offense would be impossible once they change, at least that what Ted Johnson and others told us... not so much.

Zappe looked like a talented rookie in his first preseason game, up and down. He made some dumb mistakes, but his arm and decision making also shined. What really stood out for me was his pocket presence, he moved around the pocket really well and sensed pressure. He had one play where it got hairy inside and he stepped up into the pocket and threw a shovel pass like Mahomes to a receiver running a drag in front of him. Another pass that made me sit up and take notice was a curl route to Wilkerson, Zappe threw a laser well before Kristian broke on his route and he had to make a cat like grab to snag it. Anticipation, knowledge where the route was going... an amazing pitch and catch. I liked the draft pick when they made it, now he has to continue to improve and ween out the poor decisions.

TE Matt Sokol* (51; 82%),

Average athlete, unremarkable but steady game.

WR Tyquan Thornton* (22; 35%)
WR Tre Nixon* (51; 82%),
WR Kristian Wilkerson* (46; 74%),
WR Lil’Jordan Humphrey (44; 71%),
WR Josh Hammond (34; 55%),

Thornton looked like he didn't belong playing in this game with the back half of the roster guys, he looked like a vet with way too much talent. So excited to see this kid evolve and grow. Too fast and too slick a route runner to be contained, his length in the red zone showed up yet again.

Tre dropped a crucial third down where he beat his man by a mile on an out route, it went right through his hands. Rather than dwell on it or let it effect him, he got right back to work. When I see him play in a Pats uniform it reminds me of Malcolm Mitchell. He's just a solid WR with very good speed and athleticism. He fights for the ball and is a lot stronger than his frame looks. He doesn't have any one standout characteristic, but does everything well.

Wilkerson has to make this team, all he's done all preseason so far is catch 30+ yard passes. He gets open at will and if he had "hands" issues before he doesn't anymore. He's developed into a good receiver, they can't hide him on the practice squad anymore.

I know Humphrey caught a TD but his only definable trait is "big." He's big and tall but not fast or remarkable in any way. Hammond looks like a jag.

OT Justin Herron* (43; 69%),
OT Yodny Cajuste* (41; 66%),
G Arlington Hambright* (36; 58%),
G Cole Strange* (14; 23%),
C James Ferentz* (14; 23%)

Herron had two penalties, that wasn't good. That being said all the OT's did a good job neutralizing the Giants first round pick Kayvon Thibodeaux. I thought the first unit did a good job in protection for the most part.

Arlington Hambright is doing everything possible to make this roster, he really pushes people around and gets downfield to make blocks. I think they lined him up at OT at one point also but I may be wrong.

Cole Strange is a plug and play player, just a smart draft pick... even if people don't get excited over guards.

OT Yasir Durant (35; 56%),
C Kody Russey (48; 77%),
G Bill Murray (34; 55%),
G William Sherman (31; 50%),
G Drew Desjarlais (14; 23%),

Outside of Desjarlais and Russey with some flashes the third unit didn't get much push in the run game and made Zappe work hard on his pocket awareness. William Sherman shouldn't be on an NFL roster, he literally got pushed backwards on a power run up the middle... can't say I've seen that before. Also the dive TD by Kevin Harris was an Olympian feat of strength on his part, he basically pushed himself in there alone with a little help by Russey.

RB J.J. Taylor* (14; 23%),
RB Kevin Harris (21; 34%),
RB Pierre Strong Jr. (27; 44%),

Taylor runs well, he reminds me of Dion Lewis when I see him run. He had one opportunity to pass block and acquitted himself nicely, I don't know if that points to improved pass blocking which was his weakness or just a small sample size.

Kevin Harris is a power runner, he reminds me of Stevan Ridley. He dropped an easy swing pass which is the first one I noticed since camp started, might be an anomaly as he has shown pretty good hands to this point. I don't think he'll ever be confused for a passing back though... running is his bread and butter.

Strong didn't get a massive workload or many opportunities and he played with the dregs of the offensive line. One thing that stood out to me was the Patriot's coaches calling many traditional power run plays while he was in there, it's like they were testing his toughness to see if he would stick his nose in there and get the tough yards. To his credit that's what he did, he lowered his shoulder and stuck it in there to churn out some tough runs. I think they know he's fast, that he can avoid contact... I think they wanted to see him power run and he did it well, despite some horrid blocking in front of him.

DEFENSE

DT Carl Davis* (28; 33%),
DT Daniel Ekuale* (36; 42%),
DT Henry Anderson* (31; 36%),
DT Sam Roberts (58; 67%),
DE LaBryan Ray (46; 53%),
DT Jeremiah Pharms Jr. (41; 48%),

Carl Davis is a mountain of a man, he is the teams only true NT. Opponents can't run on him. He fits this team well playing 10-12 snaps a game as a situational run stopper... and he gets paid appropriately for his contributions.

Ekuale and Anderson seem like motor guys, they make plays but don't exactly push the pocket back into the opposing QB's face. I see them as cusp roster guys.

Sam Roberts has potential as Deatrich Wise's understudy at DE. He tossed the Giants first round pick Evan Neal like a rag doll but then blew by the QB, he needs to slow down once he has the QB in his sights. That being said he created pressure, he needs to get stronger against the run. I could say similar stuff about LaBryan Ray but I think there's possibly only one spot up for grabs and IMO Roberts is ahead slightly.

Pharms is a jag...

LB Anfernee Jennings* (35; 41%),
LB Mack Wilson Sr.* (25; 29%),
LB Raekwon McMillan* (19; 22%),
LB Josh Uche (23; 27%),
LB Cameron McGrone (58; 67%),
LB Harvey Langi (40; 47%),
LB Ronnie Perkins (40; 47%),
LB Nate Wieland (18; 21%),
LB DaMarcus Mitchell (11; 13%)

Jennings looked strong and fast, he looks like a starting OLB.

Uche was also flaying around the ball and looked like a more complete LB rather than just a pass rush specialist. He showed up in pass coverage and looks like a real LB.

McMillan and Wilson looked good also, both look like seasoned vets playing with a lot of newbies out there. They're smart heady players with a lot of snaps under their belts going back to college. The middle of the field is a little less uncertain after watching them play, now they need to stay healthy.

McGrone played with the scrubs but showed up in space. He was also active on special teams which is where he'll make this team if he does. He'll be a good lifeline to have if he continues to develop and they can't keep the other two middle LB'ers upright. I should add Harvey Langi is a steady ILB, they could probably stash one or both of these guys on the PS and keep a lot of quality depth at the position.

Perkins and the rest look like jags.

S Jalen Elliott* (75; 87%),
S Joshuah Bledsoe* (67; 78%),
S Brad Hawkins* (66; 77%),

These guys didn't stand out either good or bad. But Elliott was alive and making plays, he was around the ball a lot which I didn't expect truthfully.

CB Terrance Mitchell* (23; 27%),
CB Malcolm Butler* (23; 27%),
CB Jack Jones (63; 73%),
CB Shaun Wade (57; 66%),
CB Joejuan Williams (48; 56%),
CB Myles Bryant (15; 17%),

Mitchell played decent, got beat once for ten yards but then came back and pushed the ball out of the receivers hands for a turnover. I said he'd start opposite Mills before training camp started and I'll stand by that.

Butler was up and down, he looked like himself on some plays... which means he give up a pass and works hard to punch it out. He is the epitome of a guy who does more with less. I still don't know if he makes this team.

Jack Jones was good on some plays and bad on some plays. He gambles, he's an incredibly instinctual player who tries to outsmart and get ahead of the opposing QB. Great when it works but costly when it doesn't. I think it speaks volumes that Marcus Jones wasn't playing. It seems the last CB battle on the team comes down to Jack Jones, Shaun Wade and Myles Bryant. JoeJuan isn't a cornerback, he's a strong safety... the Patriots brass just refuse to acknowledge or accept it. He'll probably be gone and switch his position on another team and probably play for many more years as a safety... it's where he belongs.

Myles Bryant showed some juice in the return game, I think the Pats coaches are showcasing him so he can latch on somewhere else if he doesn't make this team. He has been a good soldier and done everything asked of him, he simply isn't fast and their is a lot of depth now at slot CB... though he could also slip onto the PS. I will add as a positive note, I thought the blocking in the return game was much improved from last year. It might be the return of Joe Judge or just a one game blip but they seemed to do a better job of putting a hat on a hat. If they block that well for Marcus Jones it could be electric.
Great write up and well done!!!!
 
Gints beat writer (Benton) getting some clicks by dissing Bill. But, huh ???

Specifically, Belichick said they weren’t able to practice their play-action due in large part to Martindale’s blitzing. But in reality, the Giants went rather soft on the Pats.
.….
Belichick is a notorious complainer — even more so in recent years without a super team — but it’s still encouraging to see Martindale frustrating opposing coaches already. …

Since when has anyone heard him complain. He almost always turns it around, ‚I just have to coach better‘ …and „It is what it is. “ are all-time BBisms.

or does anyone think my memory is confused. ?

and I think BB probably thought there was an arrangement at HC level that Wink was acting like he didn’t get the msg from front office.

meanwhile in same article, writer quotes Daboll as saying it was good that Gints got to see a VARIETY of fronts.
Giants head coach Brian Daboll wasn’t nearly as frustrated with the Patriots for blitzing. ….
“They played some man, played a little bit of zone, disguised some, blitzed some,” Daboll told reporters. “So, it was good work for us on offense.

writer doesn’t even see his own hypocrisy in a (like 600 word) article that is so short it is hard to overlook.

forgot link, but was in local feed:
 
Making these sorts of decisions after one preseason game makes ZERO sense.

As already mentioned, you don't understand the PUP at all. Once a player has practiced, they can't be put on the PUP. If IRed as part of the cutdown to 53, it's IR for the year. Only AFTER cutdown to 53, can players go in Recallable IR.

Meyers and Parker play different positions.
The BEST OT on the market just signed with the Jets.

Why would you release Kevin Harris after ONE preseason game?
Saying to put players on the "Foxborough Flu" IR is ridiculous. Especially if they aren't injured.

How about we wait until Game 2 is done before making any decisions? I mean.. is that really too much to ask?
Very valid.. but what are fans and opinions for if we need to take a balanced view after watching few games. These are transitory view points and could change based on how the other games pan out. No need to ascribe too much emotion or value to it.

Regarding PUP I do not know the nuances. So thanks for the clarification. I was referring to PUP/IR as a way to stash players whom we don't want to cut but can't put into 53 person roster . The finer rules I am not aware. Learning a bit through these posts.
 
Send one extra rusher occasionally so the RB gets to work on blitz pickup. Cover 0 with the goal of getting somebody untouched to the QB doesn’t help anybody.

I thought the blitz that led to Wieland’s roughing the passer was payback for all of the Giants’ blitzing, but it wasn’t actually cover 0. There was a safety in the middle of the field, and the RB just failed to pick up anybody with 6 rushers vs 6 blockers.
 
Zappe looked like a talented rookie in his first preseason game, up and down. He made some dumb mistakes, but his arm and decision making also shined. What really stood out for me was his pocket presence, he moved around the pocket really well and sensed pressure. He had one play where it got hairy inside and he stepped up into the pocket and threw a shovel pass like Mahomes to a receiver running a drag in front of him. Another pass that made me sit up and take notice was a curl route to Wilkerson, Zappe threw a laser well before Kristian broke on his route and he had to make a cat like grab to snag it. Anticipation, knowledge where the route was going... an amazing pitch and catch. I liked the draft pick when they made it, now he has to continue to improve and ween out the poor decisions.
He'll need to be extremely accurate with his arm strength being what it is. There just wasn't any noticeable velocity on his throws. He's also undersized for an NFL quarterback and he made a lot throws with odd mechanics which will effect his accuracy. I thought the receivers played really well for Zappe in the second half. Not that Hoyer is any good, but if I'm placing value on my backup quarterback then I'm going with Hoyer at this point.
 
He'll need to be extremely accurate with his arm strength being what it is. There just wasn't any noticeable velocity on his throws. He's also undersized for an NFL quarterback and he made a lot throws with odd mechanics which will effect his accuracy. I thought the receivers played really well for Zappe in the second half. Not that Hoyer is any good, but if I'm placing value on my backup quarterback then I'm going with Hoyer at this point.
Brees and Russell Wilson are undersized... the same size actually.

Arm strength is one of those things I think people say without actually considering if it's true or not... Zappe isn't really tall so he must have poor arm strength.

Look at the curl route the throw at 1:27, there's another impressive curl route to Nixon earlier at 1:16:



He completed an awful lot of tight window throws for a guy with a weak arm.

Being able to throw with touch, throwing a catchable ball is not the same thing as a weak arm.
 
Brees and Russell Wilson are undersized... the same size actually.

Arm strength is one of those things I think people say without actually considering if it's true or not... Zappe isn't really tall so he must have poor arm strength.
I considered it, and watched his throws, his arm isn't strong. Brees and Wilson are also undersized but both have hall of fame capabilities otherwise. I'm not putting Zappe in their category as I'm sure you really aren't either. So given Zappe's size, arm strength, and apparent tendency to throw with odd mechanics / arm angles, he need a lot of work with a highly qualified quarterbacks coach. From what I saw I would not have much confidence in Zappe as a backup quarterback right now.
 
And arm strength can be improved. Brady's 'zip' improved noticeably over his first few years in the league.
 
I considered it, and watched his throws, his arm isn't strong. Brees and Wilson are also undersized but both have hall of fame capabilities otherwise. I'm not putting Zappe in their category as I'm sure you really aren't either. So given Zappe's size, arm strength, and apparent tendency to throw with odd mechanics / arm angles, he need a lot of work with a highly qualified quarterbacks coach. From what I saw I would not have much confidence in Zappe as a backup quarterback right now.
Here are the three QB's arranged by size, from their measurements at the combine and pro day:

Bailey Zappe
6’1” 217

Drew Brees
6'0" 213

Russell Wilson
5’11" 204

Zappe is bigger and taller than both of them. Brees and Wilson both had hall of fame capabilities based upon what?

Oh yeah... because they're shoe-ins for the HOF already, they've already done it.

Beyond that Brees had to bounce around the league and Nick Saban actually chose Daunte Culpepper over Brees because of his height. Not sure anyone thought Wilson had HOF capabilities when he was drafted at the end of the third round... or knowing that he was under 6 feet tall and weighed nothing. Not to mention "he who shall remain nameless" who also got branded with a weak arm and drafted in the 6th round... or Mac for that matter, who made a lot of naysayers look silly last year making a pro bowl with his pea shooter arm.

Zappe is a rookie, he can make all the throws. He holds the single season NCAA record for most yards and TD's in a single season... what are we gauging "hall of fame capabilities" upon?

What we know about Brees and Wilson now was worthless when they were rookies playing their first preseason game... and suggesting you knew then that they were destined for greatness is laughably absurd.
 
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Here are the three QB's arranged by size, from their measurements at the combine and pro day:

Bailey Zappe
6’1” 217

Drew Brees
6'0" 213

Russell Wilson
5’11" 204

Zappe is bigger and taller than both of them. Brees and Wilson both had hall of fame capabilities based upon what?

Oh yeah... because they're shoe-ins for the HOF already, they've already done it.

Beyond that Brees had to bounce around the league and Nick Saban actually chose Daunte Culpepper over Brees because of his height. Not sure anyone thought Wilson had HOF capabilities when he was drafted at the end of the third round... or knowing that he was under 6 feet tall and weighed nothing. Not to mention "he who shall remain nameless" who also got branded with a weak arm and drafted in the 6th round... or Mac for that matter, who made a lot of naysayers look silly last year making a pro bowl with his pea shooter arm.

Zappe is a rookie, he can make all the throws. He holds the single season NCAA record for most yards and TD's in a single season... what are we gauging "hall of fame capabilities" upon?

What we know about Brees and Wilson now was worthless when they were rookies playing their first preseason game... and suggesting you knew then that they were destined for greatness is laughably absurd.

I love how some folks are judging Zappe after 1 preseason game...probably the same people who said Mac wasn't very good last year early on lol.
 
Here are the three QB's arranged by size, from their measurements at the combine and pro day:

Bailey Zappe
6’1” 217

Drew Brees
6'0" 213

Russell Wilson
5’11" 204

Zappe is bigger and taller than both of them. Brees and Wilson both had hall of fame capabilities based upon what?

Oh yeah... because they're shoe-ins for the HOF already, they've already done it.

Beyond that Brees had to bounce around the league and Nick Saban actually chose Daunte Culpepper over Brees because of his height. Not sure anyone thought Wilson had HOF capabilities when he was drafted at the end of the third round... or knowing that he was under 6 feet tall and weighed nothing. Not to mention "he who shall remain nameless" who also got branded with a weak arm and drafted in the 6th round... or Mac for that matter, who made a lot of naysayers look silly last year making a pro bowl with his pea shooter arm.

Zappe is a rookie, he can make all the throws. He holds the single season NCAA record for most yards and TD's in a single season... what are we gauging "hall of fame capabilities" upon?

What we know about Brees and Wilson now was worthless when they were rookies playing their first preseason game... and suggesting you knew then that they were destined for greatness is laughably absurd.
I never said I knew Brees and Wilson were "destined for greatness." I said they proved to have hall of fame capabilities, which is accurate. Zappe is smaller than the average NFL quarterback, that's just a fact too. You compared Zappe to Mahomes in one instance... Mahomes is a phenom who's mostly gotten away with his unusual mechanics but it caught up with him a bit last season. Either way we shouldn't utter Zappe and Mahomes in the same sentence.

I don't think Zappe will be setting equivalent NFL records either but congratulations on the nifty NCAA records. We'll see how he looks moving forward but after one preseason game he doesn't look ready as an NFL backup.
 
I love how some folks are judging Zappe after 1 preseason game...probably the same people who said Mac wasn't very good last year early on lol.
Actually it was the end of the season that was more worrisome.
 
Actually it was the end of the season that was more worrisome.

well, Mac was the best rookie QB in Patriots history, so him hitting a rookie wall is excused.
 
I never said I knew Brees and Wilson were "destined for greatness." I said they proved to have hall of fame capabilities, which is accurate. Zappe is smaller than the average NFL quarterback, that's just a fact too. You compared Zappe to Mahomes in one instance... Mahomes is a phenom who's mostly gotten away with his unusual mechanics but it caught up with him a bit last season. Either way we shouldn't utter Zappe and Mahomes in the same sentence.

I don't think Zappe will be setting equivalent NFL records either but congratulations on the nifty NCAA records. We'll see how he looks moving forward but after one preseason game he doesn't look ready as an NFL backup.
You didn't say "proved to have," you said "Brees and Wilson are also undersized but both have hall of fame capabilities."

What capabilities were evident in their games as they were leaving college that Zappe doesn't possess?

Also I don't understand what you're talking about with Zappe's mechanics. He doesn't throw the ball sidearm like Jake Plummer, he throws like a QB robot.




As far as preparation and understanding who he is as a player and his body type:

“Drew Brees has always been someone who I’ve looked up to mechanics-wise, preparing-wise. Just watching him and the way he is in the pocket and stuff like that—it’s something that I kind of model my game after,” Zappe said. “We do have some similar things, we’re both not in that 6-foot-4 to 6-foot-5 range, so just watching him and how he kind of combats that.”

This seems like more Patriot's suck nonsense.... if the Pats drafted Ridder or Pickett I suspect they would suck as well.
 


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