We Are TWO Players Away - Overpay In Trades For QB and WR.

[203Pat]

At one point, some of those guys were considered among the best. Houston in particular. There are only 10-15 who get 10+ sacks every year. To act like this a common thing is absurd. Most NFL teams did not have a guy like that last year.

There were 19 guys with 10+ sacks last year and another 5 with 9.5. That’s well over half the league so, yes, lots of teams have guys that are in the 10 sack range.

 

[Chevy]

These are good points. I just don't think Bill is up to the job - the GM component - at this point in his career. I was a couple of years older than Bill when I retired - 74. I could have stayed as long as I wanted, but it was honorable and fulfilling work I wanted to do well, and I could sense I was beginning to cut a few corners, so I left. That's what old guys are suppoosed to do. My replacement, whom I had hired ten years before, is doing great. That's how it works.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - BB is known for game planning to his players' strengths. If this is true, and I believe it is, then he should have no problem with some one else buying the groceries. He can dictate certain traits - effort, versatility, etc. - but a better talent/draft guy is needed.

If he can do that then he could surpass Shula by a very decent, if not large, margin. I think he could coach another 6 years at a high level. HE wouldn't even have to give up the GM title, just break out the personnel side.

 

[upstater1]

That’s well over half the league so, yes, lots of teams have guys that are in the 10 sack range.

WRONG: You originally said "teams." Several of those guys were on the same team.

My stat is correct: less than half of NFL teams have a 10+ guy.

Uche was at 11.5

 

[upstater1]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - BB is known for game planning to his players' strengths. If this is true, and I believe it is, then he should have no problem with some one else buying the groceries. He can dictate certain traits - effort, versatility, etc. - but a better talent/draft guy is needed.

If he can do that then he could surpass Shula by a very decent, if not large, margin. I think he could coach another 6 years at a high level. HE wouldn't even have to give up the GM title, just break out the personnel side.

This is already what is happening now with Groh and Wolf. Outside of Kyle Dugger and Jake Andrews, I can't think of any other recent players who Belichick scouted himself.

 

[Chevy]

This is already what is happening now with Groh and Wolf. Outside of Kyle Dugger and Jake Andrews, I can't think of any other recent players who Belichick scouted himself.

I am not so sure that's the full tale. I think BB ordered the board, heavy on D. He needs to step away from all of that. Individual player veto, maybe, if he really dislikes something about them. But for the most part the veto items should be obvious to all.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

This should be the absurdity thread now, from why didn't we trade for WRs who didn't want to come here and who got the top WR contracts from the teams they didn't want to go to, to should've traded for Old Man Stafford when the team was in the middle of rebuilding, after just letting BRADY! leave, to now criticism of how much Mac jones is getting paid when his salary is locked and slotted by the draft process!!!

The absurdity of the Belichick haters is well beyond what I would have imagined.

With Stafford we probably make the playoffs that season if we took him instead of Cam. With Cam we won like 7 games lol

 

[mike_usagisan]

I am not so sure that's the full tale. I think BB ordered the board, heavy on D. He needs to step away from all of that. Individual player veto, maybe, if he really dislikes something about them. But for the most part the veto items should be obvious to all.

Dunno. I think both Gonzo and White were absolute steals where we got them. I don't think that was ordering the board heavy on D, it's just they were significantly better players than we could have gotten on offense.

I think one problem, and it's been mentioned here a number of times, is we don't draft WRs enough or high enough. We should be drafting at least one WR every year and should be around 3rd or 4th round or higher. There's something to be said for us not being able to scout WRs well, but there's also something to be said that if you don't try and try often, you're not going to do well at them either. Look at how we do QBs, taking one almost every draft. And we develop QBs pretty well. We need the same mentality for WRs.

 

[Wozzy]

Add better QB play and this is a playoff team. It doesn’t have to be amazing QB play either. Engineer first downs and don’t turn the ball over.

It would help to get some CB’s back healthy as well.

 

[upstater1]

I am not so sure that's the full tale. I think BB ordered the board, heavy on D. He needs to step away from all of that. Individual player veto, maybe, if he really dislikes something about them. But for the most part the veto items should be obvious to all.

I don't buy this.

Gonzalez was as highly ranked as top 5 by many.

Almost none of the mock drafts had him falling to us.

And Keion White was considered a 1st rounder by many.

This isn't ordering the board.

In fact, with a higher pick, Belichick might've taken the OT from Northwestern Skowronski.

Same thing with Keion White. He was a gift.

The Patriots are on record as trying to trade back in the 3rd because of poor value, but everyone else had the same take. No one wanted to trade, so they reached. After that the next 6 picks were all offense.

 

[upstater1]

With Stafford we probably make the playoffs that season if we took him instead of Cam. With Cam we won like 7 games lol

You have your seasons totally wrong. These aren't the same 2 seasons. Cam was a year earlier than the Stafford trade.

You 2 are the only 2 people here criticizing Belichick for not trading for Stafford. Never mind the fact we didn't even have the chips to trade for him. We didn't have a Goff to give Detroit.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

You have your seasons totally wrong. These aren't the same 2 seasons. Cam was a year earlier than the Stafford trade.

You 2 are the only 2 people here criticizing Belichick for not trading for Stafford. Never mind the fact we didn't even have the chips to trade for him. We didn't have a Goff to give Detroit.

I just got confused my bad… not criticizing bill for it. I’m just saying Newton was so bad that an average qb probably gets us 10 wins that season

 

[upstater1]

I just got confused my bad… not criticizing bill for it. I’m just saying Newton was so bad that an average qb probably gets us 10 wins that season

Newton was awful. Worse than Mac. And I have Mac worse than Baker Mayfield. But we bit the bullet that year. Newton got paid $1m. WE took all the dead money of the previous years and packed into 2020. Which was also the Covid year.

Basically the whole team changed. There are 54 new players on the roster now.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Newton was awful. Worse than Mac. And I have Mac worse than Baker Mayfield. But we bit the bullet that year. Newton got paid $1m. WE took all the dead money of the previous years and packed into 2020. Which was also the Covid year.

Basically the whole team changed. There are 54 new players on the roster now.

it’s too bad Newton was awful at that point. if we had newton against the Seahawks that season all season we are probably a 11 win team. it doesn’t matter now though

 

[captain stone]

We are two players away: QB and WR.
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Should we spend a couple of top picks and secure a couple of players?

If you think that there are NO players available at any price, so be it. CLEARLY, the management should be fired is they can't the players to improve this team.

I understand that for some of you, all the matters is the Super Bowl, and the playoffs aren't even worth trying for, so we should trade our players and wait until next year. That is NOT the New England Patriots. You will be disappointed as long as Kraft owns the team, because that will never be his approach.
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I'm NOT suggesting which player should be traded for. That depends on availability and price.

What I am suggesting is that we COULD greatly improve the team with a major trade or two. Obviously, we also have the minor trades which are long shots. Sometimes, we get a player like Lowe who can contribute (I see a RB addition in our future).

Worst anal-ysis of the season.

 

[mgteich]

Worst anal-ysis of the season.

I'm fine withe folks thinking that 2 players is nowhere near enough.

I stand by my statement that thar to say that our Defense is almost as much a concern as our Offense is Indeed the worst analysis of the season.
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By this week or next, Jackson and Jonathan Jones will be playing. Perhaps, we will get help from Jack Jones soon, and perhaps even Flowers. Peppers and White have been lights out. Tavai, Bentley and Jenning have ben fine.

We are certainly a top 10 Defense.

But YOU think that they are almost in the state of our Offense.
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CHOOSE
1) Our Defense is not top 10, really almost as bad as our Offense.
2) Our Offense is almost top 10.

IMO, if we had an average (top 16) Offense, we would be solid competitors for the playoffs. Maybe we will have that if the OL gels over the next few weeks, perhaps including an addition. Of course, this has to happen before the hole is too deep to evercome.

 

[condon84]

We need a real QB, one who has poise and pocket awereness, to legitimately asses our OL and skill players.

He's not helping our OL by scrambling out of the pocket when he doesn't need to, or inability to step up into the pocket.

And we can't assess our skill players appropriately if the QB is floating ducks, throwing inaccurate passes, or not seeing open receivers.

 

[203Pat]

I'm fine withe folks thinking that 2 players is nowhere near enough.

I stand by my statement that thar to say that our Defense is almost as much a concern as our Offense is Indeed the worst analysis of the season.
==========================
By this week or next, Jackson and Jonathan Jones will be playing. Perhaps, we will get help from Jack Jones soon, and perhaps even Flowers. Peppers and White have been lights out. Tavai, Bentley and Jenning have ben fine.

We are certainly a top 10 Defense.

But YOU think that they are almost in the state of our Offense.
===========
CHOOSE
1) Our Defense is not top 10, really almost as bad as our Offense.
2) Our Offense is almost top 10.

IMO, if we had an average (top 16) Offense, we would be solid competitors for the playoffs. Maybe we will have that if the OL gels over the next few weeks, perhaps including an addition. Of course, this has to happen before the hole is too deep to evercome.

If Flowers plays significant snaps over Keion White I will be annoyed.

 

[mgteich]

We need a real QB, one who has poise and pocket awereness, to legitimately asses our OL and skill players.

He's not helping our OL by scrambling out of the pocket when he doesn't need to, or inability to step up into the pocket.

And we can't assess our skill players appropriately if the QB is floating ducks, throwing inaccurate passes, or not seeing open receivers.

Agreed.

So, I would cut players who might contribute in the future, even if we add a WR.

At the moment, it is very difficult to evaluate the potential of the Offense since we see weaknesses everywhere.

STEP ONE
Have a healthy OL that plays together 3 weeks in a row. BTW, this would likely mean that we would have only 8-9 OL's on the 53.

STEP TWO
Establish our running game, perhaps also adding a RB (Rham and Zeke and pray for rain (and no injuries) is NOT enough for the season.

STEP THREE
Evaluate our WR's, perhaps after adding one, perhaps not. This may be very difficult if QB play isn't much, much better. Even if results aren't there, coaches should be able to evaluate the receivers.

STEP FOUR
Evaluate our QB situation.

 

[mgteich]

If Flowers plays significant snaps over Keion White I will be annoyed.

I'd be upset also. That would mean that the quality of White's play has declined.

With Judon out, it would be good to see contributions from Flowers, IN ADDITION to continued great play from White.