NFLPA Director warns players and agents to get ready for year long lockout

[patfanken]

They were all but guaranteed to lose on the revenue percentage issue because of how money had been trending, so I consider that a matter of terrible haggling more than a truly blown negotiation. They went overboard on the practice issues when the issue that should have been the most important (discipline, particularly non-game related discipline) was allowed to remain intact.

And the players have kept Smith after that disaster of a CBA, so I'll not have any sympathy for them this time, if they get killed again.

I'm not exactly sure how much they got "killed" in that last CBA. They practice less, wear pads less, they have fewer days of work during the off season and TC.....AND in exchange, their pay went up 41%, or at least the pool of money that determines their pay went up 41%.

So I don't see where they got..."killed"

 

[patfanken]

Huh?
Deatrich Wise was a 4th round pick. His 4 year contract totals 2.98 mill.
He will probably net less than 2 mill of that after taxes.



wise would have zero left in this scenario. Even living on 100k a year he would have 1.6 mill which using your formula would give him
80,000 a year. If he is going to live the rest of his life on that at 4% inflation, in 35 years when he is still pretty young that would be the equivalent of 20,000 in today’s dollars. No fu money there.



My approach to this has always been when people pay to watch me work I can consider my income can be reasonably compared to someone who does.

Andy, most people don't make 3MM in a LIFETIME let alone $3MM in 4 years. But thanks for giving me more detail on the contracts. I'm betting a 3rd round pick would have been closer to my prediction than a low 4th round pick. BTW unless he's doing his taxes on a short form, he'll keep more than $2MM net....and while that's next what I'd call FU money it's close.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, most people don't make 3MM in a LIFETIME let alone $3MM in 4 years. But thanks for giving me more detail on the contracts. I'm betting a 3rd round pick would have been closer to my prediction than a low 4th round pick. BTW unless he's doing his taxes on a short form, he'll keep more than $2MM net....and while that's next what I'd call FU money it's close.

I doubt he keeps more than 2 mill out of 3 after 25% fed tax, state tax, fica, health insurance etc.
67% net on that level of income isn’t out of whack.

I’m not saying he is poor I’m saying a 4th round rookie contract simply doesn’t equal set for life.
By the way someone working from 22 to 65 making 70k a year makes 3 mill in their lifetime and I doubt anyone, especially with a family can live on 70k a year.

 

[XLIX]

I hope the owners push for more practices/training camp. The first few weeks of the season are usually sloppy.

Owners don't give a crap about more practices and training camp. Those don't generate revenue so they have no problem using those as concessions.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, most people don't make 3MM in a LIFETIME let alone $3MM in 4 years. But thanks for giving me more detail on the contracts. I'm betting a 3rd round pick would have been closer to my prediction than a low 4th round pick. BTW unless he's doing his taxes on a short form, he'll keep more than $2MM net....and while that's next what I'd call FU money it's close.

FYI.
Thuney was a 3rd and got 4 years 3.213
Dawson was a 2nd and got 4/4.744

 

[Gronkowski123]

Nflpa is a joke. Unions should be abolished. Bunch of these union guys ****ted on Tb12. All for one, one for all. **** that BS. To hell with the teamsters!

 

[XLIX]

Nflpa is a joke. Unions should be abolished. Bunch of these union guys ****ted on Tb12. All for one, one for all. **** that BS. To hell with the teamsters!

Sports unions aren't exactly in the same boat as teamsters. Teamsters tend to want set pay scales for one and all, whereas the sports unions want the opposite. Regardless....

I would love to see a complete de-unionization of the NFL, and all the consequences that come with it.

 

[Ring 6]

Sports unions aren't exactly in the same boat as teamsters. Teamsters tend to want set pay scales for one and all, whereas the sports unions want the opposite. Regardless....

I would love to see a complete de-unionization of the NFL, and all the consequences that come with it.

A union while having many positive functions is by definition in conflict with itself because at its most basic level it must choose more employment or higher wages typically putting newer members needs against senior members needs.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Sports unions aren't exactly in the same boat as teamsters. Teamsters tend to want set pay scales for one and all, whereas the sports unions want the opposite. Regardless....

I would love to see a complete de-unionization of the NFL, and all the consequences that come with it.

I'd love to see the NFLPA do a legit decertification rather than a sham one.
With no union and no CBA the draft will violate federal law, the salary cap will violate federal law, pretty much any restrictive aspect of free agency will violate federal law, etc. I'd love to see the players have the balls to hang that over the owners' heads.

 

[XLIX]

I'd love to see the NFLPA do a legit decertification rather than a sham one.
With no union and no CBA the draft will violate federal law, the salary cap will violate federal law, pretty much any restrictive aspect of free agency will violate federal law, etc. I'd love to see the players have the balls to hang that over the owners' heads.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too... it'll never happen but could you imagine all players leaving college were UFA's..?!?

 

[patfanken]

By the way someone working from 22 to 65 making 70k a year makes 3 mill in their lifetime and I doubt anyone, especially with a family can live on 70k a year.

A couple of points:
1. NO one making a half million or more is paying 33% of his income in taxes. THAT's what CPA's are for. Back when he was Governor of MA, Mitt Romney's released his tax returns which showed MILLIONS in income (I forgot the exact number, but I didn't forget this one. By the time he all his "deductions" were done his effective tax rate was 14%.

It reminds me of a funny story. Back in the mid 80's I had a friend who ran a small to mid-sized accounting firm. IIRC he had about 25-30 CPA"s working for him. At the time, Congress just passed the Reagan "tax simplification" bill. Which supposedly lowered everyone's tax bracket (although the top brackets got the biggest drops....again), but SUPPOSEDLY the trade off was a lot of tax "loopholes" were closed. So I asked my friend if he was worried about his business now that everything was going to be "simplified". He of course actually read the Bill, and his response was to hire an additional 6 CPA's

It's 40 years later and nothing much has changed much. But the point is the only people who pay the maximum percentage of their incomes are people have W2's and do their taxes on the kitchen table..

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by the comment I highlighted. I think you are saying that if you have a family you it would be very hard to live on $70K per year. I don't disagree. But the fact is that MOST families in the US of A are making due on about HALF that.

The other point I didn't understand.was the one where you point out that someone making 70k for 42 years makes $3MM. What does that have anything to do with the fact a low 4th round pick gets a $3MM for FOUR years?

In the end, your are nitpicking on just what is FU money. Maybe making $3MM in 4 years won't net you FU money, but it will come close if you are smart. At worst it's not a bad start for a 25 or 26 year old.

But in the end, what are we talking about. Take McCoy. He's already earned over 100MM during his career. So we aren't talking about financial security, his standard of living, or feeding his family at this point whether he earns $1MM or the $13MM that was on his contract. At this point all the money means is how they keep score or prove their worth.

Just sayin'

 

[Ring 6]

I'd love to see the NFLPA do a legit decertification rather than a sham one.
With no union and no CBA the draft will violate federal law, the salary cap will violate federal law, pretty much any restrictive aspect of free agency will violate federal law, etc. I'd love to see the players have the balls to hang that over the owners' heads.

It would destroy the sport.

 

[Ring 6]

You are getting away from the point which was you saying a 4th round pick is rolling around in fu money and set for life.

A couple of points:
1. NO one making a half million or more is paying 33% of his income in taxes. THAT's what CPA's are for. Back when he was Governor of MA, Mitt Romney's released his tax returns which showed MILLIONS in income (I forgot the exact number, but I didn't forget this one. By the time he all his "deductions" were done his effective tax rate was 14%.

Deatrich wise doesn’t own a business to write off expenses from. Nonetheless the point of the exercise was how much fu money he has. If he spends it on a tax deductible item he doesn’t have it.
You are confused on how this works I think.

It reminds me of a funny story. Back in the mid 80's I had a friend who ran a small to mid-sized accounting firm. IIRC he had about 25-30 CPA"s working for him. At the time, Congress just passed the Reagan "tax simplification" bill. Which supposedly lowered everyone's tax bracket (although the top brackets got the biggest drops....again), but SUPPOSEDLY the trade off was a lot of tax "loopholes" were closed. So I asked my friend if he was worried about his business now that everything was going to be "simplified". He of course actually read the Bill, and his response was to hire an additional 6 CPA's

It's 40 years later and nothing much has changed much. But the point is the only people who pay the maximum percentage of their incomes are people have W2's and do their taxes on the kitchen table..

No. First if all tax is paid on income within the bracket so no one pays the top tax rate on all of their income. There are also exemptions and deductions that everyone gets. There are also state and local taxes and social security and Medicare (those are over 7%).
How do you think wise would reduce his taxes? The only way is to spend money on deductible items, therefore leaving him without that money. It’s not a mysterious find a button to push to not pay taxes.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by the comment I highlighted. I think you are saying that if you have a family you it would be very hard to live on $70K per year. I don't disagree. But the fact is that MOST families in the US of A are making due on about HALF that.

I’m saying that you said people don’t make 3 mill in their lifetime and that’s what it breaks don’t to.
Most families are not making due on half of that. The median is household income is 61000 and change which includes single people.

The other point I didn't understand.was the one where you point out that someone making 70k for 42 years makes $3MM. What does that have anything to do with the fact a low 4th round pick gets a $3MM for FOUR years?

That was response to you saying people don’t make 3 mill in their life and implying with 3 mill you are set for life with buckets of fu money.

In the end, your are nitpicking on just what is FU money. Maybe making $3MM in 4 years won't net you FU money, but it will come close if you are smart. At worst it's not a bad start for a 25 or 26 year old.

I thought fu money had a pretty clear definition. Money you can blow and not worry about. A good start, or if you are smart with your money isn’t close to fu money.

But in the end, what are we talking about. Take McCoy. He's already earned over 100MM during his career. So we aren't talking about financial security, his standard of living, or feeding his family at this point whether he earns $1MM or the $13MM that was on his contract. At this point all the money means is how they keep score or prove their worth.

Just sayin'

You are moving the goalposts from a typical 4th round pick to a guy who has made 100 mill.
My posts are not arguing that a guy who makes 100mill is struggling to get by.
My posts are directed at your misstatement that a 4th round pick makes 6 mill in 4 years and has 2 mill left after living high on the hog so they shouldn’t worry about the cba. Most of those 4ths don’t even make it through 4 years.
Please don’t take the math that addresses your misconception and move the goalposts to a different argument that I am not making.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too... it'll never happen but could you imagine all players leaving college were UFA's..?!?

That used to be the case. Pro sports were dominated by the teams with the most money and the poorer ones sucked or went out of business.
It would be bad for the players in the long run because it would destroy the sport.
The draft, salary caps, limits on free agency make the product on the field more competitive.

 

[Tunescribe]

Pro sports were dominated by the teams with the most money and the poorer ones sucked

Isn't that still mostly the case with MLB?

 

[Ring 6]

Isn't that still mostly the case with MLB?

No. Many small markets teams have been competitive lately. But if you did away with the draft, limitations on free agency and the luxury tax they wouldn’t stand a chance.
And if they added a salary cap the problem would mostly go away.

 

[Froob]

It won’t happen. Many of the players won’t have enough saved up to withstand a year without pay. They’ll get bent over the bargaining table again.

Should have locked the thread after this post.

 

[Froob]

Players need guaranteed money, opt-outs, protection against Franchise Tags and no trade clauses for starters. Teams have way to much power and the life expectancy of an NFL player is very low.

Won’t happen. They dug themselves into too big of a hole. Players have very little to leverage.

 

[billdog3484]

they did this last time. didnt work. mid to back end players dont make enough and/or arent smart enough or disciplined enough to save. additionally, most mid to back end players have a 2-4 year shelf life in this league, so why would they sacrifice giving up a year or more?

 

[XLIX]

A couple of points:
1. NO one making a half million or more is paying 33% of his income in taxes. THAT's what CPA's are for. Back when he was Governor of MA, Mitt Romney's released his tax returns which showed MILLIONS in income (I forgot the exact number, but I didn't forget this one. By the time he all his "deductions" were done his effective tax rate was 14%.

What you need to realize is that not all types of income are taxed equally. Mitt Romney paid an effective 14% income tax because he makes his money via long term capital gains.

A pro athlete, however, makes his money via regular salary (wages). So yeah, unless they are cheating on their tax return, it is perfectly reasonable to assume they are paying roughly 33% in federal and state taxes. Actually, the 33% number would be a very low guess since most of their income would be taxed at the highest rates and federal taxes alone would be greater than 33%, not to mention the additional 5% to 10% they'd pay if they lived in MA, NY or CA. Then they also have to pay state taxes to states where they play their road games. All of a sudden, the effective tax rate can creep awfully close to 50%....

Sorry but CPA's are not magicians that can concoct millions of dollars worth of deductions out of thin air for no reason at all.