NY Times: Pats fans are crazy conspiracy theorists

[raduray]

As a NYT subscriber, I got to submit a comment:

raduray
Worcester 1 minute ago

People believe what they're told by authority.

We were told Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we all believed it, except for those few who really dug into the facts.

Now, the NFL tells us that Brady cheated and the uninformed masses buy into that as well.

Thankfully, the independent federal court has decided that Brady was denied due process.

I challenge all fair minded people to examine the scientific evidence which shows the deflation was caused by cold weather as explained by the Ideal Gas Law: Deflategate Science Simplified | New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard .

And consider that while the NFL has promised to audit ball pressure during this season, there is no commitment to share the data with fans. Why?​

 

[Rob0729]

I am no conspiracy theorist. I think 911 Truthers are disgusting using a tragedy of that level for their crack pot ideas. I think Birthers are insane. Hell, I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone until someone can prove me otherwise.

But Pats fans just follow the facts closer than the rest of the country. Many of the people who believe Brady is guilty and deserved to be punished believe 11 of the 12 balls were 2 PSI under regulation (even though they have no idea what that means).

There are plenty of unbiased people in the media who have called out the whole Deflategate process as a sham and they believe that the NFL manufactured evidence to make the Pats look guilty. Some of these people believe Brady is guilty and still believe the NFL conspired against the Pats.

The real conspiracy lunatics are the people who believe the Pats cheat at every corner. They are the ones who think Belichick had a TV monitor constructed in the parking lot to see replays that the opponents can't or Belichick magically knows on Saturday night on which players didn't travel to Foxboro for the game the next day (here is a hint, it is on the Saturday injury report) or that the Pats bug the locker room or send spies into the locker room to steal the scripted plays for opening drives. Funny that the Times have no problems with those people.

 

[OhExaulted1]

All this for an alleged equiptment violation involving balls. Only one other time has anything been remotely similar with the Jets and kicking balls. The result? I think I saw it was a $9000 fine and the employee was dismissed. There was no discipline for the kicker. Nor was there any for the Long-Snapper nor the Holder, all of whom it could be reasoned that they "more probably than not" had "general awarness" of this alleged infraction.

Somehow a similar alleged violation became a 7-month, $5 million dollar investigation resulting in the decision to take away major orginizational assets in the form of significant draft picks and fines, the suspension of one of the faces of a multi-billion dollar enterprise and an ongoing appeal that will drag this out well over a year and cost countless more millions in legal fees for not only the league office and the players union.

Actually there was another incident that was similar. The Panthers-Vikings game when balls were being heated up during the game. As we know that temperature affects the PSI in balls, so I wonder what the measured PSI levels were? Obviously PSI is so critically important to the integrity of the game the referees must have tested and catalogged the results, right? Or maybe not.

Please no one tell Mark Brunell about that. He'd be a blubbering mess if he knew.

 

[Dr Pain]

Would love to see the 60 minutes sports piece on 60 minutes

 

[Tony2046]

I guess you could call me a "truther". I believe the IGL is a real thing and not just in theory.

I guess you could call me a Birther. I believe Roger was made rather than born. I think a group of mad scientists gathered up 200 pounds of shyte, collected DNA from the ass of a monkey, tossed it all in an incubator and voila Goodell was made.

I know...I know....call me crazy.

 

[Deflatemyballs]

Hey New York Times, have a bigger inferiority complex. You can't!

 

[Marko]

Oh the irony! The people who believe that the Patriots had Matt Walsh on the grassy knoll, Tom Cruise repelling from the locker room ceiling to steal play sheets, Raytheon engineers jamming headsets, Gatorade warmed, locker rooms bugged, and Beavis and Butthead tampering with balls in the 90 second bathroom break to let .2 psi out of each ball are the ones calling us conspiracy theorists?
We didn't spend millions of dollars to get Goodell!
Answer me one question, what would old Roger say if he spent 5 million and the Patrios came up clean? Oops?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

We're still waiting to hear what the three questions are.

I emailed the author and got the following reply, which includes one of the questions - rest will be included in an academic paper:

>>To be clear, we’re not taking a position on what actually happened - I recognize the questions about the evidence. We’re interested in this as a case where factual issues are in dispute on a highly controversial issue. To answer your specific question, the conspiracy question we tested was this: "The NFL is trying to punish Tom Brady in order to distract people from the league’s other problems.” The full wording of all the relevant questions will be forthcoming in a more complete academic paper, which I hope you’ll read - would welcome any comments. Please note in particular that our results are consistent when we control for intensity of football fandom. <<​

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Yes, because clearly the Deflategate investigation and sanctioning was done entirely above board, and there was nothing outrageously suspicious about the whole thing. Surely the Pats are the one team that's ever maybe committed a small procedural infraction, and there was nothing at all out-of-the-ordinary about how the league conducted a sting operation to 'catch' the Pats doing something that even they acknowledged they never cared about prior to that day. And surely their resorting to pretending that the Ideal Gas Law is merely a 'theoretical concept' doesn't speak to a clear agenda by the league office to find what it wanted to find.

Surely that's why a respected circuit judge in NY, even accounting for the deference that is commonly afforded to arbitration awards, still felt compelled to vacate Brady's punishment.

If we're conspiracy theorists in this, it's only because there was an actual conspiracy. It's been all but proven at this point, and it's par for the course with Goodell. Saints fans can attest to that.

This x 10.

Taking it further than it should be on a football board , Deflategate is a microcosm of what is wrong with media and its ramifications on a society who gets a majority of its cues from this 'bunch'.

Extreme power uses that power to harm someone else of far far less power. Then a glib media revels in it with barely a whisper of question on the validity of it all. Then add in the media's excellence at highlighting the knee jerk glib reactions of that slice of society that loves to instantly and loudly react to everything in order to create a message of certainty. Finally add in the marginalizing of those who question the popular theme/actions by the extreme power. We obviously are conspiracy theorists or wackos (or whatever) because we actually gave the actions by the NFL some thought/consideration.

This kind of unchecked power leaves almost no doubt we will be repeatedly muc more marginalized and screwed over by government, corporations, organized movements, individuals of great power, etc. But hey, I'm a conspiracy theorist. The New York Times knows this and obviously know what I have said is wacko stuff. They have to know that. If they didn't it would mean their lack of thinking even a few steps below the surface on "deflategate" makes them something they, as perverse as this is, actually take pride in saying they are not.

 

[memento]

I emailed the author and got the following reply, which includes one of the questions - rest will be included in an academic paper:

>>To be clear, we’re not taking a position on what actually happened - I recognize the questions about the evidence. We’re interested in this as a case where factual issues are in dispute on a highly controversial issue. To answer your specific question, the conspiracy question we tested was this: "The NFL is trying to punish Tom Brady in order to distract people from the league’s other problems.” The full wording of all the relevant questions will be forthcoming in a more complete academic paper, which I hope you’ll read - would welcome any comments. Please note in particular that our results are consistent when we control for intensity of football fandom. <<​

I've been waiting all weekend for that response. Thanks for following up, Slow.

I doubt Nyhan asked about how much the balls actually measured, or if the Colts' balls were under regulation pressure, or the logo and non-logo gauges; but I'll hope for the best. The frustrating thing about this is that it's on the media to inform the public, and the Pats have been getting the short end of the stick since the erroneous report of 10.1 psi.

 

[supafly]

Yes, because clearly the Deflategate investigation and sanctioning was done entirely above board, and there was nothing outrageously suspicious about the whole thing. Surely the Pats are the one team that's ever maybe committed a small procedural infraction, and there was nothing at all out-of-the-ordinary about how the league conducted a sting operation to 'catch' the Pats doing something that even they acknowledged they never cared about prior to that day. And surely their resorting to pretending that the Ideal Gas Law is merely a 'theoretical concept' doesn't speak to a clear agenda by the league office to find what it wanted to find.

Surely that's why a respected circuit judge in NY, even accounting for the deference that is commonly afforded to arbitration awards, still felt compelled to vacate Brady's punishment.

If we're conspiracy theorists in this, it's only because there was an actual conspiracy. It's been all but proven at this point, and it's par for the course with Goodell. Saints fans can attest to that.

Not meaning to ballwash, but your posts have been on fire lately. Just wanted to point that out. Definitely one of the more solid contributors to the entire forum on an everyday basis.

 

[Koma]

Oh the irony! The people who believe that the Patriots had Matt Walsh on the grassy knoll, Tom Cruise repelling from the locker room ceiling to steal play sheets, Raytheon engineers jamming headsets, Gatorade warmed, locker rooms bugged, and Beavis and Butthead tampering with balls in the 90 second bathroom break to let .2 psi out of each ball are the ones calling us conspiracy theorists?
We didn't spend millions of dollars to get Goodell!
Answer me one question, what would old Roger say if he spent 5 million and the Patriots came up clean? Oops?

That's an excellent and underrated point. Even if the league hadn't been spreading false information to make the Patriots appear guilty, they weren't going to embark on a high profile and high price tag investigation that found no wrongdoing.

Factoring in the false, but incriminating sounding, information the NFL fed to Mortensen, Peter King, and Gerry Austin, the league had committed itself to finding the Patriots guilty. Ted Wells and Exponent were commissioned to do that and Jeff Pash tailored their findings to make sure it looked like they did. For example, one of the Patriots employees used the word "deflator" in a text one time. The Wells report referenced that nearly 20 times. That text was sent in May, while the NFL draft was going on. The Wells report listed that text among the ones sent in October, to make it seem like it was being used during the season.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

As a NYT subscriber, I got to submit a comment:

raduray
Worcester 1 minute ago

People believe what they're told by authority.

We were told Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we all believed it, except for those few who really dug into the facts.

Now, the NFL tells us that Brady cheated and the uninformed masses buy into that as well.

Thankfully, the independent federal court has decided that Brady was denied due process.

I challenge all fair minded people to examine the scientific evidence which shows the deflation was caused by cold weather as explained by the Ideal Gas Law: Deflategate Science Simplified | New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard .

And consider that while the NFL has promised to audit ball pressure during this season, there is no commitment to share the data with fans. Why?​

Would be better if you can edit a different example in paragraph 3 since that is false and obviously so to most anyone who was around at that time. You could say WMDs.

 

[raduray]

Would be better if you can edit a different example in paragraph 3 since that is false and obviously so to most anyone who was around at that time. You could say WMDs.

The invasion of Iraq would not have happened without the hysteria whipped up by the Bush administration after 9/11. Through its innuendo, the majority of Americans was led to believe that Iraq was responsible. In retrospect, we and most of the locals would be better off with Hussein still in power. Ditto for Libya and now Syria, and those are on Obama.

I don't want to get too carried away with this since this is not the proper forum, and re-litigating the Iraq war was not my intent, but I felt I had to respond. I would be more than willing to continue this on the Political Discussion Forum if you want.

BTW, I was around, I was well informed, and I was in the minority that thought the reasons for going to war were a crock.

 

[meatface]

Its never good when owners are actively saying how they want to punish the patriots for stuff they perceive the Patriots did in the past. Goodell is a stooge but Owners out to get the Pats franchise does scare me a bit

 

[goheels22002]

Get off my Internet or I'll call the Commissioner.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

The invasion of Iraq would not have happened without the hysteria whipped up by the Bush administration after 9/11. Through its innuendo, the majority of Americans was led to believe that Iraq was responsible. In retrospect, we and most of the locals would be better off with Hussein still in power. Ditto for Libya and now Syria, and those are on Obama.

I don't want to get too carried away with this since this is not the proper forum, and re-litigating the Iraq war was not my intent, but I felt I had to respond. I would be more than willing to continue this on the Political Discussion Forum if you want.

BTW, I was around, I was well informed, and I was in the minority that thought the reasons for going to war were a crock.

Many people think the reasons were a crock, that's why I suggested you change it to WMDs, which was a reason that was used.

Colin Powell's UN speech on the case for Iraq:

Full text of Colin Powell's speech