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Official Post Game Thread - Chiefs at Patriots


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Dwayne Allen has yet to show me anything. What did we give up for him? Gronk got blanketed last night and Allen was nowhere to be found. He blocks well, but we need him to catch a few passes keep the linebackers and safeties honest.
 
Dwayne Allen has yet to show me anything. What did we give up for him? Gronk got blanketed last night and Allen was nowhere to be found. He blocks well, but we need him to catch a few passes keep the linebackers and safeties honest.

We'll see but what I did like is that he's got some speed. He's not slow and sluggish. Surprised they didn't call more target plays for him.
 
Well the haters are out in full force after last night including that idiot rob Parker. Brady will be killed all week
 
Dwayne Allen has yet to show me anything. What did we give up for him? Gronk got blanketed last night and Allen was nowhere to be found. He blocks well, but we need him to catch a few passes keep the linebackers and safeties honest.

He has to give us something offensively or I rather see what Jacob Hollister has to offer.
 
Too bad geneo grissom turned out to be an abomination of a pick..we could have really used a hit on a DE there.

Listen I thought we would be a better D because

- much better secondary with Gilmore instead of Ryan
- flowers, brown making a year three jump
- adding Harris to our LB corps
- adding Ealy as starting DE

Long was a role player
Sheard got benched last year
Nink was slowing down physically

I figured they would be replaced easily
Addressing point by point:

Gilmore is an upgrade over Ryan, but not a massive one. Ryan was universally regarded as one of the top corners on the market. I think he's a bit overrated, but he's a talented corner and I don't think anyone was operating from a place of reason if they thought Gilmore was a massive upgrade. He's a better and more versatile player who will take some time to integrate into the defense.

Re: Grissom - when the Pats picked Grissom and Flowers back to back, my take was that if one of them turned into a starter-caliber DE I'd be happy. That's the most you can reasonably hope for with mid-round picks, and that's exactly how it panned out. I don't mind the picks from that perspective. Same reason why I can't make myself hate the Tre Jackson pick. Between he and Mason, I was hoping we'd get one starting guard, and that's what we got.

Flowers already made the leap last year. He's a stud DE. Brown... well, my opinion on Brown is pretty well established at this point, not going to keep beating it into the ground. Suffice to say, I think anyone who's been watching at all closely should have been cautiously optimistic at best.

Harris is 33 and was generally considered to be a half-step slow 3 years ago. He's a nice situational piece, and there are gameplans in which he'll feature and be a real asset. Any time he's on the field, the run D will be a lot better than we saw last night. But he will not step foot on the field against the Travis Kelces and Kareem Hunts of the world. Anyone who thought he was some kind of transformative piece wasn't coming from a place of reason. There are a lot of teams that you won't be able to have both him and Hightower on the field against, and wherever that's the case he's going to be the guy riding the bench because Hightower's the much better player.

Ealy was cut 2 weeks ago. If you were projecting the defense to improve based on a guy who hasn't been on the team for weeks, then I dunno what to tell you.

It doesn't really matter how you feel about Long, Sheard, and Ninkovich, because regardless of spin it's a significant downgrade. It's simply a fact that they were three of the top four DEs last year. Whoever you think is our DE2 right now--Wise, Guy, Butler, whoever--he would be DE5 on the depth chart behind all three of them if they were here today.
 
Again if they give up 30 next week then hit the panic button. Last night was an aberration.

I agree, but I don't think it's anything resembling panic to state pretty emphatically that the defensive personnel we fielded last night were significantly worse than what we were fielding last year. The hit at DE alone is enough to make that claim reasonable, and then you start factoring in that Hightower missed most of the game. It was just objectively a much worst defense than what the Pats fielded last season. That's not to say they're terrible or they won't get better or anything like that. I don't think they're as bad as they looked last night and I think they'll improve as the season goes along. But anyone projecting that this defense would be better than last year's was not coming from a place of reason: simply put, we lost more than we added.
 
He has to give us something offensively or I rather see what Jacob Hollister has to offer.

Allen wasn't part of the problem last night. He was a ferocious blocker, he got wide open but Brady missed him, and a lot of the goal line offense focused on him and how the defense responded to him going in motion. He's a versatile threat playing his first game as a Patriot who didn't happen to be a focal point between the 20s. But he did everything he was asked to do and did it well.
 
I agree, but I don't think it's anything resembling panic to state pretty emphatically that the defensive personnel are not as good as last year. We took too much of a hit at DE for that to be a reasonable claim. Once you factor in Hightower going out, it's just objectively a much worst defense than what the Pats fielded last season. That's not to say they're terrible or they won't get better or anything like that. I don't think they're as bad as they looked last night and I think they'll improve as the season goes along. But anyone projecting that this defense would be better than last year's was not coming from a place of reason: simply put, we lost more than we added.

I think losing rivers hurt. I think wise needs more reps. Idk about what to think of our LBs after Hightower. These guys need to step it up
 
This will allow them to use Richards as a hybrid if they choose. Also, bumping Butler and Wises' snap counts to 40-50 percent is critical. When they played, things happened.

Just saying that both are rookies and so dont expect their snap count to go up dramatically from one week to the other. It will rise steadily to the point they can handle. Keep in mind that they have not been through a full year of NFL level strength and conditioning yet and you dont want them to hit the wall and be totally ineffective in Winter.
 
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When will the memorial be held for all the negative nancy's who jumped off the ledge last night? :D
 
"Off" to you (and others) is throwing for what equates to the 5th highest average yards per game of all-time, and more than his career average?

Tough audience.
Dwayne Allen has yet to show me anything. What did we give up for him? Gronk got blanketed last night and Allen was nowhere to be found. He blocks well, but we need him to catch a few passes keep the linebackers and safeties honest.

He was absolutely wide open on one play and Brady missed him horribly.
 
He was absolutely wide open on one play and Brady missed him horribly.

That's was a nicely designed played too. He had a lot of room. Damn it.
 


Solder should've had Mitchell blocked earlier during that run.
If Mitchell is blocked, then he doesn't make the tackle; if he doesn't make the tackle, then White makes a 1st down; if he makes a 1st down, then Gillislee doesn't get stuffed on 4th down; if he doesn't get stuffed, then the Pats have as many as 4 more chances to score a TD; if they score a TD, then it's a differently-coached ballgame.


Id guess BB would play this in film room as well . but I doubt he'd share the excitement of fans. I guess instead he'd ask White why he didn't go for 1st down there? Id bet he'd make a 1st down in this situation in SB. Why not week 1? Instead he playfully jogs out of bounds and the game turns ugly..
 
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Kudos to Tony for keeping this about what actually happened on the field . and for great illustrations.
Thanks!
 
Id guess BB would play this in film-room as well . but I doubt he'd share the excitement of fans. I guess instead he'd ask White why he didn't go for 1st down there? Id bet he'd make a 1st down in this situation in SB. Why not week 1? Instead he playfully jogs out of bounds and the game turns ugly..

This was emblematic of their play the whole game. Only a few players came to play and only two coaches had their players ready to play. They were leading going into the 4th quarter and their effort after that was pathetic.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned was a breakdown in fundamentals, especially on the D side of the ball. Anybody who ever coached beyond Pop Warner would notice this. Except for DMac, the tackling was generally mediocre, of the "I hit him and he'll just go down" variety and/or arm tackling. Shedding blocks requires awareness, effort, arm strength and movement. Chief blockers were allowed to engage on most plays and they stayed engaged. That's mostly why Hunt was able to run so well.

On the two 4th down runs, the online was awful. On one they were not only beat off the snap, which is inexcusable, but were stood up almost across the line. That means the back has nowhere to go. That should never, ever happen.

Players frequently didn't know where they were supposed to be or what to do. Gilmore letting the receiver go with no help over the top was one of many, many examples. That's bad coaching and it starts at the top. I doubt we will see that against NO. Much as I like the Saints, I'm not sure I'd want to be them next Sunday.
 
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I'm not concerned with Brady's accuracy at all. He made plenty of nice throws in some tight windows last night. The completion to Gronk was really a sweet pass. Over the "robber" LB and in between two DB's. Many more like that as well.

He threw a few away.

Anyways still working through the game.

The "throwing away" thing is why Thursday night actually reminded me a bit more of the 2014 opener in Miami than the Week-4 debacle in Kansas City. The Miami game was when the "Brady cliff" drumbeat officially began that season, but it was a similar situation - with pass-catchers not getting a lot of separation and Brady erring on the side of caution with his throws instead of forcing them.
 
Well the haters are out in full force after last night including that idiot rob Parker. Brady will be killed all week
Best thing to do is go on a media blackout (like patfanken does) and hang out here. Tv, radio, and other fan sites take pleasure on seeing the Patriots lose so why waste your time. At least there is some intelligent discussion on this site. If I had to depend on the local radio stations for that, I'd go nuts.
 
The "throwing away" thing is why Thursday night actually reminded me a bit more of the 2014 opener in Miami than the Week-4 debacle in Kansas City. The Miami game was when the "Brady cliff" drumbeat officially began that season, but it was a similar situation - with pass-catchers not getting a lot of separation and Brady erring on the side of caution with his throws instead of forcing them.

Well the good news is the coaches film is up. I'll get to see a lot more today.

I'm going to "Flutter" through the coaches film today.
 
...On the two 4th down runs, the online was awful. On one they were not only beat off the snap, which is inexcusable, but were stood up almost across the line. That means the back has nowhere to go. That should never, ever happen...
Bill & Skippy called plays that accentuated their weakness instead of their strength, which is zone-style blocking on the move, in space. Just because the down/distance is 3rd/4th and < 1 yard doesn't mean that the play call has to be a vanilla run straight up the middle, especially when the Entire defense is expecting it.
And not even one QB sneak? WTF was up with that?

The blame for those failed attempts lies more, far more, with the decision-making process than with the execution process.
 
The "throwing away" thing is why Thursday night actually reminded me a bit more of the 2014 opener in Miami than the Week-4 debacle in Kansas City. The Miami game was when the "Brady cliff" drumbeat officially began that season, but it was a similar situation - with pass-catchers not getting a lot of separation and Brady erring on the side of caution with his throws instead of forcing them.

They also went up early in the Miami game and failed to put the nail in the coffin several times, to the point where like a 21-10 lead at the half correctly felt like it wouldn't hold. Not dissimilar to Thursday.
 
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