Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bears beat the Pats

[Dingleberry]

Umm... If when Meyers comes into view, his head is already turned right. How do you know he did it after Zappe released the ball? Do you have a special off camera view that no one has?

Again, the play is a clear broken coverage. From what I can see, it looks like Meyers took advantage of it and ran down the field and looked back to signal to Zappe. This happens a lot on broken plays. I could be wrong, but there no visual evidence that Meyers looked back only after the ball was thrown. If you see anything differently, it is because it is what you want to see not what you actually see.

I have watched the play several times. Meyers goes off camera and when comes back into camera, his head already turned around. But since his head is already turned around, it is safe to assume he was already turned before the pass was released. In fact, it may be physically impossible for him to have turned his head that fast between when Zappe released the ball and his head is turned since he is almost looking completely backwards.

You are making up evidence to support your point. I guess you could be right,

but there is no evidence in the TV broadcast to support your theory.

Umm... If when Meyers comes into view, his head is already turned right. How do you know he did it after Zappe released the ball? Do you have a special off camera view that no one has?

Again, the play is a clear broken coverage. From what I can see, it looks like Meyers took advantage of it and ran down the field and looked back to signal to Zappe. This happens a lot on broken plays. I could be wrong, but there no visual evidence that Meyers looked back only after the ball was thrown. If you see anything differently, it is because it is what you want to see not what you actually see.

I have watched the play several times. Meyers goes off camera and when comes back into camera, his head already turned around. But since his head is already turned around, it is safe to assume he was already turned before the pass was released. In fact, it may be physically impossible for him to have turned his head that fast between when Zappe released the ball and his head is turned since he is almost looking completely backwards.

You are making up evidence to support your point. I guess you could be right, but there is no evidence in the TV broadcast to support your theory.

No shyt it isn't on the TV broadcast. Do you know there are a lot of other camera views available to us? Yes, I have seen the camera view from behind the play. Yes, Jakobi turned his head as the ball was already released. You choose to assume he already had his head turned based on the TV broadcast. Brilliant.

You just accused me of making up evidence to support my argument. I really shouldn't care, but I just told you the rear camera view (NOT ON THE TV BROADCAST) shows the entire play with Zappe and Jakobi in view. Either I am making this up to win an argument like you say or it is true. When I get home tomorrow and have a functioning laptop I will provide you with the evidence. Until then, feel free to believe I am making this up as part of a **** swinging debate.

I will work on those open receivers that Mac can't seem to see as well.

I usually leave football x's and o's to @BaconGrundleCandy because he is so daman good at it. But this is basic football stuff. Call me juvenile, a potty mouth, an arsehole. All true. But I don't care for being called a liar. d%#*!@t, now you are making me turn away from humor in favor of serious football talk. Yuck!

 

[Dingleberry]

The data on things like play action, shotgun, and the like is out there. They were calling the games differently for the QBs. You can read into that as you will, and apply the context/reasoning you think is appropriate, but there's no reason not to acknowledge it.

Acknowledged.

Can we all now acknowledge that Mac's lack of completing passes to open receivers does not allow anyone to logically conclude there are not open receivers UNLESS that person has looked at the all-22 views?

 

[Rob0729]

No shyt it isn't on the TV broadcast. Do you know there are a lot of other camera views available to us? Yes, I have seen the camera view from behind the play. Yes, Jakobi turned his head as the ball was already released. You choose to assume he already had his head turned based on the TV broadcast. Brilliant.

You just accused me of making up evidence to support my argument. I really shouldn't care, but I just told you the rear camera view (NOT ON THE TV BROADCAST) shows the entire play with Zappe and Jakobi in view. Either I am making this up to win an argument like you say or it is true. When I get home tomorrow and have a functioning laptop I will provide you with the evidence. Until then, feel free to believe I am making this up as part of a **** swinging debate.

I will work on those open receivers that Mac can't seem to see as well.

I usually leave football x's and o's to @BaconGrundleCandy because he is so daman good at it. But this is basic football stuff. Call me juvenile, a potty mouth, an arsehole. All true. But I don't care for being called a liar. d%#*!@t, now you are making me turn away from humor in favor of serious football talk. Yuck!

You are full of crap. I just watched the coaches film from the end zone on that play. Meyers doesn't come into the camera view until after his head is turned around just like the TV broadcast. You are making things up. I cannot wait for these supposed screen shots you have because the coaches film doesn't show anything different than the broadcast to whether Meyers' head is turned around before or after Zappe throws the ball.

 

[Rob0729]

@Dingleberry Here are the screen shots from the end zone. The first one is at 7 second where Zappe releases the ball.

I looked at the sideline view of the coaches tape, but Meyers is too blurry to tell if his head is turned at the time of release.




This one is at 8 seconds when Meyers comes into the screen and his head is already turned around.

 

[Thelonious]

Yes, if you don't watch the games or you don't understand the game of football you can say they are running the same offense and Zappe is just running it better. Those "facts" would support your argument. But if you actually look at the plays run, they are clearly different.

BTW, did you hear Perry speak about how the Bears think about Zappe? Small, weak armed, cannot see over the line. They said they felt it was easier to defend against him for d-linemen because they don't have to rush and just hold the line and get their hands up and turn it into a "volleyball game". Exactly what they did in the second half. The Bears clearly knew how to defend Zappe without preparing for him. Other teams will just follow that script.

You encourage me to "actually [to] look at the plays run," yet you - having presumably done so yourself - still have no facts to adduce in support of your view. Perhaps you are in the "don't hurt Mac's feelings" camp. As for Phil. I admire him and attend to what he has to say, but he ain't the Pope. Your defense of your view is an uncomfortable amalgam of argumentum ad verecundiam and argumentum ad misericordiam, both fallacies

 

[Dingleberry]

You are full of crap. I just watched the coaches film from the end zone on that play. Meyers doesn't come into the camera view until after his head is turned around just like the TV broadcast. You are making things up. I cannot wait for these supposed screen shots you have because the coaches film doesn't show anything different than the broadcast to whether Meyers' head is turned around before or after Zappe throws the ball.

Ok. I guess we will leave it at that for now.

 

[Dingleberry]

@Dingleberry Here are the screen shots from the end zone. The first one is at 7 second where Zappe releases the ball.




This one is at 8 seconds when Meyers comes into the screen and his head is already turned around.

Like I said before, I will have to get back to you when I get home tomorrow night. Until then, those are the only photos and I am a liar. I accept that.

 

[Rob0729]

Like I said before, I will have to get back to you when I get home tomorrow night. Until then, those are the only photos and I am a liar. I accept that.

I watched the film multiple times. Meyers is not in the camera view of the endzone tape until after the ball is released.


Here is the sideline view of the coaches' tape but since it is filmed from the press box, it is too blurry to see what way his helmet is facing when the ball is released. I think it looks like he is already looking back, but with such a crappy image from so far away I do not want to say for sure.

 

[Thelonious]

Ok. I guess we will leave it at that for now.

Wait, wait. I thought I was full of crap. Can we get a clarification? My wife is very interested in this phase of the discussion.

 

[catent]

I watched the film multiple times. Meyers is not in the camera view of the endzone tape until after the ball is released.


Here is the sideline view of the coaches' tape but since it is filmed from the press box, it is too blurry to see what way his helmet is facing when the ball is released. I think it looks like he is already looking back, but with such a crappy image from so far away I do not want to say for sure.

Looks like his head is nearly straight ahead there as the ball was released.

Meyers looks over his right shoulder; Zappe expected him to carry towards the pylon and look over his left.

A miscommunication but not a bad/inaccurate pass IMO.

 

[Thelonious]

I have yet to give a single damn about what you think regarding what I've posted recently.

Well now, THAT is not a very nurturing thing to say, nor is it much of an argument, tbh.

 

[Thelonious]

At a loss for words, I see. Condolences.

 

[Dingleberry]

I watched the film multiple times. Meyers is not in the camera view of the endzone tape until after the ball is released.


Here is the sideline view of the coaches' tape but since it is filmed from the press box, it is too blurry to see what way his helmet is facing when the ball is released. I think it looks like he is already looking back, but with such a crappy image from so far away I do not want to say for sure.

I am glad you posted that photo. It is grainy but also pretty clear his head is not turned. The ball has also been released. Zoom in on Jakobi's helmet. If his head is turned, then Jakobi has a silvery white face because it is all silver to the side. You need to zoom in. He is clearly not yet looking back.

He is not yet at the 20yard line. In the other photo several posts ago, his head his turned while at the 10 yard line. He ran 10+ yards with his head turned?

Please zoom in on that photo. His head is not turned.

 

[Dingleberry]

Wait, wait. I thought I was full of crap. Can we get a clarification? My wife is very interested in this phase of the discussion.

If you are married, you are deemed full of shyt by default. At least that's my experience.

 

[Thelonious]

The crowd booing Mac Jones was an embarrassment. Give the kid a break.
- new offensive coach, Joe Judge, absolutely despised by the Giants team and a failure
- new offensive coach Fat Matt, absolutely despised by the Lions Team and also a failure

and now they’re treating first round investment like this? The coaching the coaching the coaching. This is NOT how you develop.

I agree that the treatment of Mac was ugly, unnecessarily so, both on Bill's and on the fans' part. I favor Zappe, but there was no justification for treating Mac that way. That said, it will be telling to see whether Mac goes into some emotional swan dive, or man's up and does better. That may well be what Bill wants to see. Bill is thoroughly and coldly Machiavellian, so that wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Thelonious]

If you are married, you are deemed full of shyt by default. At least that's my experience.

I didn't get married 'til I was 36, and so my wife was spared the asininity younger men bring to a marriage.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Boooo! I'm a ticket holder and that team deserved to be booed out if the building. When did the Northeast become the Midwest? Shameful sign of the end times.

 

[Deus Irae]

Acknowledged.

Can we all now acknowledge that Mac's lack of completing passes to open receivers does not allow anyone to logically conclude there are not open receivers UNLESS that person has looked at the all-22 views?

No, but getting a full view of the tape is the best way to guess/"analyze".

 

[Rob0729]

I am glad you posted that photo. It is grainy but also pretty clear his head is not turned. The ball has also been released. Zoom in on Jakobi's helmet. If his head is turned, then Jakobi has a silvery white face because it is all silver to the side. You need to zoom in. He is clearly not yet looking back.

He is not yet at the 20yard line. In the other photo several posts ago, his head his turned while at the 10 yard line. He ran 10+ yards with his head turned?

Please zoom in on that photo. His head is not turned.

It isn't pretty clear. I think you are seeing what you want see. It looks to me he is turned, but I will admit it is difficult to tell for sure. And I am not going to make a definitive stance on it because of my stance on this play.


But here is another screen shot just after Zappe threw, but this was at a point in the play where the TV broadcast actually picked up Meyers in his route (it is immediately before Meyers spins around to get the ball) and clearly showed Meyers turned around. Yet, I see no difference between what Meyers looks like than the other image I posted which leads me to believe he was looking back in both plays.



But I am done Zapruder film analyzing this play. Obviously, everyone is going to see what they want to see.

 

[Dingleberry]

It isn't pretty clear. I think you are seeing what you want see. It looks to me he is turned, but I will admit it is difficult to tell for sure. And I am not going to make a definitive stance on it because of my stance on this play.


But here is another screen shot just after Zappe threw, but this was at a point in the play where the TV broadcast actually picked up Meyers in his route (it is immediately before Meyers spins around to get the ball) and clearly showed Meyers turned around. Yet, I see no difference between what Meyers looks like than the other image I posted which leads me to believe he was looking back in both plays.



But I am done Zapruder film analyzing this play. Obviously, everyone is going to see what they want to see.

Ok, Jakobi sprinted with his head fully turned for over 10 yards. Fine, that's all we can go on for now.

Will you concede that at worst, Zappe aimed and began his throwing motion before Jakobi turned his head? Even if the ball hadn't left his hand yet, in real world athletics, a QB must decide where the ball is going before the ball actually leaves his hand. Football 101 question. Where should the throw go? To the outside or to the center of the field. Rhetorical question but feel free to answer.

If you really believe Zappe saw Jakobi with his head turned inside before even beginning his throwing motion, stick with that theory I guess.