News regarding extensions for Pats Players

[Clonamery]

In Madden I signed Collins to a 7 year 78 Million dollar extension.
Plan to trade Sheard or offer him 5 Million avg a year in Madden he wants 11 Mill a year

Thanks, can you forward that to BB, it might save him some time in the negotiations.

 

[mgteich]

Let's call it $60M with an Amendola restructure or replacement. That doesn't count the rollover from 2016.

How many of Hightower, Collins, Sheard, Ryan, and Harmon COULD be signed. Well, all COULD be re-signed. How many does Belichick WANT to sign at what it would take. That is the operative question.

I suspect that Belichick will be fine with accepting a 1st for Butler, rather than offering him a huge amount for 2017. He is an RFA after all.

A LOT OF CAP SPACE FOR 4 PLAYERS
How much should be allocated to top defensive players? How much should we allow for the top 10 defensive players? The top 10 offensive players?
=============
2017
We 4 players on OFFENSE who will be count for more than $5M plus Bennett likely makes 5 (instead of Amendola).

We have ONE player on DEFENSE who count for more that $5M, McCourty.
=======
BOTTOM LINE
Is it reasonable to have 5 defensive players counting more the $5M a year against the cap? This year we had 4 that counted more than $4.5M,

There may be a few more restructures, cuts and the cap $ going up so in theory it could go higher than $57m.

The question is it enough to sign High, Collins, Malcolm and Sheard?

I see Ryan and Harmon almost good as gone.

Thats a lot of guaranteed money and cap space used up by 4 players.

New England Patriots 2017 Salary Cap

 

[Jimke]

I will start to panic if December comes and goes with no extensions. At this point, I would bet
that the Patriots will franchise one player (Hightower?) and give Butler a first round RFA tender.
Once the legal cheating begins, the odds of the Patriots re-signing players greatly decreases.

 

[mgteich]

(Hightower?) and give Butler a first round RFA tender.
Once the legal cheating begins, the odds of the Patriots re-signing players greatly decreases.

IMHO, Bennett would be the franchised player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IMHO, Bennett would be the franchised player.

In 2016 the tag # for TE was $9m. That ain't happening for a 30 year old player.

IMO the tag will go to High or Collins.

 

[Dorito Dink]

In Madden I signed Collins to a 7 year 78 Million dollar extension.
Plan to trade Sheard or offer him 5 Million avg a year in Madden he wants 11 Mill a year

Can someone screenshot this and send to BB's MyFace page?

 

[pazrul72]

Bill has proved he knows better then all of us what he is doing and that his approach works so I don't worry too much about what will or won't happen in the future. However that would lead to a pretty dull message board so here is what I would do.

High is priority number one, not so much because he is the most talented but because I get the impression he wants to be here, he wants to be the defensive captain, and will take a respectable offer as long as he isn't insulted with an insane low ball number. Something like 4 for 32 and I would be willing to go up to 35...or add a year for a lower amount. More then that I let him walk because while his leadership is excellent and he does have rare skills he gets hurt a ton and is usually out 2-4 games a year.

Butler is priority 2 again not so much because he is the best defender on the field but I feel like he might take less long term cash for more upfront security and he plays one of the hardest positions to find in football. I would offer 5 for 55 with a signing bonus of 15 and would be willing to go up to 57.5 if he came back with an offer of 60 but would stay for a little less. While I do believe Butler has proven he is a number one corner I do not see the shut down top 5 corner you break the bank for. He's good, very good even but not elite.

Collins is the hardest to predict because I am not in the room with him looking him in the eyes to see what he wants. While I think he enjoys winning I think he would enjoy getting paid to play somewhere warm too. I think 4 for 40 is as high as I would go though I would add up to 2 years at 10 per if he was willing. He is the best defender on the field with insane measurables but he is not consistent enough IMO to make him the highest paid defender. I see some team with a ton of cap room in the south making him an offer he can't refuse like 5 for 75. Too rich for my blood and I will be sad to see him go.

Bennett has been everything advertised and nothing he was feared to be. He seems to love it here and values the top notch coaching and organization. I think he takes a little less to enjoy playing football. He has to make less then Gronk but I am under the impression that is 100% ok with him. My offer would be 3 for 18 with 8 of that in the last year so I can cut him if his play declines. So his cap hit would look like 4, 6, 8 with all of his first year and half of his second gaurenteed.

Sheard would be next on my list and I would give him a 2-3 year 5-7 million a year deal. He has not been as explosive as I expected this year and I think the jump to full time everydown defender has taken a bit of a toll. He's good and would be missed but not someone you invest major money into.

Ryan is as good as gone in my mind but solid #2 corners are not easy to find so I would see if a 3 for 15 would get it done fully expecting it won't. Solid starter money but no where near what I think he will get on the open market.

Harmon is in the same boat as Ryan but I love his play so 3 for 10 is really the most I can justify for a backup safety when I am already paying big bucks to McCourty.

 

[luuked]

I see Ryan and Harmon almost good as gone.

I know one regular live thread user who will be happy about it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let's call it $60M with an Amendola restructure or replacement. That doesn't count the rollover from 2016.

How many of Hightower, Collins, Sheard, Ryan, and Harmon COULD be signed. Well, all COULD be re-signed. How many does Belichick WANT to sign at what it would take. That is the operative question.

I suspect that Belichick will be fine with accepting a 1st for Butler, rather than offering him a huge amount for 2017. He is an RFA after all.

A LOT OF CAP SPACE FOR 4 PLAYERS
How much should be allocated to top defensive players? How much should we allow for the top 10 defensive players? The top 10 offensive players?
=============
2017
We 4 players on OFFENSE who will be count for more than $5M plus Bennett likely makes 5 (instead of Amendola).

We have ONE player on DEFENSE who count for more that $5M, McCourty.
=======
BOTTOM LINE
Is it reasonable to have 5 defensive players counting more the $5M a year against the cap? This year we had 4 that counted more than $4.5M,

DMCs cap # jumps big time in 2017.

Top 10 LBs make $12.6m annually and ave $32m in guarantees. I consider High and Collins in that
bracket.

To 10 CBs are $12.6m annually and ave $33m in guarantees. Not sure Malcolm is in that class yet. Maybe top 15

Top 10 DEs ave $12.6m annually and $34.5m in guarantees. Sheard is fringe top 10. More like top 15 IMO.

Weird how the top 10 for the positions ave $12.6m

To your point, does BB view those players as top 10? Do other teams? What will the market dictate?

 

[DaBruinz]

I know one regular live thread user who will be happy about it.

There'd be more than one.. Deus and Marqui will both be tripping over eachother to be the first to show Ryan out the door,.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill has proved he knows better then all of us what he is doing and that his approach works so I don't worry too much about what will or won't happen in the future. However that would lead to a pretty dull message board so here is what I would do.

High is priority number one, not so much because he is the most talented but because I get the impression he wants to be here, he wants to be the defensive captain, and will take a respectable offer as long as he isn't insulted with an insane low ball number. Something like 4 for 32 and I would be willing to go up to 35...or add a year for a lower amount. More then that I let him walk because while his leadership is excellent and he does have rare skills he gets hurt a ton and is usually out 2-4 games a year.

Butler is priority 2 again not so much because he is the best defender on the field but I feel like he might take less long term cash for more upfront security and he plays one of the hardest positions to find in football. I would offer 5 for 55 with a signing bonus of 15 and would be willing to go up to 57.5 if he came back with an offer of 60 but would stay for a little less. While I do believe Butler has proven he is a number one corner I do not see the shut down top 5 corner you break the bank for. He's good, very good even but not elite.

Collins is the hardest to predict because I am not in the room with him looking him in the eyes to see what he wants. While I think he enjoys winning I think he would enjoy getting paid to play somewhere warm too. I think 4 for 40 is as high as I would go though I would add up to 2 years at 10 per if he was willing. He is the best defender on the field with insane measurables but he is not consistent enough IMO to make him the highest paid defender. I see some team with a ton of cap room in the south making him an offer he can't refuse like 5 for 75. Too rich for my blood and I will be sad to see him go.

Bennett has been everything advertised and nothing he was feared to be. He seems to love it here and values the top notch coaching and organization. I think he takes a little less to enjoy playing football. He has to make less then Gronk but I am under the impression that is 100% ok with him. My offer would be 3 for 18 with 8 of that in the last year so I can cut him if his play declines. So his cap hit would look like 4, 6, 8 with all of his first year and half of his second gaurenteed.

Sheard would be next on my list and I would give him a 2-3 year 5-7 million a year deal. He has not been as explosive as I expected this year and I think the jump to full time everydown defender has taken a bit of a toll. He's good and would be missed but not someone you invest major money into.

Ryan is as good as gone in my mind but solid #2 corners are not easy to find so I would see if a 3 for 15 would get it done fully expecting it won't. Solid starter money but no where near what I think he will get on the open market.

Harmon is in the same boat as Ryan but I love his play so 3 for 10 is really the most I can justify for a backup safety when I am already paying big bucks to McCourty.

While a solid #2, some team is going to pay Logan Ryan a top 15 CB deal.

Friggan 33 year old Tramon Williams recived a 3y/21m/$10m in guarantees. Insane.

Harmon might see 31 year old Eric Weddle $....4/26 $13m guarantees.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Message to Kraft:

Don't low ball Collins and Hightower. You paid Mayo who wasn't as good as either of them, you gave hernandez a record contact, mankins a record contract, and you gave McCourty a huge contract. PAY THEM!!

We need to take care of our own. OUR draft picks who become stars we need to retain them, its a big part of building our homegrown culture. We've paid our own guys in the past, do it again.

I agree unless Collins asks to be paid like Von Miller or something stupid like that.. obviously that cannot happen, but they could make them a top 5 at their position

 

[mgteich]

Harmon might see 31 year old Eric Weddle $....4/26 $13m guarantees.

hmmm

Belichick would sign that one. Let Miguel give you an acceptable structure.

 

[RobertWeathers]

hmmm

Belichick would sign that one. Let Miguel give you an acceptable structure.

Maybe. McCourty turns 30 next August and Harmon is 3.5 years younger.

Plus DMC has some big cap numbers coming up.

You never know....

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I am just curious as to how much these guys should be worth. I think hightower's very important. Might they have to overpay a guy like butler. Are they willing to sign some other free agents besides resigning our own guys?

Malcolm Butler:
Butler isn't going anywhere as a RFA unless a team is willing to give up a 1st rounder for him.. in which case, we can still match the offer... but as much as I love Butler, I'd get over him going to another team if we were getting a 1st round pick as compensation.

Logan Ryan:
I think Ryan is going to get paid Vernon Davis type money at the least and will most likely be gone
$10+ mill a year range

Martellus Bennett:
They could franchise Bennett and secure him for another year, but I'd save the tag for either Collins/Hightower if we can't get them locked up.. TE's are more reasonably priced, so I think we could try to negotiate with Bennett after he's already stated how much he loves it here and how he feels at home here.. thats huge, hes been to a lot of sucky teams and now he's playing with Brady and potentially competing for Super Bowls
6-7 mill a year range

Donte Hightower:
If I'm the front office and I feel that strongly about Hightower to give him McGinest's/Mayo's old locker, hes been voted a captain, is a rare athlete as far as size/strength/speed combination and plays at a very high level.. Then I'm getting that deal done in 2016 and making him one of the top paid at his position so that I can use the franchise tag if I have to on having Collins around for 1 more year, or at least to buy more time to get a deal done. If you let him hit FA, Jerry Jones or some other owner is going to fly him out on a private jet and offer him a superstar contract.. he will not be back if he tests FA
$12-13 mill a year range

Jamie Collins:
You might have to franchise tag Collins to ensure he's around for another year, or to try and negotiate a deal or trade him for some high compensation.. I just don't think you can let him test free agency, the market will blow the doors off with an offer
$14-15+ mill a year range

Jabaal Sheard:
I'd try to get Sheard done in 2016, but I don't think the market will blow the doors off with an offer for him so you could sign him back as a FA
$7-9 mill a year range

Sebastian Vollmer:
He's been so injured that its hard to trust him at this point, but I'd like to have him around as a T on this team.. he owes the Pats one after gathering a nice check in the tub for a few years now.. Would like to see him come back for reasonable money and provide depth at Tackle, hopefully starting at RT if healthy.
$3-5 mill a year range

Rob Ninkovich:
I don't see him commanding big money in FA at his age.. it wouldn't shock me for him to be offered a little more by a team like the Texans who may want his veteran leadership.. but unless he's willing to play on a smaller contract, he's probably not going to be on the team anymore.. there are a lot of young guys at DE/OLB now that will provide cheaper options

Marcus Cannon:
Dante has him playing alright this year.. i'm so jaded by this guy that I can't make an unbias assessment of him

Alan Branch:
Would like to bring him back on another team friendly deal.. I don't think this guy is going to be getting offers all over the place. so give him another 1-2 year deal to help be a grizzly vet on this Dline

Mingo:
Who knows what this guy will do in FA.. it would be nice to sign him to a 2 year deal and allow the coaching staff to try and repair all the bad habits, etc he learned in Cleveland and give him more opportunities in this defense, but its a total mystery what he'll command in Free agency

Chris Long:
He's getting up there in age.. We could possibly get away with $7 million or so a year with him similar to Sheard's deal.. he made over $100+ million in his career on some horrid teams, so maybe winning will become contagious and he'll turn down absolute top dollar to continue being successful here..

Harmon:
unfortunately there are a lot of teams in need of a good Free Safety, so Harmon is going to be in demand and will be paid like a starting safety.. on this team he's more a special teams/sub-package type guy that backs up McCourty.. which has been a nice luxury to have, but he's going to want to be paid as he should

Bolden:
Unless they don't want to give him his usual $1.5-2 mill or so on a 2 year deal and call it a day.. I can't picture him not being on the team.. just a solid depth player that contributes on special teams.. strong middle class guy

Blount:
Same as Bolden, I can't see this being super hard to get done.. He fits in here, he doesn't command a lot of money for a veteran back.. hes a great bruiser to have in our stable of backs, so we should keep him here for like $1-2 mill a year

Develin:
I cant imagine another team giving him a huge contract, but you never know





From my fingers to your eyes... this was a fun way to waste 30 minutes lol

 

[Addictive]

After finally discovering an excellent cornerback BB does not let Malcolm Butler leave the Patriots or at least not in the short term. I'm not convinced on the 1st round tender, it's possible but I think Butler is proving to be a true competitor. Given Butler's small salary now perhaps he would take an increase in the near term in a new contract rather than wait to go on the open market.

I think BB will do whatever has to be done in making cap adjustments to keep both High and Jamie Collins as Patriots. Both players haven't reached their peak yet so why would BB let either of them go. I think one of the gets a long term contract and maybe one gets the franchise tag which buys the team more time to get a longer term deal signed for both linebackers.

Mingo could be gone unless he gets more playing time. Or perhaps he steps in and takes the reps if BB decides to choose High over Collins.

Martellus Bennett will be going into his ninth year. BB isn't going to be giving Bennett a lot of guaranteed money. I think another team comes in and gives Bennett a big offer and Bennett has to decide whether he wants to stay with the Pats for less money or go to a new team.

I'd like to keep Sheard too but I think he could get a large offer as a free agent but proof again it pays to go to the Patriots receive some proper coaching and show your true quality.

Those are my priorities to keep. I think we make offers to all our other free agents but won't overpay any of the others. This will mean we'll lose a few good quality players, starter quality players but BB knows what he considers essential and who he is must keep and who he is willing to lose.

 

[DaBruinz]

DMCs cap # jumps big time in 2017.

Top 10 LBs make $12.6m annually and ave $32m in guarantees. I consider High and Collins in that
bracket.

To 10 CBs are $12.6m annually and ave $33m in guarantees. Not sure Malcolm is in that class yet. Maybe top 15

Top 10 DEs ave $12.6m annually and $34.5m in guarantees. Sheard is fringe top 10. More like top 15 IMO.

Weird how the top 10 for the positions ave $12.6m

To your point, does BB view those players as top 10? Do other teams? What will the market dictate?

The issue with both Collins and Hightower is injuries. Hightower has missed 12 games in 4 years and Collins has missed 6 games in 3 years. That is going to affect their contracts..

 

[Canuck]

From the original article: Ben Volin: Meet the receiver Tom Brady targeted during suspension - The Boston Globe

For everyone stressing about why the Patriots haven’t signed any of their premier free agents to contract extensions — Jamie Collins, Dont’a Hightower, Malcolm Butler, Logan Ryan, Martellus Bennett, among others — we hear that the Patriots have made offers, but none of the players are biting. The NFL salary cap continues to rise each year, and the players haven’t had the appetite to take one of the Patriots’ team-friendly deals.

Maybe he just heard from someone that the Patriots had made offers to some of their free agents. Notice he didn't say he heard from the Patriots. He makes it sound that the Patriots made offers to all the Players he had listed, where in fact that may not be true. The team friendly deal is pure speculation from his part.

He didn't say " We heard from the Patriots that they have offered a team friendly deal to Jamie Collins, Dont's Hightower, Malcom Butler, Logan Ryan, Martellus Bennett among other but none of the players are biting.

It sure sounds like a pure speculation piece to me. The original article reads a little different from the OP's post.

 

[long distance]

DMCs cap # jumps big time in 2017.

Top 10 LBs make $12.6m annually and ave $32m in guarantees. I consider High and Collins in that
bracket.

To 10 CBs are $12.6m annually and ave $33m in guarantees. Not sure Malcolm is in that class yet. Maybe top 15

Top 10 DEs ave $12.6m annually and $34.5m in guarantees. Sheard is fringe top 10. More like top 15 IMO.

Weird how the top 10 for the positions ave $12.6m

To your point, does BB view those players as top 10? Do other teams? What will the market dictate?

1. Value

We should be aware we value our good players higher than the rest of the league = market.
(also our “less good“ players lower - see f.e. Freeny's, Cannon's, McClellin's contracts).
That's great, that's what fandom is all about

I am sure many of us consider High and Collins among top LB but I bet other coaches see their LB's like that as well. If you consider all variety of LB positions can you honestly say that Pats have 2 in top 10 and the rest 31 teams combined only 8?

The same goes for Butler. He is not considered shut down or elite corner around the league and despite his very good and consistent play he might never be. He is not member of top 10 CB lists (not even on reserve) even if his stats might say otherwise. He works very good in Pats D but many GMs are looking for “islands“ in their #1CB.

2. Market situation

Two key elements of actual market value in certain point in time are other team's (immediate) needs and FA competition at certain position. So the value of somebody today might be 10M but because of these two factors (plus others of course) in the actual trade window it can be anywhere between 6-14 f.e.

Sanu f.e. has close to 8M cap hit in the next 4 yrs but looking at LaFell, Hogan and other receivers emerging his market value now is far far below that. He had lucky market time situation and BB is wary biting into that.

3. Depth

We should look at depth factor more I think and not only through 2017 but beyond. Incredible depth is what makes 2016 team special. If we had this depth last year the season would end differently and it was a pretty deep 2015 team to start.

- Currently Pats have only 2 players taking over 10M of cap space: Brady and Solder
and they will most probably remain (note that Brady's cap goes up 8M (to 22M) in 2018 if not restructured).
- There are only 3 players with 6-8M cap hit: High, Sheard, Gronk
- 6 players are around 5M mark:
- 7 are between 2-4M
- 9 are between 1-2M
- 26 are below 1M

Thats what makes a roster great IMO.

Miguel projects Pats cap space up to 70M for 2017. That's a lot of money even for top signings. But the kind of signings suggested in this thread mean a lot of commitment further down the road - and inevitably the loss of depth we are witnessing this year. We might not have as deep roster as this in a long time to come but my guess is BB will want as much depth as possible going forward and that means we will not see a lot of top signings coveted here.

_
Source of course: Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2016 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

 

[SEA_Pat]

I think the Patriots have been ahead of the curve, but it's starting to catch up. We're seeing a new trend lately, the combination Safety-Linebacker types, smaller than traditional linebackers but significantly faster, and larger than Safeties. You can see this percolating in Bill's mind from way back in the Tank Williams experiment, and like TE, he's been searching for these types ever since. Similarly, we've seen an absurd amount of Safeties signed, something he clearly values highly.

Hightower and Collins are so important because they're among the few able to bring both speed AND size to the second level of the defense. You can't really replace High in my opinion, and he'd be my first priority for that reason. He's the most versatile of the Backers, he's a team leader, he's a character guy, you can play him anywhere. E-Rob is showing Collins-like skills although everyone worries about his durability. But then again, London Fletcher played something like 15 years in the league and he was a small fast LB too. Note how we gave KGH an extended look as well and paid a 5th for Mingo so we could test him. While I'd love to keep Jamie, I see him being priced-out of our market. He'll be replaced by E-Rob, Freeny and drafted guys along those lines. We'll need a Hightower backup too, but we'll be quite vulnerable if he goes down since he's pretty unique. Collins demonstrated that he could replace him, which may make us consider paying him a premium.

I can't see us letting DMC go, given that he's the King of the Safeties, and BB relies on him for everything in the Secondary. I find it quite amusing to watch us gnashing teeth over the potential loss of Harmon - when did he go from "I can't believe we drafted him in the Third Round" to "He's going to be in high demand around the league, don't think we'll be able to keep him." I reckon he's gone too, but with all the stockpiling of young Safeties on Special Teams it's likely someone will step up to replace him while we get a nice comp pick in return.

Continuing on the defensive tea leave reading...Butler is very important since the "put CB2 and Safety help on WR1 and put Malcolm on WR2" has become our go-to strategy. Given that our CB2 gets help in our scheme so doesn't have to be shutdown, Ryan will be gone IMHO to be replaced by one of our several new guys. With a nice comp pick in return, of course.

As far as fat guys...Sheard will get overpaid, but not by us. Branch should be willing to come back on a reasonable deal, Long seems to really like it here and is likely at the point in his career where ring-chasing is more important than maximizing the dollars. Nink will likely be more useful to us than others and probably knows he's put in the best position to succeed here. On the other hand, he could be a prime candidate for BB's "thanks for your service, good luck" one-year-too-early-better-than-one-year-too-late guy.