Next Stop, the Underwear Olympics

[mayoclinic]

I just thought I'd toss out a couple of scenarios, to see where people stood:

Draft Tuitt
Sign Tyson Jackson


That gives the Patriots 3-4 personnel, but requires Chandler to play some OLB in base.




Any takers?


Draft Nix
Sign Tyson Jackson

That gives the Patriots mostly 3-4 personnel, but requires the Patriots to find a way to protect Chandler on 1st down.


Any takers?

No and no. I don't really want the Pats to go back to a 3-4, and don't see them doing it.

 

[manxman2601]

I just thought I'd toss out a couple of scenarios, to see where people stood:

Draft Tuitt
Sign Tyson Jackson


That gives the Patriots 3-4 personnel, but requires Chandler to play some OLB in base.




Any takers?


Draft Nix
Sign Tyson Jackson

That gives the Patriots mostly 3-4 personnel, but requires the Patriots to find a way to protect Chandler on 1st down.


Any takers?

I can't comment on Jackson but I'm a Tuitt fan so any scenario that starts "draft Tuitt" is fine by me. I do firmly believe that BB is more likely to go with a 3-4 type like Tuitt or Hageman than he is a 6'2" 3-tech type like Donald or Jernigan.

 

[Kontradiction]

Who do you prefer? I know you like Pryor at safety with our first pick but that's not happening now unfortunately....are you still thinking defense with the first pick and going tight end later?

Depends on where ASJ is slotted after the combine. If he's going in the first then I think it'll probably be between TE and DT.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I can't comment on Jackson but I'm a Tuitt fan so any scenario that starts "draft Tuitt" is fine by me. I do firmly believe that BB is more likely to go with a 3-4 type like Tuitt or Hageman than he is a 6'2" 3-tech type like Donald or Jernigan.

I'm fine with any of those 4. I think all can help this team big time.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can't comment on Jackson but I'm a Tuitt fan so any scenario that starts "draft Tuitt" is fine by me. I do firmly believe that BB is more likely to go with a 3-4 type like Tuitt or Hageman than he is a 6'2" 3-tech type like Donald or Jernigan.

Donald against the run worries me.

 

[Husse]

More gossip from Tony Pauline:

...

Have we come to the point where we are going to bring in criminal profilers to help evaluate the prospects...?

 

[manxman2601]

Donald against the run worries me.

Rightly. But he is so explosive, he'll make plays in the run game too.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Dunlap without question. He has the versatility to play outside in a 3-4 at times, or to kick inside on passing downs, and he'd make an ideal strongside 4-3 DE. But I'd be happy with either.

I can't see it happening, BTW. According to overthecap.com, cutting Dunlap saves only $2.2M in cap space for the Bungles, and results in a $6.4M dead money hit.

I have to respectfully disagree, I would take Johnson over Dunlap any day of the week. I actually think he is more athletic and more versatile than Dunlap and a better run defender (was graded as the 2nd best run defending DE in the NFL last season). He is also an excellent teammate and a leader of that Bengals defense. I think Cincinnati agrees because they originally offered Johnson an extension last year and he turned it down, that is when they went to Dunlap and offered it to him instead.

Looking at Cinci's cap situation I think the only way this report is true is if they do want to keep Johnson over Dunlap. They have a lot of cap space to re-sign their guys and the assumption was they didn't want to pay both because of the amount of resources spent at the position, not because of lack of cap space. For this to make sense to me I think they would only cut Dunlap in order to re-sign Johnson.

I just thought I'd toss out a couple of scenarios, to see where people stood:

Draft Tuitt
Sign Tyson Jackson


That gives the Patriots 3-4 personnel, but requires Chandler to play some OLB in base.

I would actually prefer to see Chandler Jones bulk up a bit and play 3-4 DE in that situation. I actually think long term that will be his best position as he continues to add bulk. I don't see Jones as an elite edge guy, but where he wins is with his technique and violent hands rather than explosion around the edge. To me he would be ideally suited to the 5-tech DE position if he were able to add bulk because it would fit his skill set fantastically well.

 

[Deus Irae]

Rightly. But he is so explosive, he'll make plays in the run game too.

I just don't think we need to see

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Rob Ninkovich
Jamie Collins


as 4 of the front 7 players trying to stop the run. BB's a hell of a coach, but that's a front 7 begging to be run over.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would actually prefer to see Chandler Jones bulk up a bit and play 3-4 DE in that situation. I actually think long term that will be his best position as he continues to add bulk. I don't see Jones as an elite edge guy, but where he wins is with his technique and violent hands rather than explosion around the edge. To me he would be ideally suited to the 5-tech DE position if he were able to add bulk because it would fit his skill set fantastically well.

I initially hoped that Jones would be converted into the 3-4. The Patriots personnel was basically all 3-4 except for the DEs. Even today, it's a better 3-4 group than a 4-3 group, IMO, yet the team has stayed 4-3. To me, the only way that's made sense is because the team doesn't think Chandler has the ability to get enough lead in his ass to anchor a 3-4 line without extra protection rolled to his side somehow.

 

[manxman2601]

I just don't think we need to see

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Rob Ninkovich
Jamie Collins


as 4 of the front 7 players trying to stop the run. BB's a hell of a coach, but that's a front 7 begging to be run over.

I'd rather we were better able to play the pass than the run. And don't forget, you could also have Hightower, Mayo, Siliga playing with the four you listed giving some better balance against the run. I understand the concern and I think BB will agree with you (I do too to a degree), but Donald is a potential game changer on the DL.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I would actually prefer to see Chandler Jones bulk up a bit and play 3-4 DE in that situation. I actually think long term that will be his best position as he continues to add bulk. I don't see Jones as an elite edge guy, but where he wins is with his technique and violent hands rather than explosion around the edge. To me he would be ideally suited to the 5-tech DE position if he were able to add bulk because it would fit his skill set fantastically well.

I agree with Johnson over Dunlap.

I do see Jones as a potential elite DE. In only his 2nd season he cleared 10 sacks and held up against the run. He is only going to get better and isn't close to his prime. Problem to me was depth and no other threats to aid him. He played over 90% of the snaps and you just can't be as effective late in the game on that pace. Get him a inside presence who can penetrate and some rotational pass rushers who can do it effectively and I think elite is right around the corner for Jones.

 

[everlong]

I initially hoped that Jones would be converted into the 3-4. The Patriots personnel was basically all 3-4 except for the DEs. Even today, it's a better 3-4 group than a 4-3 group, IMO, yet the team has stayed 4-3. To me, the only way that's made sense is because the team doesn't think Chandler has the ability to get enough lead in his ass to anchor a 3-4 line without extra protection rolled to his side somehow.

Who are your 3-4 DE's? There's nobody on the roster with the 6'5" 315 size Bill likes for that role.

 

[manxman2601]

Who are your 3-4 DE's? There's nobody on the roster with the 6'5" 315 size Bill likes for that role.

What about Kelly and Armstead?

 

[mayoclinic]

I just don't think we need to see

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Rob Ninkovich
Jamie Collins

as 4 of the front 7 players trying to stop the run. BB's a hell of a coach, but that's a front 7 begging to be run over.

The only time I think we'd see that kind of line is on 3rd and 15, and I could live with it against the run then.

 

[mayoclinic]

Logan Thomas with an unofficial 4.6 40, 1.62 10 yard split. 2nd run 4.57. TE, please.

 

[manxman2601]

Logan Thomas with an unofficial 4.6 40. TE.

Lyerla, Thomas and Henderson all in the 6th round is my guilty pleasure.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I just don't think we need to see

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Rob Ninkovich
Jamie Collins


as 4 of the front 7 players trying to stop the run. BB's a hell of a coach, but that's a front 7 begging to be run over.

Who are the other 3 in that rotation? The problem with the run was never an outside the tackles issue. They were gutting the Pats right up the middle when wilfork and Kelly went down. Hopefully Wilfork, Kelly and Armstead come back at full strength and I think that remedies your worries. Having Donald in there in passing situations is ideal to me and it's not like he has proven to be unreliable vs the run. Just not great. That is the kind of depth I want on this team.

 

[manxman2601]

Logan Thomas with an unofficial 4.6 40, 1.62 10 yard split. TE, please.

That's Tyler Eifert, Zach Ertz numbers. In other words, first round numbers.

 

[mayoclinic]

That's Tyler Eifert, Zach Ertz numbers. In other words, first round numbers.

I know. And he was originally recruited to Virginia Tech as a TE, so it's not like he's a pure conversion project.

4.57 2nd run, BTW.