Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[BB8XSBW]

The board is well-aware BGC is a self-absorbed, little man who has an over-inflated opinion of his contribution and worth on this forum. He thinks the 5% of the time he is right on draft picks and player eval gives him licence to belittle others.

Grade A nerdball with horrible people skills.

I'm surprised to see this kind of behavior from @BaconGrundleCandy. I usually like him as a poster, so I never expected to see him blatantly trolling like this for no reason. I can only assume that he is going through a rough time on a personal level, and that is unfortunately spilling over into his posts on this forum.

But I am willing to give him a break. We need to show the utmost respect for blue collar workers. Without people like him, financially elite individuals like me wouldn't have any of those massive mansions to spend tens of millions of dollars on. What he may lack in 'people skills,' he more than makes up for in superb craftsmanship.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Pats pressured allen 26 times. Of course he had to have one of his best games of the year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm surprised to see this kind of behavior from @BaconGrundleCandy. I usually like him as a poster, so I never expected to see him blatantly trolling like this for no reason. I can only assume that he is going through a rough time on a personal level, and that is unfortunately spilling over into his posts on this forum.

But I am willing to give him a break. We need to show the utmost respect for blue collar workers. Without people like him, financially elite individuals like me wouldn't have any of those massive mansions to spend tens of millions of dollars on. What he may lack in 'people skills,' he more than makes up for in superb craftsmanship.

Sorry but whatever his personal situation is or profession does not give him permission to treat people like ****. I don't care if hes a CEO of a F500 or works at Walgreens stocking shelves. It's irrelevant.

There are posters on this board battling cancer and have major health-issues, going through divorces or have recently lost spouses, children and close family members who still treat others with respect and decency.

Anything short of an acknowledgement of his lousy behavior and an apology to Ashley is unacceptable.

 

[Vindicate]

I mean it's not really an insult if I think she's a bad poster? I'm sure she's a great person but as a poster, cmon now. Hey thats my opinion and could be wrong.

She spams useless tweets she's trying to push from people in the media. I'm sorry but some of the stuff is captain obvious stuff that adds nothing. She also loves to name drop them when discussing topics as if it comes from a honest place. Like no one is think about what Alex Barth or Zack Cox are thinking with respect. If you're trying to break into the media this isn't the way.

Loves deleting and micromanaging post she disagrees with. This isn't a secret, Ross. Theres been threads about it. Especially in the GDT where it's designed to be knee-jerk lol. Imaging scanning that thread furiously deleting drunk post from poor schmucks on their day off?

She's telling people not to critique Bill as if he didn't design this rebuild from top to bottom. Literally saying hes the best coach in todays game after multiple mediocre seasons without Brady, questionable FA decisions and draft picks but the idea that someone else could do better is just out of pocket. That's such a casual take when you really think about it. Chemistry matters and throwing "the best at this or the best at that" doesn't always solve the situation. Especially in coaching.

Loves labeling posters as "trolls" when it's clear she doesn't know what a real "troll" is. For instance @captain stone will say something and itll be funny but another poster will say the same thing and theyre a "troll."

Not cool coming from mods. Especially when they clearly show bias and don't show a clear handle on the topics above. I'm looking above and nothing is exaggerated or made up.

It's really not meant to be personal or "mean." I just think some posters are better than others and she oversteps when it comes to Bill.

Eh. It doesn't strike me as "don't critique Bill", as I've critiqued Bill much myself - I think those comments are more directed towards the idea that just getting rid of Bill is necessary.

It's kinda a dumb reaction lol. I don't know of many football organizations that can quickly resume business as usual following a ridiculous drain of offensive assistants (let's remember that it wasn't just McDaniels who left, he took the whole damn office with him). Before that, you had multiple DC poachings and other staff leave.

There's certainly criticism to put out - in fact, one thing I've noticed with Belichick is a lack of contingency. We kinda saw it with the Gronk situation (granted he peeled off with bad timing, and almost seemingly in bad faith), as there was no plan in the wings. The writing was on the wall at that point.

There seemed to be a lack of contingency behind Brady, however I'm less familiar with the details on Jimmy G.'s departure.

There was a lack of contingency with McDaniels leaving. I understand those who say he was expecting Bill O'Brien, but hey - he seemed quite adamant about not exploring other options until his time at Alabama was done.

There was a lack of contingency in 2019 after Flores left, Daly left, and Greg Schiano just kinda quit at the end of March, long before the season started.

Bill's lack of contingency often pigeonholed his options to former assistants who've been ousted from their previous teams due to poor performance.

That's my main concern when it comes to Belichick.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I was reacting to the poster saying that Lawrence looked better this year. The optics of having a good year followed by a regression are worse than having a bad rookie year followed by an improved second year. On field results are not that different, both have the potential to be good QBs. The rest of the draft class is kind of a mess.

I agree with that. The optics. But I am VERY encouraged that Mac fought through the adversity and looked much better following the Raiders game. After the Raiders game I thought Mac might not make it. But he picked himself up, stopped his on-field temper tantrums, and started playing much better. I think Patricia started calling better games as well which inadvertently helped the appearance of Mac's performance. I am impressed that Mac worked hard last off-season, worked through adversity in 2022, and am hopeful for 2023.

I do not think Lawrence looked better, BTW. Mac definitely had games that were worse than Lawrence (looked worse at times), but I look at the last three games to make my comparison. Mac progressed a lot at the end, Lawrence didn't. Like @Vindicate wrote, Mac is still off a bit. I am hoping that is because he is still processing too slowly. Lawrence is still off a bit too, but a bit more off than Mac over the last few games.

I am not sure what to think of Fields - looks awful to me but friends who support the Bears like him. But I agree Wilson, Fields and the kid at the 49ers look bad.

 

[crawhammer]

Lawrence does not belong on the list. He led the Jags to 10 points against the Titans. Looked OK at best, not close to elite. Slow to read the field, late to deliver.

Compared to where Lawrence was at this point last season, he's made incredible improvement. He looks every bit the #1 overall pick now. I think he belongs in the elite young quarterback club moving forward.

Mac is in the B range as he will never do things like Hebert, Allen, or Mahomes. The hope is that Mac reads the field well, and processes it faster, such that he can throw guys open like a QB not to be named. No idea if Mac takes that step, but if he does, he will be an A level QB.

Mac looks like a B- ceiling quarterback to me. A level is pretty much off the table for me at this point. The problem is there's an A+ level quarterback in the division and the Patriots will be falling well short of the mark for seasons to come because of this disparity. That's unless the Patriots get a true WR1, a brilliantly-minded OC, and unexpected significant improvement from Mac.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Pats pressured allen 26 times. Of course he had to have one of his best games of the year.

I think we need to pressure Allen up the middle without letting him escape left and right. Our "pressure" problem is that we were overloading the middle and getting pressure, but Allen would leak out and extend the play. That is why I say we need Payne or equivalent in FA, because if we could create the pressure up the middle with two guys, Barmore and Payne, and then let 2 or 3 guys attack from the outside while containing Allen, it would work a lot better. The stunts can sometimes fool the opposing Oline, but leave one side of the line empty for the QB to escape. If Barmore and Payne push the middle, while one side contains and we overload the other side with two guys on one offensive tackle, I think we would have a lot more success. That is what I see.

 

[venecol]

Makeover ... facelift ... What this team REALLY needs, pronto, is to lose +/- 300 lbs. of ugly fat. Which in this case happens to wear a beard. Toss in Achord, install competent replacements and you're already halfway there. The Patriots HAD a playoff-caliber roster this season that would now be preparing for next week's wildcard round given competent coaching.

View attachment 48954

That's an interesting philosophical argument. I agree that good coaching makes a difference. To me, talented players >>> good coaches. Taking a look at this team the last two seasons:

1. In 2021, the team spent the most $$ in FAcy and by all accounts drafted a few good players between 2020-21 including a 1st Rd QB. The team won 10 games, ended up 2nd in the division, 1 game back from the division winner and got the #7 seed but lost in the WC round.

2. In 2022, the team made very little moves during FAcy, had another decent draft (debatable) and largely put out the same roster. There was a change in offensive coaching w/ persons familiar w/ the system. The team won 8 games, ended up 3rd in the division, 5 games back from the division winner and ended with the #9 seed missing the playoffs.

Looking at the other teams in the division during this period:

2020: playoffs in bold
Bills - 13
MIA - 10
NEP - 7
NYJ - 2

2021:
Bills - 11 (= talent, same HC/OC)
NEP - 10 (++ talent, same HC/OC)
MIA - 9 (= talent, new OC)
NYJ - 4 (+ talent, new HC/OC)

2022:
Bills - 13 (+ talent, new OC)
MIA - 9 (++ talent, new HC/OC)
NEP - 8 (- talent, new OC)
NYJ - 7 (++ talent, same HC/OC)

The #1 priority and main goal used to be "winning the division." Now, we're just praying for 3 other teams to lose their games in Wk 18 so we can back into the #7 seed. How many believe that good coaching is going to win us the division with the existing level of players? Imo, you need difference makers to win divisions. Pats have two: Judon & Rham. That's just not enough. Anyway, that's my opinion.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Compared to where Lawrence was at this point last season, he's made incredible improvement. He looks every bit the #1 overall pick now. I think he belongs in the elite young quarterback club moving forward.

You did not watch the last game against the Titans. There is no way to say a guy who led an offense to 10 points, and missed receivers over and over, is elite. It is OK to disagree, but Lawrence looked below average at the end of the season, you are way off.

Mac looks like a B- ceiling quarterback to me. A level is pretty much off the table for me at this point. The problem is there's an A+ level quarterback in the division and the Patriots will be falling well short of the mark for seasons to come because of this disparity. That's unless the Patriots get a true WR1, a brilliantly-minded OC, and unexpected significant improvement from Mac.

If you think a QB that leads his team to 10 total points, has poor mechanics (didn't even step into some of his throws), and fails to hit receivers over and over at the end of a season, is an overall #1 pick, it is difficult to appreciate your ability to grade QBs.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Honestly outside of the TWO kickoff returns for TDs they let up (so gross.....), I felt like they were competitive and at least put up a good fight against the Bills

I'd have felt so much better about the season if they had lost more games like they did to Buffalo (minus the kick returns!). At least its football you can watch, but some of the games where it was just a penalty every other play, or some boneheaded mistake, it was really tough to watch and enjoy it when total incompetence was in display a lot of the time

Mac in the Buffalo game played well, but as it got late into the 4th and they fell too far behind, it forced more desperate type plays and Buffalo closed it out

At least they showed fight, no one expected them to beat the Bills in Buffalo, but they had a chance.

I'm betting Kraft involves himself this offseason, because theres no way he wants the same offensive product on the field next year. The Patricia experiment is over, we can all safely say it was a complete and total failure... time to regroup and figure **** out


Oh and the ST coach has hopefully already been dragged by his face to the nearest airport, and physically tossed onto the first plane out of town

 

[PatsFan2]

As Ted Johnson was saying BB is 70, he's been involved with the game spanning 40 plus years.. he went on to say he's putting more on his plate instead of having competent people in important positions like he had with Weis, crennel, to run the offense or ST..

The drafting becomes better once ownership mentioned its more of a collaboration. Reports were he was ignoring the draft scouts and went with what he felt..

I can very much see that happening, especially with reports that Kraft informed the team that everyone will be under review in the off-season save for nick Caley. The interesting thing with Caley is Josh tried to take him to Las Vegas but the team blocked it.. then Curran mentioned Caley was offered the offensive coordinator job, but refused it becuase BB wouldn't give him the title..

Interesting why Block Caley in the the first BB looking very shaky here.

 

[PatsFan2]

The lights at the end of the tunnel.

 

[crawhammer]

Now, we're just praying for 3 other teams to lose their games in Wk 18 so we can back into the #7 seed.

Backing in would have just led to a 8-10 season. Not worth it.

Credit to Tomlin and the Steelers for a strong 7-2 finish to the season. They deserved the #7 seed over the Dolphins and Patriots. Rookie Kenny Pickett had only 1 INT during that 7-2 stretch. And George Pickens looks like he's going to be a stud WR1. Patriots missed on the WR pick again.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

That's an interesting philosophical argument. I agree that good coaching makes a difference. To me, talented players >>> good coaches. Taking a look at this team the last two seasons:

1. In 2021, the team spent the most $$ in FAcy and by all accounts drafted a few good players between 2020-21 including a 1st Rd QB. The team won 10 games, ended up 2nd in the division, 1 game back from the division winner and got the #7 seed but lost in the WC round.

2. In 2022, the team made very little moves during FAcy, had another decent draft (debatable) and largely put out the same roster. There was a change in offensive coaching w/ persons familiar w/ the system. The team won 8 games, ended up 3rd in the division, 5 games back from the division winner and ended with the #9 seed missing the playoffs.

Looking at the other teams in the division during this period:

2020: playoffs in bold
Bills - 13
MIA - 10
NEP - 7
NYJ - 2

2021:
Bills - 11 (= talent, same HC/OC)
NEP - 10 (++ talent, same HC/OC)
MIA - 9 (= talent, new OC)
NYJ - 4 (+ talent, new HC/OC)

2022:
Bills - 13 (+ talent, new OC)
MIA - 9 (++ talent, new HC/OC)
NEP - 8 (- talent, new OC)
NYJ - 7 (++ talent, same HC/OC)

The #1 priority and main goal used to be "winning the division." Now, we're just praying for 3 other teams to lose their games in Wk 18 so we can back into the #7 seed. How many believe that good coaching is going to win us the division with the existing level of players? Imo, you need difference makers to win divisions. Pats have two: Judon & Rham. That's just not enough. Anyway, that's my opinion.

A good defense and solid running game are always important, but what I see there is QB play drop-off and how important a good one is in this league now.

Mac played well in 2021, and we had a good season. His play (some on his own, some due to other circumstances) dropped off considerably this year, and despite how good Rham and the D was, we couldn't overcome.

Mac will never come close to being as good as Josh Allen, so BB has to overcome that difference with D/good run game. Didn't happen this year. Figuring out ways to overcome that deficiency, as long as Josh Allen is in the division, is the objective going forward, IMO.

 

[archstanton543]

Mac will never come close to being as good as Josh Allen, so BB has to overcome that difference with D/good run game. Didn't happen this year. Figuring out ways to overcome that deficiency, as long as Josh Allen is in the division, is the objective going forward, IMO.

The Pats had a guy rush for 1,000 yds this year and they had one of the best D's in the league. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[crawhammer]

You did not watch the last game against the Titans. There is no way to say a guy who led an offense to 10 points, and missed receivers over and over, is elite. It is OK to disagree, but Lawrence looked below average at the end of the season, you are way off.

If you think a QB that leads his team to 10 total points, has poor mechanics (didn't even step into some of his throws), and fails to hit receivers over and over at the end of a season, is an overall #1 pick, it is difficult to appreciate your ability to grade QBs.

I agree, Lawrence didn't play well in week 18. It's one game. The Jaguars finished the season on a 7-2 run. Lawrence had 15 TDs and 2 INTs during that stretch and he was arguably the best quarterback in the NFL over the second half of the season. How can you not be impressed with that?

Damn, if you're picking on Lawrence, then I can only imagine your assessment of Mac. He had more INTs in the second half of a game yesterday than Lawrence had for the entire second half of the season.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

The Pats had a guy rush for 1,000 yds this year and they had one of the best D's in the league. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Re-read what I wrote then. I said as good as they were (rham and the D), the difference is QB play.

 

[venecol]

I just call it the way I see it, and give my honest opinions and always try to be respectful to all my fellow Pat fans. If you don't like it or like me, I'm sorry, but you can put me on ignore. I'm not changing or I'm not going anywhere.

Ash

Ash, everybody likes you. You bring a lot of positive energy to the forum as a poster. Nobody has issues w/ your opinions. There have been several posts specifically talking about your performance as a moderator. This isn't personal but your response above isn't adequate.

1. You're a mod, nobody can put you on ignore.
2. Critique includes you being subjective in the enforcement of your mod duties:
a. Targeting posters.
b. Bating posters.
c. Getting into arguments w/ posters.
d. Deleting posts or banning posters from threads for minimal comments not disimilar to what many others post.
e. Labeling long time "Patsfan" posters as trolls.

All of these things have happened. We've all seen it happen. There isn't a single poster that thinks @Patjew is a troll, yet he brought up all of the above points.

@Ross12 tried to address some of these issues as it relates to him in a well thought out post where he acknowledged some things and thanked posters for their feedback.

I know for a fact there's a group DM of IBWT posters that talk about other posters and target or label them as "haters" or "trolls." They seem to be using you to do their bidding by dming you. This isn't HS w/ all the cliques (though it feels like it some times).

I don't envy your role. It can't be easy. I couldn't do it. But it would be nice it you could address these critiques of your mod duties and not take it as a personal attack. Again, nobody dislikes you. This isn't personal.

 

[SVN]

Eh. It doesn't strike me as "don't critique Bill", as I've critiqued Bill much myself - I think those comments are more directed towards the idea that just getting rid of Bill is necessary.

It's kinda a dumb reaction lol. I don't know of many football organizations that can quickly resume business as usual following a ridiculous drain of offensive assistants (let's remember that it wasn't just McDaniels who left, he took the whole damn office with him). Before that, you had multiple DC poachings and other staff leave.

There's certainly criticism to put out - in fact, one thing I've noticed with Belichick is a lack of contingency. We kinda saw it with the Gronk situation (granted he peeled off with bad timing, and almost seemingly in bad faith), as there was no plan in the wings. The writing was on the wall at that point.

There seemed to be a lack of contingency behind Brady, however I'm less familiar with the details on Jimmy G.'s departure.

There was a lack of contingency with McDaniels leaving. I understand those who say he was expecting Bill O'Brien, but hey - he seemed quite adamant about not exploring other options until his time at Alabama was done.

There was a lack of contingency in 2019 after Flores left, Daly left, and Greg Schiano just kinda quit at the end of March, long before the season started.

Bill's lack of contingency often pigeonholed his options to former assistants who've been ousted from their previous teams due to poor performance.

That's my main concern when it comes to Belichick.

I would say the lack of contigency is more of lack of new people coming in from the ranks to take over. The josh mcdaniels departure is a whole different animal in my opinion. Not only we lost a OC , we lost WR coach, QB coach as well. Dante and Fears also retired and dont forget Ernie. Not to make excuses but the staff was raided this past yr in every important position .Its hard to fill in everything. What needs to happen is more new coaches coming up the ranks in the pats system. But probably the current nfl landscape is such that very young coches are getting plucked early to be HCs and OCs.

 

[ashley]