Next Stop, the Underwear Olympics

[mayoclinic]

I don't want to return to a two gap 3-4, at all. If they wanted to go to more of a one gapping pressure 3-4 I could be convinced but what would be their 3-4 OLB's that are on the roster in Jones and Nink don't fit the mold.

This. 10 char.

 

[manxman2601]

So you don't want Donald?

I don't want to return to a two gap 3-4, at all. If they wanted to go to more of a one gapping pressure 3-4 I could be convinced but what would be their 3-4 OLB's that are on the roster in Jones and Nink don't fit the mold.

I think Jones fits the mould and Jamie Collins would be your other OLB.

I want the ability to be versatile. It's not as straightforward as returning to a two gap 3-4. It could be that, you could move JOnes up to 3-4 DE and go one gap or play a 4-3 depending on the opposition, game circumstance etc. but with a 6-4 plus DE/DT you have the capability of being versatile. Draft a Jernigan, Reid type and you are strictly limited to a 4-3. This is why I think BB doesn't draft those types because he wants that versatility.

 

[mayoclinic]

Kouandjio's 40-time on bad knees was abysmal, but his 1.79 10-yard split was slightly better than average (and the same as Logan Mankins' from 2005) - better than that of Jake Mewhort, Billy Turner, Ja'Wuan James, Cameron Fleming or Morgan Moses - and his 7.71 3-cone wasn't far off of Zack Martin (7.65) and better than Mewhort (7.79), David Yankey (7.81), Brandon Thomas (8.13) and Seantrel Henderson (8.15). His 10-yard split was better than DJ Fluker's last year (1.90). His 20 yard shuttle was also better than Fluker's (4.80 vs. 5.00). On bum knees. He won't turn 21 until July. Like Fluker he's a gorilla with very long arms (35 5/8", vs. 36 3/4" for Fluker).

Kouandjio's tape suggests a 1st/2nd round pick. His medical report is scary, but it needs to be examined closely. He didn't miss any playing time, and he could improve significantly with some rest. We'll see how far he free falls, but he's much more interesting to me now than he was 2 days ago.

Kouandjio seems to have a great attitude about his disastrous Combine:

When his next chance will come has never been more unclear. The Cameroon native, who came to America at age four with his family, said he's not concerned about losing money -- a reality if his knee causes the expected precipitous drop on draft boards.

"It's a blessing," Kouandjio said. "I don't see making money giving me happiness. I think it's going to help me be a lot more comfortable, but it's not going to make me happy. I want to win. I want to go to an NFL team and win some championships. Out of the three years that I played at Alabama in college, I won two national championships. I want to continue doing that. I want to be successful."

2014 NFL combine: Bama OT Kouandjio falls after failed physical - CBSSports.com

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I don't think he's much of a project. He played safety for 2 years, and he can step right in to a CB rotation. I'm comfortable with him as "depth" for 1 year, becoming a starter in his 2nd year. That's a day 2 value, to me.

I wouldn't want to see any snaps at CB. I think you can get safer players at 102 and get Exum later.

So you don't want Donald?

I don't want to return to a two gap 3-4, at all. If they wanted to go to more of a one gapping pressure 3-4 I could be convinced but what would be their 3-4 OLB's that are on the roster in Jones and Nink don't fit the mold.

What?

 

[mayoclinic]

I think Jones fits the mould and Jamie Collins would be your other OLB.

I want the ability to be versatile. It's not as straightforward as returning to a two gap 3-4. It could be that, you could move JOnes up to 3-4 DE and go one gap or play a 4-3 depending on the opposition, game circumstance etc. but with a 6-4 plus DE/DT you have the capability of being versatile. Draft a Jernigan, Reid type and you are strictly limited to a 4-3. This is why I think BB doesn't draft those types because he wants that versatility.

Versatility is nice, but it comes in different shapes and sizes. Aaron Donald lined up all over the line as well in college. He's not a classic 2-gapping 3-4 DE, but BB used Wilfork at 3-4 DE in 2009.

I'm personally willing to give up a little versatility in favor of more speed and disruption. I'm not sure BB is, but I personally think the tradeoff would be worth it.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Given the current situation, you're looking at Mayo/Hightower as the other LBs and some combination of Kelly/Wilfork/Silaga along the line.




Jones isn't good taking on the run.
Collins is a disaster taking on the run.
Ninkovich can set the edge, but he can't really hold up taking on the run.
Armstead hasn't played in so long that counting on him is folly, especially since he's never done a thing in the NFL.
Gregory and McCourty are not a run tackling safety pair.

BB would basically be hoping that Hightower/Mayo/DT2 would be enough to make up for about 6 weak run defenders who can chase but can't really defend head on.

Premature to call Collins a disaster taking on the run. How much playing time have we actually seen?

I don't care if this team is number 1 against stopping the run. I'd be ok if they were middle of the pack as long as they can stop the pass consistently. And yes I'd be willing to sacrifice for a player like Donald who hasn't shown he can't stop the run btw. If it was 3rd and 1 to 5 then I would bring in another big run stopper and pull Donald out if that's the case. But 1st and 10, 2nd or 3rd and long I absolutely want someone like that on our team. This 3rd down defense is what we should be worried about. Not about stopping the run where the team has shown to be resilient except for that string of games during the middle of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Premature to call Collins a disaster taking on the run. How much playing time have we actually seen?

No, it's not. We're talking about where these players are now, not where they might be in a few years, or with extra weight, or anything else.

I don't care if this team is number 1 against stopping the run. I'd be ok if they were middle of the pack as long as they can stop the pass consistently. And yes I'd be willing to sacrifice for a player like Donald who hasn't shown he can't stop the run btw. If it was 3rd and 1 to 5 then I would bring in another big run stopper and pull Donald out if that's the case. But 1st and 10, 2nd or 3rd and long I absolutely want someone like that on our team. This 3rd down defense is what we should be worried about. Not about stopping the run where the team has shown to be resilient except for that string of games during the middle of the season.

That's a bottom tier front 7 against the run. It's not top 10. It's not even mediocre.

And Donald has shown that he can't stop the run. The question is how much that weakness can be ameliorated, which is the same as with Collins.

 

[everlong]

I think Jones fits the mould and Jamie Collins would be your other OLB.

I want the ability to be versatile. It's not as straightforward as returning to a two gap 3-4. It could be that, you could move JOnes up to 3-4 DE and go one gap or play a 4-3 depending on the opposition, game circumstance etc. but with a 6-4 plus DE/DT you have the capability of being versatile. Draft a Jernigan, Reid type and you are strictly limited to a 4-3. This is why I think BB doesn't draft those types because he wants that versatility.

Maybe but we haven't seen Collins set the edge.

To steal your line.........yes I know you hate Jernigan.

I don't think Jones as the size play DE in a 3-4.

 

[mayoclinic]

Premature to call Collins a disaster taking on the run. How much playing time have we actually seen?

I don't care if this team is number 1 against stopping the run. I'd be ok if they were middle of the pack as long as they can stop the pass consistently. And yes I'd be willing to sacrifice for a player like Donald who hasn't shown he can't stop the run btw. If it was 3rd and 1 to 5 then I would bring in another big run stopper and pull Donald out if that's the case. But 1st and 10, 2nd or 3rd and long I absolutely want someone like that on our team. This 3rd down defense is what we should be worried about. Not about stopping the run where the team has shown to be resilient except for that string of games during the middle of the season.

I'm a lot more comfortable with Aaron Donald against the run than Joe Vellano, that's for sure.

Donald is deceptively strong, and he disrupts running plays because of his penetrating ability. There is more than 1 way to stop the run, and an opposing jersey knifing into the backfield can throw a running play off as much as having a wall of defenders at the LOS. Cincinnati's had a fairly decent run defense despite Geno Atkins being in the middle.

 

[manxman2601]

Maybe but we haven't seen Collins set the edge.

To steal your line.........yes I know you hate Jernigan.

I don't think Jones as the size play DE in a 3-4.

It was a line I deleted almost immediately by the way. And the whole point of including Reid was to make clear I was talking about a type rather than a specific player which I thought I made pretty clear.

And if you're not happy with Collins, then Ninkovich. Or Hightower. Or a draft pick. It's not a lack of OLB's that would stop us from playing 3-4. And as for Chandler Jones, he played some 5 tech this year. I wasn't talking about him playing the position on a permanent basis, just as a schematic variation.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Versatility is nice, but it comes in different shapes and sizes. Aaron Donald lined up all over the line as well in college. He's not a classic 2-gapping 3-4 DE, but BB used Wilfork at 3-4 DE in 2009.

Because he had to.

I don't think Jones as the size play DE in a 3-4.

In limited 1-gap snaps he does. It's the same as when he plays DT.

 

[Patriot Missile]

No, it's not. We're talking about where these players are now, not where they might be in a few years, or with extra weight, or anything else.



That's a bottom tier front 7 against the run. It's not top 10. It's not even mediocre.

And Donald has shown that he can't stop the run. The question is how much that weakness can be ameliorated, which is the same as with Collins.

Sorry, I'll just have to disagree and be on my way. You can't have 7 pro bowlers on your front 7 overnight. What I saw was an improvement in the run game towards the end of the season and that was without Wilfork, Mayo and Kelly in there. I don't see Jones and Ninkovich as poor run defenders nor are they great.

What film is this you have that Donald can't stop the run because I'd like to see it. He did stop it in college, now it's up to the scouts to determine whether he can do it at the next level at his size.

Still don't agree on the disaster label on Collins either. I've seen a lot worse. Seemed to be ok in the Indy game.

 

[everlong]

It was a line I deleted almost immediately by the way. And the whole point of including Reid was to make clear I was talking about a type rather than a specific player which I thought I made pretty clear.

And if you're not happy with Collins, then Ninkovich. Or Hightower. Or a draft pick. It's not a lack of OLB's that would stop us from playing 3-4. And as for Chandler Jones, he played some 5 tech this year. I wasn't talking about him playing the position on a permanent basis, just as a schematic variation.

I didn't realize you deleted it. Yes I know. We just philosophically dsagree on the direction of the defense.

It's not that I'm not happy with Collins there it's that we haven't seen it. Yes situationally I can see there being value there.

I think you go to a 4-3 sub with a combination of Chris and Chandler Jones, Armstead, Kelly and Tuitt playing your interior pass rushing positions and you end up having games like the Denver playoff game where there's zero interior pressure. Sure you get scheme versatility with them but you also get limited pass rush.

I'm realy interested to see Donald's 3-cone to see if he has the flexibility to play a 4-3 end on rushing downs and move inside on passing downs as you had suggested.

 

[mayoclinic]

Allen Robinson running the gauntlet - lot of body catching, similar to my concern about him on film.

 

[everlong]

Interesting to note with Brandon Coleman throwing up a 4.5 today at 6'6" Rang prior to that time being run had him mocked to the Pats in the first round and Brugler had him in the first to the 49ers. Given that time after I wonder if he's moved into a top 40 lock.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm really interested to see Donald's 3-cone to see if he has the flexibility to play a 4-3 end on rushing downs and move inside on passing downs as you had suggested.

This would be very interesting.

 

[manxman2601]

I didn't realize you deleted it. Yes I know. We just philosophically dsagree on the direction of the defense.

It's not that I'm not happy with Collins there it's that we haven't seen it. Yes situationally I can see there being value there.

I think you go to a 4-3 sub with a combination of Chris and Chandler Jones, Armstead, Kelly and Tuitt playing your interior pass rushing positions and you end up having games like the Denver playoff game where there's zero interior pressure. Sure you get scheme versatility with them but you also get limited pass rush.

I'm realy interested to see Donald's 3-cone to see if he has the flexibility to play a 4-3 end on rushing downs and move inside on passing downs as you had suggested.

Tuitt probably had more career sacks than any DT in this draft save Donald and Will Sutton (educated guess there) and Kelly had 2.5 sacks before his injury. I don't agree with you at all that this is necessarily less disruptive than having midget DTs.

And I agree that Donald's numbers will be interesting. The reason I like him over other 3-tech types is that his explosion might just justify him being used differently. Regardless of my defensive philosophy, I will celebrate a Donald pick, have no fear.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Jeff Janis just made cash homie.

OK, might as well say it. . . .

Want.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Allen Robinson running the gauntlet - lot of body catching, similar to my concern about him on film.

1 is a lot?

Anyway, you know you're confident on a player when you want him to do bad so he falls.

 

[kennyb]

Interesting to note with Brandon Coleman throwing up a 4.5 today at 6'6" Rang prior to that time being run had him mocked to the Pats in the first round and Brugler had him in the first to the 49ers. Given that time after I wonder if he's moved into a top 40 lock.

Hands of stone. More like a fourth rounder.