Nice Curran smackdown on Framegate II

[TheBostonStraggler]

baloney

Multiple choice question:
The NFL raided the Patriots locker room last Sunday looking for evidence of cheating. The answer as to why the NFL raided the Patriots facilities looking for cheating is:
(1) Goodell and his staff are eyeing the Patriots specifically for the deflategate win of Tom Brady in court.
(2) Baloney, it isn't Goodell. This is Bob Kraft's fault for not fighting/not fighting harder.

It's a pick 'em....

 

[Deus Irae]

Multiple choice question:
The NFL raided the Patriots locker room last Sunday looking for evidence of cheating. The answer as to why the NFL raided the Patriots facilities looking for cheating is:
(1) Goodell and his staff are eyeing the Patriots specifically for the deflategate win of Tom Brady in court.
(2) Baloney, it isn't Goodell. This is Bob Kraft's fault for not fighting/not fighting harder.

It's a pick 'em....

Was it also a pick 'em when you yourself chose to put "blame" in quotes earlier, because you understood full well what I was saying, and you tried the shift in an attempt to take the heat off of Bob?

Come on. Be better than that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There's just as good a chance that he's Fredo, but without the double cross.

Lol.

I'll take a little Santino.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Was it also a pick 'em when you yourself chose to put "blame" in quotes earlier, because you understood full well what I was saying, and you tried the shift in an attempt to take the heat off of Bob?

Come on. Be better than that.

I thought my point was clear but, in case it wasn't, here it is as clearly as I think it can be:

(1) Goodell is eyeing the Patriots based exclusively on the Patriots and Brady not accepting the commissioner's carte blanche authority to make it up as he goes.
(2) If Kraft fights this from the beginning (I wish he had) it would not have changed Goodell's eyeing the Patriots. I believe it would be worse.
(3) I'm puzzled why you/others believe the reason for Goodell eyeing the Patriots/last Sunday's BS is due to Kraft bending over in the beginning.
(4) The reason for the crap pulled last Sunday is to be blamed squarely on Goodell.​

a-when I say Goodell I say it as a collective for the whole snake pit in Goodell's office.
b-when I say "eyeing the Patriots" it is a blanket statement for Goodewll wanting to subtly and not so subtly 'chop chop' the Patriots.

No worries DI. If you and others see Kraft's early capitulation as the main or one of the main reasons for this on going crap pulled by Goodell, let's just agree to disagree on that. But maybe we can all agree that Goodell is, ultimately, the arch enemy here? That his actions were definitely with malice in mind while Kraft's actions weren't with malice, but instead actions based on a poor thought process/valuing the wrong thing?

 

[kudzif]

My only hope is that Jonathan is the NFL version of Michael Corleone sitting down with Solozzo and McClusky before he needs to go to the bathroom.

This is real life there is no grand master plan from Kraft.He blames league officials whatever that means: Kraft does not realize the other owners are smiling in his face whilst stabbing him in the back.

 

[kudzif]

If a bully comes after you and you turtle like Kraft they will keep coming after you. Even if patriots ultimately lost any appeal against the league but had blooded the league they would have thought twice about pursuing spurious allegations without facts.

 

[Tony2046]

Well....no. You have Bill to blame. If he didn't try to get cute with the camera placement rules, they wouldn't be getting free colonoscopies. If he was unclear about the memo all he had to do was make a phone call to the NFL home office and they would have clarified their poorly worded memo to mean "no taping on the sideline at all".

As for Framegate, there is no...repeat NO recourse Bob could have taken.

Hey Felger. Don't you have to get up early tomorrow to trash the Pats over Bug Gate?

 

[Tony2046]

Kraft had options. The poster claimed otherwise. I simply noted that his claim was not true. I'm not going through a full re-hash of this stuff. It's been covered, both here and in the media.

Months worth for God's sake.

 

[Tony2046]

Multiple choice question:
The NFL raided the Patriots locker room last Sunday looking for evidence of cheating. The answer as to why the NFL raided the Patriots facilities looking for cheating is:
(1) Goodell and his staff are eyeing the Patriots specifically for the deflategate win of Tom Brady in court.
(2) Baloney, it isn't Goodell. This is Bob Kraft's fault for not fighting/not fighting harder.

It's a pick 'em....

They are both part of the problem. Goodell is targeting the Patriots and Kraft does nothing to prevent it. He simply does not fight. If he did Roger would think twice the next time he decided to prove to the other 31 he is relevant.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

They are both part of the problem. Goodell is targeting the Patriots and Kraft does nothing to prevent it. He simply does not fight. If he did Roger would think twice the next time he decided to prove to the other 31 he is relevant.

I'm curious to know exactly what past actions by Goodell leads you to believe that he would respond to the concern of cost/benefit that Kraft would present to him by way of Kraft fighting more?

Brady just slam dunked Goodell. Goodell's response was to hire more lawyers, double down.
Goodell has been made to look bad in court over and over. Has this stopped him from continuing to look bad in court?

Goodell has been overturned by the courts multiple times on his suspension decisions because they dont follow the rules of what he can/how much he can suspend. Has this stopped him from continuing to do these arbitrary suspension level decisions?

Again let me know what it is you think the Patriots can do to make Goodell back off when his track record is he never backs off regardless of how futile or illogical his actions are?

 

[Tony2046]

I thought my point was clear but, in case it wasn't, here it is as clearly as I think it can be: (1) Goodell is eyeing the Patriots based exclusively on the Patriots and Brady not accepting the commissioner's carte blanche authority to make it up as he goes. (2) If Kraft fights this from the beginning (I wish he had) it would not have changed Goodell's eyeing the Patriots. I believe it would be worse. (3) I'm puzzled why you/others believe the reason for Goodell eyeing the Patriots/last Sunday's BS is due to Kraft bending over in the beginning. (4) The reason for the crap pulled last Sunday is to be blamed squarely on Goodell.

a-when I say Goodell I say it as a collective for the whole snake pit in Goodell's office.
b-when I say "eyeing the Patriots" it is a blanket statement for Goodewll wanting to subtly and not so subtly 'chop chop' the Patriots.

No worries DI. If you and others see Kraft's early capitulation as the main or one of the main reasons for this on going crap pulled by Goodell, let's just agree to disagree on that. But maybe we can all agree that Goodell is, ultimately, the arch enemy here? That his actions were definitely with malice in mind while Kraft's actions weren't with malice, but instead actions based on a poor thought process/valuing the wrong thing?

I find this position incredibly wrong. Without going into the history of not standing up for what is right or that capitulation only leads to further capitulation I will only say that I would be incredibly grateful if you never give a Bully prevention class in my childrens school district.

At some point you have to stand up for what's right especially if those that depend on you are getting continually slaughtered by those you are capitulating to,

 

[Tony2046]

I'm curious to know exactly what past actions by Goodell leads you to believe that he would respond to the concern of cost/benefit that Kraft would present to him by way of Kraft fighting more?
Brady just slam dunked Goodell. Goodell's response was to hire more lawyers, double down.
Goodell has been made to look bad in court over and over. Has this stopped him from continuing to look bad in court?
Goodell has been overturned by the courts multiple times on his suspension decisions because they dont follow the rules of what he can/how much he can suspend. Has this stopped him from continuing to do these arbitrary suspension level decisions?

Again let me know what it is you think the Patriots can do to make Goodell back off when his track record is he never backs off regardless of how futile or illogical his actions are?

Do you suggest that Kraft did everything or even anything more than some lip service to appease the fanbase to fight Roger? He absolutely did not. Instead he folded as a coward at the first owners meeting. He did not have to "accept" nor reject any of the punishment at that time. He could have simply stood his ground in that he thought the punishment was unfair and that he would look into his options.

You suggest that we should leave the bully alone and allow him to continue to harass the Pats because anything other than appeasement would be worse. That is such a weak position. If the Pats are in the right, and they are, they should fight this with much more intensity.

 

[Deus Irae]

I thought my point was clear but, in case it wasn't, here it is as clearly as I think it can be: (1) Goodell is eyeing the Patriots based exclusively on the Patriots and Brady not accepting the commissioner's carte blanche authority to make it up as he goes. (2) If Kraft fights this from the beginning (I wish he had) it would not have changed Goodell's eyeing the Patriots. I believe it would be worse. (3) I'm puzzled why you/others believe the reason for Goodell eyeing the Patriots/last Sunday's BS is due to Kraft bending over in the beginning. (4) The reason for the crap pulled last Sunday is to be blamed squarely on Goodell.

a-when I say Goodell I say it as a collective for the whole snake pit in Goodell's office.
b-when I say "eyeing the Patriots" it is a blanket statement for Goodewll wanting to subtly and not so subtly 'chop chop' the Patriots.

No worries DI. If you and others see Kraft's early capitulation as the main or one of the main reasons for this on going crap pulled by Goodell, let's just agree to disagree on that. But maybe we can all agree that Goodell is, ultimately, the arch enemy here? That his actions were definitely with malice in mind while Kraft's actions weren't with malice, but instead actions based on a poor thought process/valuing the wrong thing?

Here's what you need to ask yourself:

Which is the worse evil:

The man who strikes from outside
The man who betrays you from the inside

When you answer that question, you'll understand why Bob shouldn't be forgiven absent obvious, significant and clearly heartfelt penance.

Furthermore, by propping up Goodell for years, even after Spygate, Bountygate, etc..., and by helping Goodell keep the hard line during the CBA negotiations, even though he had to be smart enough to know it was a terrible idea,

Kraft helped to build the monster.

 

[Tony2046]

Here's what you need to ask yourself:

Which is the worse evil:

The man who strikes from outside
The man who betrays you from the inside

When you answer that question, you'll understand why Bob shouldn't be forgiven absent obvious, significant and clearly heartfelt penance.

Furthermore, by propping up Goodell for years, even after Spygate, Bountygate, etc..., and by helping Goodell keep the hard line during the CBA negotiations, even though he had to be smart enough to know it was a terrible idea,

Kraft helped to build the monster.

I cannot winner rate this enough.

 

[Tony2046]

@TheBostonStraggler

I want you to know that although I completely disagree with you on this issue that I generally enjoy your posts and do respect your opinion.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Here's what you need to ask yourself:

Which is the worse evil:

The man who strikes from outside
The man who betrays you from the inside

When you answer that question, you'll understand why Bob shouldn't be forgiven absent obvious, significant and clearly heartfelt penance.

Furthermore, by propping up Goodell for years, even after Spygate, Bountygate, etc..., and by helping Goodell keep the hard line during the CBA negotiations, even though he had to be smart enough to know it was a terrible idea,

Kraft helped to build the monster.

Kraft helped build the monster known as Goodell? Yes.
Kraft and the other owners are most responsible for a man like Goodell being in power? Yes

But what Goodell is doing now is not fair to say any owner per se should have known it would come to. At this point Goodell's actions right now are on Goodell. Even with seeming tacit carte blanche from owners, acting out as dictator still ultimately falls squarely on him. On that larger issue, as a side not and IMHO, Goodell has parlayed a majority support among certain owners to blaze this trail of FU to anyone anywhere who gets out of line. It stinks and, I suspect, it has made owners fear speaking out/taking an adversarial stand.

I think the premise of your oher item is wrong. You are equivocating Kraft's sentiment and Goodell's sentiment behind each of their actions as similar. I believe Goodell acted with malice, period. He wanted to harm the Patriots to further some internal/PR nonsense. Kraft acted out of stupidity and/or naivety, and prioritizing the wrong values. I don't think Kraft thought 'to hell with Brady' or BB or the team or the fans. I think Kraft thinks the suspension of Brady/the nonsense he has gone through and the loss of the draft picks suck the big one to a major degree and it pisses him off. Obviously all of this, yours and mine, is hard to know as fact as we are not on the room with him. I choose to see Kraft as a guy who values his team, player and fans a lot but he made a terrible error in judgment.
If you see his stupidity (or if you see it as malice) as unforgivable that is to each our own judgment call.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

@TheBostonStraggler

I want you to know that although I completely disagree with you on this issue that I generally enjoy your posts and do respect your opinion.

Thanks brother, I respect your view. We're good. Hey, if we always agreed the board would be as boring as tonight's Pakcers Denver game, right?

 

[tuckeverlasting]

This is real life there is no grand master plan from Kraft.He blames league officials whatever that means: Kraft does not realize the other owners are smiling in his face whilst stabbing him in the back.

 

[Deus Irae]

Kraft helped build the monster known as Goodell? Yes.
Kraft and the other owners are most responsible for a man like Goodell being in power? Yes

But what Goodell is doing now is not fair to say any owner per se should have known it would come to. At this point Goodell's actions right now are on Goodell.

Why is it not fair to say that the owners, and particularly Kraft should have seen this coming? Joker and I saw it about a decade ago, and we've been preaching about it for a long, long time.

I think the premise of your oher item is wrong.

It's not.

You are equivocating Kraft's sentiment and Goodell's sentiment behind each of their actions as similar. I believe Goodell acted with malice, period. He wanted to harm the Patriots to further some internal/PR nonsense. Kraft acted out of stupidity and/or naivety, and prioritizing the wrong values. I don't think Kraft thought 'to hell with Brady' or BB or the team or the fans. I think Kraft thinks the suspension of Brady/the nonsense he has gone through and the loss of the draft picks suck the big one to a major degree and it pisses him off. Obviously all of this, yours and mine, is hard to know as fact as we are not on the room with him. I choose to see Kraft as a guy who values his team, player and fans a lot but he made a terrible error in judgment.
If you see his stupidity (or if you see it as malice) as unforgivable that is to each our own judgment call.

Kraft knowingly and willfully chose money and wrong over honor and right, and he screwed the people who needed him as a result. You can pretend that's not an evil all you want. Your conscience knows better, but most people ignore their consciences nowadays, so you'll be in good company.

 

[goheels22002]

I read a piece yesterday that said the Pats Are worried about that scenario.

Now who is getting into who's mind?

The Patriots should run a clean operation from top to bottom and strenuously challenge any accusations. The Patrios win by doing their talking on the field as they have for the past 15 years.