National Championship GDT: Bama/OSU

[captain stone]

With Smith out in the second half and Harris not that effective rushing, Jones continued to light it up in the second half. People will want to see him make the 20 yard throw into tight windows (Smith was 5 yards open all night and most of the year), but nothing about his mechanics suggests he can’t.

Can he also produce outside in December? is a question that will be asked of him...And I sure do wish these kids took snaps under center; the Senior Bowl practices will be a first time for most if not all of them...

 

[bormio]

Can he also produce outside in December? is a question that will be asked of him...And I sure do wish these kids took snaps under center; the Senior Bowl practices will be a first time for most if not all of them...

I am so tired of watching 3rd and one plays snapped to a QB 7 yards behind the LOS

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Body type is overrated. We draft busted on Chad Jackson, NKeal Harry, and trade busted on Sanu due to body type. Meanwhile our best receivers have been short Welker, Edelman, and Meyers is also slim.

To answer your question, Marvin Harrison had a similar body type as Devonta.

With respect you're missing the point here big time lol. Yes Harrison & Smith have similar body types but those types haven't translated into success at the NFL level. Again from 2000 you have over 2500 WR drafted. Only one broke 750 yards in a single season. That's not just my opinion and it's not a deal breaker but something that can't be ignored. So while Smith may very well be the prospect everyone thinks he will be there's cause for concern.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think or ruin anyone's draft crush. I'm happy you're in full draft-mode. I think we just come at it from different pov.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

With respect you're missing the point here big time lol. Yes Harrison & Smith have similar body types but those types haven't translated into success at the NFL level. Again from 2000 you have over 2500 WR drafted. Only one broke 750 yards in a single season. That's not just my opinion and it's not a deal breaker but something that can't be ignored. So while Smith may very well be the prospect everyone thinks he will be there's cause for concern.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think or ruin anyone's draft crush. I'm happy you're in full draft-mode. I think we just come at it from different pov.

I fundamentally disagree with the argument that X players with a certain body type make it or not, so choose players based on body type. Bill Walsh famously disregarded NFL combine crap. How about actual evaluation, like, can a receiver run different routes against a CB to get separation and catch the ball in a live observed workout? Saying X receivers were all 6'2 210 pounds is totally meaningless. This is how the Patriots end up taking Chad Jackson, Aaron Dobson, and NKeal Harry. We look at body type crap and 3cone. And then have to coach up guys like Meyers, Edelman, Welker because the WR/CB broken draft system developed by McDaniels is total horsesh-t.

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[Ochmed Jones]

Barmore, the defensive tackle from Alabama made himself a lot of money in Alabama’s last three games.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I fundamentally disagree with the argument that X players with a certain body type make it or not, so choose players based on body type.

This is the hard part about the forum sometimes lol. Your opinions and mine don't matter on some stuff. Try to understand this, it's not opinion or an argument or debate. It's fact.

Bill Walsh famously disregarded NFL combine crap. How about actual evaluation,

I'm probably the only person here actually evaluating prospects. Also I noticed when for actual evaluation on Waddle you had crickets. Nothing wrong with that. Its Draft season have fun but dying on a hill for 5-6 prospects in January and having these black and whites takes isn't it.

like, can a receiver run different routes against a CB to get separation and catch the ball in a live observed workout? Saying X receivers were all 6'2 210 pounds is totally meaningless. This is how the Patriots end up taking Chad Jackson, Aaron Dobson, and NKeal Harry. We look at body type crap and 3cone. And then have to coach up guys like Meyers, Edelman, Welker because the WR/CB broken draft system developed by McDaniels is total horsesh-t.

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Body type absolutely matters but no one is making decisions solely off of that or 3 cone. You'd be foolish to think different. You really don't think body type matters at all lol? Seriously think this through a bit .... Hint - don't get stuck on just WRs. It's just a part of the process and everyone has their own.

Try watching more than a few of the same prospects. There's a lot of guys that can help us.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is the hard part about the forum sometimes lol. Your opinions and mine don't matter on some stuff. Try to understand this, it's not opinion or an argument or debate. It's fact.


I'm probably the only person here actually evaluating prospects. Also I noticed when for actual evaluation on Waddle you had crickets. Nothing wrong with that. Its Draft season have fun but dying on a hill for 5-6 prospects in January and having these black and whites takes isn't it.

Body type absolutely matters but no one is making decisions solely off of that or 3 cone. You'd be foolish to think different. You really don't think body type matters at all lol? Seriously think this through a bit .... Hint - don't get stuck on just WRs. It's just a part of the process and everyone has their own.

Try watching more than a few of the same prospects. There's a lot of guys that can help us.

You missed the part where I posted already saying I saw Waddle's tape. Not impressed. He runs post and slant routes. Not super productive. He's been turning on the jets after catching it which is impressive but not worth a first round grade.

Also it's flat out wrong logic on the body size argument. Meaning, you can't say a guy is 6'2 210 to justify why a guy is a good draft pick. That's using reverse logic. As an overly simplistic example, you can't just say a ball player will be great just because they're of a certain demographic. Even though one could use the same stupid logic and say on average or in aggregate across a sample size of thousands, that most successful ball players are of a certain demographic. Do you see why this logic makes zero sense? The argument to draft a guy should be based first on whether they can actually do the job. In the case of a WR, ask can they literally run routes to get open against a live NFL CB? Can they run multiple routes to be a 3down player, get open, and catch the ball. Not what their 3cone is or if they are the right height and weight. The idiocy around backwards-justifying draft picks based on selecting a guy based on body type or combine 3cone is exactly how we ended up with NKeal Harry, Aaron Dobson, and Chad Jackson total BUSTS. There are a vast majority of thousands of players who 'fit' the body type and flame out because that's not what makes a good player or not.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You missed the part where I posted already saying I saw Waddle's tape. Not impressed. He runs post and slant routes. Not super productive. He's been turning on the jets after catching it which is impressive but not worth a first round grade.

If all you're getting is "he runs slants and post" then you're literally just staring at the TV and have no idea what you're watching. Let's at least call it what it is. That's not insight or analysis. It's just your opinion.

Also it's flat out wrong logic on the body size argument. Meaning, you can't say a guy is 6'2 210 to justify why a guy is a good draft pick. That's using reverse logic. As an overly simplistic example, you can't just say a ball player will be great just because they're of a certain demographic. Even though one could use the same stupid logic and say on average or in aggregate across a sample size of thousands, that most successful ball players are of a certain demographic. Do you see why this logic makes zero sense? The argument to draft a guy should be based first on whether they can actually do the job. In the case of a WR, ask can they literally run routes to get open against a live NFL CB? Can they run multiple routes to be a 3down player, get open, and catch the ball. Not what their 3cone is or if they are the right height and weight. The idiocy around backwards-justifying draft picks based on selecting a guy based on body type or combine 3cone is exactly how we ended up with NKeal Harry, Aaron Dobson, and Chad Jackson total BUSTS. There are a vast majority of thousands of players who 'fit' the body type and flame out because that's not what makes a good player or not.

You must have missed the 10 times I said it's not the end all be all. You don't solely judge someone on that but you'd be a fool to ignore evidence like that one way or the other.

If you don't think body type matters I can only imagine your opinions on defensive and offensive lineman? It's a small part of the puzzle whether you want to admit it or not. Again this isn't my opinion.

Why do you think prospects get sized up and down multiple times??

Why do certain teams have thresholds at OL, CB & other positions.

Why do scouts look for prospects that are high-cut? Not bc they enjoy it personally I can tell you that.

Again it's just a small part of evaluation. Not sure why you can't understand that.