NFL's Integrity* on display again: league hid $100M+ from players to keep salary cap down

[OhExaulted1]

OE, I respect you as a poster as well and the remark was hyperbole and not intended as personal. If you took it that way my apology, however I made it because you have called those critical of Kraft "Goodell supporters" literally dozens of times when you know its an outright lie and that they are in fact more vitriolic in their hate for Goodell than they ever have been Kraft. I have been completely reasonable on Kraft but I think its ridiculous to pretend he didn't f.ck up when he in fact apologized for it.

Fine. I'll call you Kensil supporters instead. Truce? (I'm kidding of course)

 

[Ring 6]

You are frustrated that our fan base is in lynch-mode with any entity (NFL, Indy Peyton, NYJ) that has wronged the Pats in the past. I get it.

It's more that at the hint of anything people go over the top and rush to judgment which makes patriot fans look like silly conspiracy theorists bent on paranoia which takes away from the fact that we are 100% iron clad in the right on sciencegate.
Why fly off the handle and become the conviction of everyone.

To say that I am not interested in the facts is BS. Ive been pretty consistent in spelling out what the WSJ article has detailed and applying my own professional experience to the matter and coming up with my interpretation of what they did/didn't do. I can assure you there isn't a shred of vindictiveness in my analysis.

100% take your word that that is your intention but your post come off making assumptions and being vindictive. Implying your belief they are dishonest is the proof they are guilty is an example.

The facts are pretty straightforward and maybe unlike others I am not treating this like Deflategate.

1) NFLPA auditors discovered the accounting discrepancy

2) The NFL denied it hadn't done anything wrong. However...

3) The CBA tells us that...
A.Players get 40 percent of ticket sales
B. Players get 45 percent from sponsorship revenue
C. Players get 55 percent from media deals and cash from NFL.com, the NFL Network and other such entities.
D. The league has several exemptions from the revenue sharing like money from personal seat licenses, premium seating, etc. The NFL/owners is allowed to take those funds any allocate them to revenue expenditures or earmark them for capital expenses. At any rate there is a process and governance involved as it relates to how financials are documented and reported. I'm assuming that the league's accounting practice is pretty standard for a F500 corp.

4)The audit found the NFL created an exemption it called the “waived gate” exemption, one that isn’t delineated in the agreement when in actually the revenue was from ticket sales. Are you going to make the claim that the NFL/owners bean counters did not know that money was from ticket sales and mistakenly created a "brand new" journal entry? Creating a new journal entry is not something that is randomly done by a single individual. Keep in mind by mislabeling the revenue there are also tax benefits/ramifications that the teams realize by doing so. My point: this was calculated and well-thought out. Plus how they classify revenue in the CBA is pretty straightforward. They did it properly for everything else and screw up on just this? Meh...

5) The NFL, refusing to act in good faith challenged the NFLPA's interpretation of the journal entry and seeing that they weren't getting to a satisfactory resolution took them to arbitration.

6) The NFL lost in a manner consistent to Tyson/Spinks in 1988 because it was so obvious to what they were doing.

If you want to categorize this event as the NFL taking advantage of a gray area and an honest mistake go ahead. I categorize it as the NFL (the owners really) knew exactly what they were doing and they did it for tax benefits and because they have a fundamental belief that they are entitled to the money to fix their stadiums when need be and it shouldn't come out of their pocket but rather the players and not some simple accounting oversight.

2 has no point in the discussion other than to shine a bad light. They filed the report. Of course they believed it was allowable. This is what I mean. Nflpa and NFL disagree so you conclude NFL is acting slimy by disagreeing.

3 I have not studied the CBA on this issue and don't really intend to but I'm pretty sure you haven't either so perhaps I'm wrong but i don't think you ar accurately describing the complete verbiage I the CBA nor that it is devoid of any difference in interpretation. If this is a verbatim analysis can you link me to the section so I can read it?

4 didn't you say a day or 2 ago that they stole the money to use on stadium improvements?
Again it appears to be a layman description of what you read somewhere the CBA says. Apologies if that is wrong and again please link.

5 this is a perfect example of your unintended bias and vindictiveness. Why would you characterize this as not acting in good faith? What is good faith? What is the procedure that was agreed to? NFL dies books. NFLPA audits. If they disagree they go to arbitration.
This is exactly what happened. Where is the jack if good faith?

6 that's not relevant to anything other than they were wrong. The conspiracy stuff is not bolstered by how long the ruling took.


Finally and most importantly you last comment just is not right.

The CBA allows the teams to fund stadium improvements by earmarking revenues to be used for them and deduct them from the CVS calculation. Whether it's from luxury boxes or waived gate all of those costs will be paid and not part of the cap pool.


Look at it this way. ( simplified because there are other categories)
200 mill stadium repairs.
100 mill luxury box income per year
100 mill waived gate

If you count waived gate you remove the entire 200 mill from the cap year 1. If you don't you reduce it by 100 mill 2 years in a row.
For all the hubbub this was zero sum gain from the Nflpa because all of ybise stadium upgrades will get deducted from the cap pool in time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

@AndyJohnson

Your formatting from your response is all messed up so out of courtesy I will try to respond to your points.

2 has no point in the discussion other than to shine a bad light. They filed the report. Of course they believed it was allowable. This is what I mean. Nflpa and NFL disagree so you conclude NFL is acting slimy by disagreeing.

We are going round and round on this. There is a GL template & journal entries that was agreed upon by the NFLPA & NFL and the league (teams) unilaterally decided that it needed to add an additional one. They went off the GL template and they got caught. Again, it is a mystery to me why it too them so long to find it. Maybe the previous NFLPA audit examiner sucked and the new one found it. Who knows. It was the same firm so...

3 I have not studied the CBA on this issue and don't really intend to but I'm pretty sure you haven't either so perhaps I'm wrong but i don't think you ar accurately describing the complete verbiage I the CBA nor that it is devoid of any difference in interpretation. If this is a verbatim analysis can you link me to the section so I can read it?

I'm not a CBA guru either but its in the CBA and I read it somewhere a couple of days ago. I'm not making it up.

4 didn't you say a day or 2 ago that they stole the money to use on stadium improvements?
Again it appears to be a layman description of what you read somewhere the CBA says. Apologies if that is wrong and again please link.

I never said stole. That was someone else.

5 this is a perfect example of your unintended bias and vindictiveness. Why would you characterize this as not acting in good faith? What is good faith? What is the procedure that was agreed to? NFL dies books. NFLPA audits. If they disagree they go to arbitration.
This is exactly what happened. Where is the jack if good faith?

I'll look at this from your view and play it out so I can be clearer. NFL has revenue that they feel needs to be earmarked as an allowable revenue/capital expenditure. Because of how the revenue was realized they need to create a different journal entry in the GL/Income Statement/Balance sheet they they have been using. As I said there are agreed-upon accounting format and agreed-upon revenue classifications that the MUST use. If they don't use them it is in violation of of the CBA. Keep in mind the CBA is a living document. They can amend it at any time (I would imagine that its a pain in the ass but thats beside the point) Rather than have an open dialogue and resolve the issue in good faith, they deny, deny,deny and force the NFLPA to go to arbitration. That behavior is not trying to resolve an issue in good faith. That is acrimony at its finest. Is the NFLPA hostile too? Very possible but it was the league that played games with the books- not the NFLPA.

6 that's not relevant to anything other than they were wrong. The conspiracy stuff is not bolstered by how long the ruling took.

I disagree. If this was a situation where financial forensics were required or there was a change in the standards being applied on how the new journal entry/class of revenue was to be considered it would have been a bit more complex to be resolved. The fact that the ruling was so straightforward tells you that it was a no-brainier. Now, to help your argument maybe if the NFL wanted to be super sneaky they could have done something along the lines of a casino-type skim but that would be really dishonest and get them in hot water with the IRS if they were ever audited. Their dishonesty was measured because it did not accompany a federal penalty and I give them credit for that.

Finally and most importantly you last comment just is not right.

The CBA allows the teams to fund stadium improvements by earmarking revenues to be used for them and deduct them from the CVS calculation. Whether it's from luxury boxes or waived gate all of those costs will be paid and not part of the cap pool.

Look at it this way. ( simplified because there are other categories)
200 mill stadium repairs.
100 mill luxury box income per year
100 mill waived gate

If you count waived gate you remove the entire 200 mill from the cap year 1. If you don't you reduce it by 100 mill 2 years in a row.
For all the hubbub this was zero sum gain from the Nflpa because all of ybise stadium upgrades will get deducted from the cap pool in time.

Good points and you are correct but for all we know there were cost overruns on reno projects for some of the teams and they needed more cash. In my 15 minute analysis which is worth a bus token some of these teams completely suck with managing their cash flow.

 

[Ring 6]

@AndyJohnson

Your formatting from your response is all messed up so out of courtesy I will try to respond to your points.

Trying to insert quotes from the iphone never a good idea.

We are going round and round on this. There is a GL template & journal entries that was agreed upon by the NFLPA & NFL and the league (teams) unilaterally decided that it needed to add an additional one. They went off the GL template and they got caught. Again, it is a mystery to me why it too them so long to find it. Maybe the previous NFLPA audit examiner sucked and the new one found it. Who knows. It was the same firm so...

I think you are oversimplifying this. The result is that it makes it look devious. Why is it necessary to paint intent? The reason this matters is because that is what was done to us. Taking something you do not know all the facts about and using it to show a conspiracy is what Wells did. Can;'t we be better than that?

I'm not a CBA guru either but its in the CBA and I read it somewhere a couple of days ago. I'm not making it up.

Well that is my point. I don't contend you are making it up, but you are citing it as fact, because you read it somewhere. My point is before you call it black and white purposeful deceit shouldn't you know the facts and where the gray area is? You are saying there is no gray area and you base that on belief without actually reading it. Again, its like Wells saying he knows they weren't telling the truth.

I never said stole. That was someone else.

OK

I'll look at this from your view and play it out so I can be clearer. NFL has revenue that they feel needs to be earmarked as an allowable revenue/capital expenditure. Because of how the revenue was realized they need to create a different journal entry in the GL/Income Statement/Balance sheet they they have been using.

You do not know the accounting behind it so again you are reaching for the purpose of making it look dishonest.

As I said there are agreed-upon accounting format and agreed-upon revenue classifications that the MUST use.

How do you know this?

If they don't use them it is in violation of of the CBA. Keep in mind the CBA is a living document. They can amend it at any time (I would imagine that its a pain in the ass but thats beside the point) Rather than have an open dialogue and resolve the issue in good faith, they deny, deny,deny and force the NFLPA to go to arbitration.

This is another point where you lose me. The NFLPA audits and finds something they contest. Why would that mean the NFL is acting in bad faith by disagreeing? This goes back to your idea that its an Excel sheet and they plug in numbers and the problem is because they added an extra line. That is something you have created and introduced into the discussion with no knowledge that its a fact.

That behavior is not trying to resolve an issue in good faith. That is acrimony at its finest. Is the NFLPA hostile too? Very possible but it was the league that played games with the books- not the NFLPA.

Good faith is that the resolution process is arbitration. That is the process. You don't have to give in when you think you are right to show good faith. They showed up at the arbitration and made a case. Just because they lost doesn't mean they had no case, just one that lost.

I disagree. If this was a situation where financial forensics were required or there was a change in the standards being applied on how the new journal entry/class of revenue was to be considered it would have been a bit more complex to be resolved. The fact that the ruling was so straightforward tells you that it was a no-brainier. Now, to help your argument maybe if the NFL wanted to be super sneaky they could have done something along the lines of a casino-type skim but that would be really dishonest and get them in hot water with the IRS if they were ever audited. Their dishonesty was measured because it did not accompany a federal penalty and I give them credit for that.

So everyone that loses a case acted deceitfully and knew they were wrong all along?
You are letting Florios dubious legal opinions about the speed of the hearing become your evidence of dishonesty. That is wrong. That is Wellsian.

Good points and you are correct but for all we know there were cost overruns on reno projects for some of the teams and they needed more cash. In my 15 minute analysis which is worth a bus token some of these teams completely suck with managing their cash flow.

Maybe they had cost overruns and MAYBE NFL TEAMS ARE BROKE is a real stretch to explain what you are describing as an elaborate scheme to remove air pressure from a football defraud the NFLPA in order to get the money sooner.

Again, can't we be better than them? Can't we accept that until we know the facts, you can't convict someone of something because of reputation?
You are taking the CBA that you didn't read, your 'impression' of how the costs were accounted for, that you do not know, and using it to 'prove' a conspiracy just as Kensil took air pressure without knowing the facts of science, leading to exponent bastardizing it.

 

[Kontradiction]

You have to talk sh.t because you can't win the argument on the facts. Kraft is the one who stood by and supported Goodell while he f.cked the franchise, and he apologized for it. Every Patriot fan alive knew Goodell could not be trusted but Kraft was somehow "duped" by him, yet when he assigned blame for it he excused Goodell and instead blamed lawyers in the league office and has continued to pal around with him. You have no answer for this so instead you pretend that criticizing Kraft means support for Goodell, when in fact you know full well that those criticizing Kraft were the ones who said Goodell could never be trusted.

To be clear yet again I don't hate Kraft and in fact think he is the best owner the Patriots have ever had and Have said so many times and been criticized for it. However I do believe that Kraft's need to be part of the billionaires boys club has led him to make some bad decisions, including his defense of Goodell on Ray Rice, telling Jones and Snyder to suck it up and take their sanctions, and captitualting on Deflategate. After what Goodell did to them on Spygate there is no excuse whatsoever for being "duped" by Goodell again. You can continue to pretend that Kraft is above reproach all you want but even he knows it isn't true.

Let us also not forget Kraft's support for Goodell before this happened and how integral he was in the first place to Goodell's reign. Either way you slice it, Kraft ****** up big time then tossed out a half assed apology (which just so happened to take place before opening night and a national television audience at home) because he didn't want to be boo'ed by the home crowd. The sheep bought it hook, line, and sinker and the guy who sold his own franchise quarterback up ****'s Creek without a paddle for the good of the other 31 came out to a raucous ovation. What a master stroke of brilliance.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think you guys definitely have a chance of changing the other guy's mind if you type enough words.

 

[1960Pats]

Let us also not forget Kraft's support for Goodell before this happened and how integral he was in the first place to Goodell's reign. Either way you slice it, Kraft ****** up big time then tossed out a half assed apology (which just so happened to take place before opening night and a national television audience at home) because he didn't want to be boo'ed by the home crowd. The sheep bought it hook, line, and sinker and the guy who sold his own franchise quarterback up ****'s Creek without a paddle for the good of the other 31 came out to a raucous ovation. What a master stroke of brilliance.

It didn't work on me.

The Pats were unfairly penalized an outrageous amount for nothing in both 2007 and 2015. After the 2007 "violation" Kraft labeled Belichick a schmuck and in 2015 he capitulated and did nothing. He then continued to support his choice for Commish even though that support gave wheels to the Cheatriot Hatewagon.

The simple fact is that prior to 2007, the Pats dynasty of 2001-2004 was being recognized as one of the best teams of all time. Through Kraft's handling of the 2007 and 2015 incidents the Pats name will be getting dragged through the mud long after he's gone.

Sadly, that will be his legacy.

 

[Kontradiction]

It didn't work on me.

The Pats were unfairly penalized an outrageous amount for nothing in both 2007 and 2015. After the 2007 "violation" Kraft labeled Belichick a schmuck and in 2015 he capitulated and did nothing. He then continued to support his choice for Commish even though that support gave wheels to the Cheatriot Hatewagon.

The simple fact is that prior to 2007, the Pats dynasty of 2001-2004 was being recognized as one of the best teams of all time. Through Kraft's handling of the 2007 and 2015 incidents the Pats name will be getting dragged through the mud long after he's gone.

Sadly, that will be his legacy.

The apology would have been fine if something of substance had followed it. Unfortunately, the only thing that followed it was a nice, cute hug before the Giants game. Now... back to our regularly scheduled programming in this thread: Word Salad.

 

[Zeus]

Not busting your balls, but given that you don't know the real facts, reread your post from the perspective of the league is the Patriots, and the issue is Sciencegate.
Many people, including the league, felt the Patriots didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt regardless of the facts.

Here, I copied your post and changed the perspective. (changes in caps)

The owners PATRIOTS tried to cook the books ALTER THE FOOTBALLS in their favor and nearly got away with it. Seems like business as usual to me.

Illegal? Hard to say without more information.

Unethical? What do you think?

You'd have to be extremely gullible to think that this was an innocent mistake. From the players' LEAGUES point of view, this will do nothing to lessen the massive level of distrust and animosity they feel toward ownership. BELICHICK AND THE PATRIOTS

I would expect the relationship between the players NFL and owners PATRIOTS to continue to deteriorate. A lot of this is directly attributable to the actions of the commissioner BILL BELICHICK AND THE PATRIOTS with respect to disciplinary matters, his callous disregard for player safety FOLLOWING THE RULES and the outrageous amount of money he pulls out of the league. CHEATING THAT GOES ON IN NEW ENGLAND If your actions consistently show that all you care about is money, WINNING you can't very well expect the benefit of a doubt in situations like this. People are going to believe the worst. Roger BELICHICK has no one to blame but himself.

The NFL's BELICHICKS attempt to characterize this as a bookkeeping oversight SCIENCE is laughable, especially after they went to arbitration to try to justify their actions. CONDUCTRED AND INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION THAT FOUND THEM GUILTY. This is another arrow in the quiver for De Smith GODDELL to rile up the rank and file OWNERS whenever the time comes.

See, in essence you are playing the part of Gregg Doyel in assuming everything is what you wish it would be because it makes the people you don't like look bad.

This is my point. Aren't WE supposed to be better than that?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Trying to insert quotes from the iphone never a good idea.

Agreed. I suck at it.

I think you are oversimplifying this. The result is that it makes it look devious. Why is it necessary to paint intent? The reason this matters is because that is what was done to us. Taking something you do not know all the facts about and using it to show a conspiracy is what Wells did. Can;'t we be better than that?

Sure but with my experience and understanding of the situation I think they were trying to pull a fast one.

Well that is my point. I don't contend you are making it up, but you are citing it as fact, because you read it somewhere. My point is before you call it black and white purposeful deceit shouldn't you know the facts and where the gray area is? You are saying there is no gray area and you base that on belief without actually reading it. Again, its like Wells saying he knows they weren't telling the truth.

You keep comparing this to Ted Wells. Seriously? There is no gray area. Its as black and white as can be. It's either revenue that is ok for capex or not.

You do not know the accounting behind it so again you are reaching for the purpose of making it look dishonest.

No but I have a pretty good idea.

How do you know this?

If two companies are opening up each other's books for auditing purposes prior to an audit there is a foundational understanding of the accounting standard being applied. I'm sure the NFLPA doesn't care what the NFL uses, as long as they know what it is.

This is another point where you lose me. The NFLPA audits and finds something they contest. Why would that mean the NFL is acting in bad faith by disagreeing? This goes back to your idea that its an Excel sheet and they plug in numbers and the problem is because they added an extra line. That is something you have created and introduced into the discussion with no knowledge that its a fact.

Huh? GL & financial statements are a helluva lot more than Excel spreadsheets. I've stated in the past that its the opposite of trivial.

Good faith is that the resolution process is arbitration. That is the process. You don't have to give in when you think you are right to show good faith. They showed up at the arbitration and made a case. Just because they lost doesn't mean they had no case, just one that lost.

We view conflict resolution a bit differently. In my opinion the best business decision is that you avoid arbitration at all costs as you really don't know what will happen in front of an arbitrator and you want the distraction to end quickly. The NFL has the muscle to fight and since there isn't a penalty for an accounting "oversight" there isn't any skin of their nose to say FU to the NFLPA and battle them in court

So everyone that loses a case acted deceitfully and knew they were wrong all along?
You are letting Florios dubious legal opinions about the speed of the hearing become your evidence of dishonesty. That is wrong. That is Wellsian.

I read Florio but I don't think he is influencing my opinion. Quite frankly, I think I have a better financial background and on how major corporations reports earnings and get audited than he does but thats besides the point. You ask how I know things its my experience that dictates my opinion.

Maybe they had cost overruns and MAYBE NFL TEAMS ARE BROKE is a real stretch to explain what you are describing as an elaborate scheme to remove air pressure from a football defraud the NFLPA in order to get the money sooner.

Again, can't we be better than them? Can't we accept that until we know the facts, you can't convict someone of something because of reputation?
You are taking the CBA that you didn't read, your 'impression' of how the costs were accounted for, that you do not know, and using it to 'prove' a conspiracy just as Kensil took air pressure without knowing the facts of science, leading to exponent bastardizing it.

How do you know that I didn't read the CBA? Pretty presumptuous. I'm certainly no expert but I've read more than I should have these last 12 months.

I think we've beaten this to death, Andy. I respect that you think we as Pats fans need to raise our games and look at things with a even keel- which I agree with but in my experience and opinion, there is no basis to do so in this particular instance.

 

[Zeus]

Not busting your balls, but given that you don't know the real facts, reread your post from the perspective of the league is the Patriots, and the issue is Sciencegate.
Many people, including the league, felt the Patriots didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt regardless of the facts.

Here, I copied your post and changed the perspective. (changes in caps)

The owners PATRIOTS tried to cook the books ALTER THE FOOTBALLS in their favor and nearly got away with it. Seems like business as usual to me.

Illegal? Hard to say without more information.

Unethical? What do you think?

You'd have to be extremely gullible to think that this was an innocent mistake. From the players' LEAGUES point of view, this will do nothing to lessen the massive level of distrust and animosity they feel toward ownership. BELICHICK AND THE PATRIOTS

I would expect the relationship between the players NFL and owners PATRIOTS to continue to deteriorate. A lot of this is directly attributable to the actions of the commissioner BILL BELICHICK AND THE PATRIOTS with respect to disciplinary matters, his callous disregard for player safety FOLLOWING THE RULES and the outrageous amount of money he pulls out of the league. CHEATING THAT GOES ON IN NEW ENGLAND If your actions consistently show that all you care about is money, WINNING you can't very well expect the benefit of a doubt in situations like this. People are going to believe the worst. Roger BELICHICK has no one to blame but himself.

The NFL's BELICHICKS attempt to characterize this as a bookkeeping oversight SCIENCE is laughable, especially after they went to arbitration to try to justify their actions. CONDUCTRED AND INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION THAT FOUND THEM GUILTY. This is another arrow in the quiver for De Smith GODDELL to rile up the rank and file OWNERS whenever the time comes.

See, in essence you are playing the part of Gregg Doyel in assuming everything is what you wish it would be because it makes the people you don't like look bad.

This is my point. Aren't WE supposed to be better than that?

Oh my.

Not really sure just what to say here.

I tried (ever so briefly) to read this but just could not. With all of the hen-scratching and CAPITAL LETTERS, it's clear that I've done something to upset someone. WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't even need to read this hyperbolic invective to surmise (from a safe distance) that you believe (rather strongly it would seem) that the generally unwarranted public reaction in other corners of the internet to the peculiar (ahem) justice dispensed by Commissioner Scheisskopf's Kangaroo Court directed at our local heroes somehow disqualifies an innocent bystander such as myself from forming opinions about other (unrelated!) misdeeds perpetrated by the very same Scheisskopf.

Ye Gods! It seems that Scheisskopf is even more devious that we had previously imagined.

Never mind that the owners have a long and well documented track record of trying to screw the players out of every last nickel and Scheisskopf has an even longer and better documented track record of being a monumental ****-up. Let's give them the benefit of a doubt, lest we risk upsetting the delicate sensibilities of somebody or other (not sure exactly whom) who no doubt already hates our ****ing guts.

Anyway, I was just trying to state my opinion. Not all that interested in starting yet another hideous knock-down/drag-out internet donnybrook. I'm am a conscientious objector when it comes to such matters.

Sheesh.

 

[Kontradiction]

Oh my.

Not really sure just what to say here.

I tried (ever so briefly) to read this but just could not. With all of the hen-scratching and CAPITAL LETTERS, it's clear that I've done something to upset someone. WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't even need to read this hyperbolic invective to surmise (from a safe distance) that you believe (rather strongly it would seem) that the generally unwarranted public reaction in other corners of the internet to the peculiar (ahem) justice dispensed by Commissioner Scheisskopf's Kangaroo Court directed at our local heroes somehow disqualifies an innocent bystander such as myself from forming opinions about other (unrelated!) misdeeds perpetrated by the very same Scheisskopf.

Ye Gods! It seems that Scheisskopf is even more devious that we had previously imagined.

Never mind that the owners have a long and well documented track record of trying to screw the players out of every last nickel and Scheisskopf has an even longer and better documented track record of being a monumental ****-up. Let's give them the benefit of a doubt, lest we risk upsetting the delicate sensibilities of somebody or other (not sure exactly whom) who no doubt already hates our ****ing guts.

Anyway, I was just trying to state my opinion. Not all that interested in starting yet another hideous knock-down/drag-out internet donnybrook. I'm am a conscientious objector when it comes to such matters.

Sheesh.

No, by all means please feel free to get into a pissing contest where both of you write the equivalent of a Master's thesis. It definitely doesn't ruin the thread for the rest of us.

 

[Zeus]

No, by all means please feel free to get into a pissing contest where both of you write the equivalent of a Master's thesis. It definitely doesn't ruin the thread for the rest of us.

Sorry. You've got to know by now that's not my department.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh my.

Not really sure just what to say here.

I tried (ever so briefly) to read this but just could not. With all of the hen-scratching and CAPITAL LETTERS, it's clear that I've done something to upset someone. WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't even need to read this hyperbolic invective to surmise (from a safe distance) that you believe (rather strongly it would seem) that the generally unwarranted public reaction in other corners of the internet to the peculiar (ahem) justice dispensed by Commissioner Scheisskopf's Kangaroo Court directed at our local heroes somehow disqualifies an innocent bystander such as myself from forming opinions about other (unrelated!) misdeeds perpetrated by the very same Scheisskopf.

Ye Gods! It seems that Scheisskopf is even more devious that we had previously imagined.

Never mind that the owners have a long and well documented track record of trying to screw the players out of every last nickel and Scheisskopf has an even longer and better documented track record of being a monumental ****-up. Let's give them the benefit of a doubt, lest we risk upsetting the delicate sensibilities of somebody or other (not sure exactly whom) who no doubt already hates our ****ing guts.

Anyway, I was just trying to state my opinion. Not all that interested in starting yet another hideous knock-down/drag-out internet donnybrook. I'm am a conscientious objector when it comes to such matters.

Sheesh.

Clearly you weren't interested in the point I was making, so I won't bother to continue.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Let us also not forget Kraft's support for Goodell before this happened and how integral he was in the first place to Goodell's reign. Either way you slice it, Kraft ****** up big time then tossed out a half assed apology (which just so happened to take place before opening night and a national television audience at home) because he didn't want to be boo'ed by the home crowd. The sheep bought it hook, line, and sinker and the guy who sold his own franchise quarterback up ****'s Creek without a paddle for the good of the other 31 came out to a raucous ovation. What a master stroke of brilliance.

I gave you a disagree because your making things up to fit your narrative. Kraft said nothing opening night:
Patriots, Robert Kraft Let Banner Do The Talking Prior To Season Opener

He made his apology on July 29th:
Robert Kraft: ‘I Was Wrong To Put My Faith’ In NFL On Tom Brady Appeal

I expect this disingenuous BS from 345 Park Ave. not here. Peddle your lies elsewhere like a Jets, Colts or Ravens forum.

 

[Kontradiction]

I gave you a disagree because your making things up to fit your narrative. Kraft said nothing opening night:
Patriots, Robert Kraft Let Banner Do The Talking Prior To Season Opener

He made his apology on July 29th:
Robert Kraft: ‘I Was Wrong To Put My Faith’ In NFL On Tom Brady Appeal

I expect this disingenuous BS from 345 Park Ave. not here. Peddle your lies elsewhere like a Jets, Colts or Ravens forum.

Reading comprehension. Read the post again.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Lol so will Kraft bail them out again during the inevitable lockout?

Nah, he'd be too busy laughing at Goodell failing to stanch his self-inflicted wound.

 

[1960Pats]

A question relative to the subject at hand, the owners hiding money from the players.

Does anyone know what effect the fines that Fraudger doles out to players has on the books or salary cap? If he docks a player part of his salary does that money just disappear from the total salary paid out? Also, where does the fine money go? From a quick glance it looks like every dollar he fines a player saves an owner from paying that amount.

 

[Clonamery]

A question relative to the subject at hand, the owners hiding money from the players.

Does anyone know what effect the fines that Fraudger doles out to players has on the books or salary cap? If he docks a player part of his salary does that money just disappear from the total salary paid out? Also, where does the fine money go? From a quick glance it looks like every dollar he fines a player saves an owner from paying that amount.

I believe it goes to the NFLOA's Retirement Fun.

 

[RobertWeathers]

A question relative to the subject at hand, the owners hiding money from the players.

Does anyone know what effect the fines that Fraudger doles out to players has on the books or salary cap? If he docks a player part of his salary does that money just disappear from the total salary paid out? Also, where does the fine money go? From a quick glance it looks like every dollar he fines a player saves an owner from paying that amount.

Looks like a few places specific to helping fmr players.

I think the docked pay stays with the team but not 100% sure