MVP thread

[sb1]

This guy again. Lol

 

[TheRainMaker]

Remember the Steve McNair controversy in 2003? Media wanted a feel good story and forced him to share with Manning because he was "due". He missed 2 games with his backups going 2-0, went 3-3 against teams .500 and above and eventually went 0-4 against Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Both Manning and Brady ended up in the AFCCG with Tom Brady winning the Super Bowl.

The voting is flawed. While it will be annoying if Maye doesn't win, it's very surprising to see that Brady only won 3 MVP's in his career.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This guy again. Lol

Drake is his new dominatrix

 

[Huckleberry1]

There’s exactly one time a QB had over 45 TD’s and didn’t win MVP. It was Drew Brees and he didn’t get it because Aaron Rodgers broke the passer rating record with a stupid 120+ rating. Realistically a playoff QB with that many TD’s and volume is going to win most of the time. When you need to go into advanced stats, it’s a tougher climb

When is the last time the quarterback on a 5th seed won MVP?

 

[lancerman]

This is true, however Lamar lead Allen in all traditional stats last year and played much tougher opposition.
the "Lamar fatigue" was real, and voters wanted to give it to a different guy.
Voters vote how they want, damn the relevant data.

A big problem is that Lamar also had a playoff choker label and they were sort of over giving him major accolades and watching his disappoint. Also Allen never really got honored despite being a top 2 QB in the league each of the last 5 ish years and giving Lamar a third and putting him in rare air wasn't as enticing as giving Allen a little shine.

Meanwhile and MVP is probably something that locks Stafford into the HOF after wasting most of his career on the Lions.

 

[PatsFan2]

I kinda feel a Panthers upset coming.

Bryce Young will prevent it that is certain.

 

[lancerman]

When is the last time the quarterback on a 5th seed won MVP?

It doesn't typically happen, but this is a weird year. If the debate is between a 2 seed QB and a 5 seed QB that could be a big contentious issue. But in reality, Stafford won exactly 2 less games than Maye. So when you look at seeding it seems more dramatic a difference than it is. And people can poo poo the Falcons game loss but the Patriots have a loss against the last place team in the NFL. The rest of both teams losses were against playoff teams (Patriots lost to the Bills and Steelers while the Rams lost to the Eagles, 49'ers, Panthers, Seahawks) and like the Patriots, they split with the playoff teams in their division and the losses were OT losses so they don't look that bad.

This was a much closer race than people on either side of it will really concede and the negatives you can bring up against both don't really look as bad contextually when you dive into what actually happened and the strengths aren't really deciders any ways.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

A big problem is that Lamar also had a playoff choker label and they were sort of over giving him major accolades and watching his disappoint. Also Allen never really got honored despite being a top 2 QB in the league each of the last 5 ish years and giving Lamar a third and putting him in rare air wasn't as enticing as giving Allen a little shine.

Meanwhile and MVP is probably something that locks Stafford into the HOF after wasting most of his career on the Lions.

Yup, but everything you stated relates to career, not a singular year, which is what the award is supposed to be.

 

[lancerman]

Yup, but everything you stated relates to career, not a singular year, which is what the award is supposed to be.

It's supposed to be, but let's be real, "narrative" plays a lot in the MVP discussion. Typically the more enticing story has an advantage. And Stafford is a guy who a lot of people in the media felt was stuck in Detroit and getting kneecapped from career accolades and now has a chance late in his career to show that Detroit was the issue and he can be a winner and top end talent in a competent structure. Maye just sort of has "young guy having a break out season" narrative going on which is something that happens every few years.

 

[Ross12]

It's supposed to be, but let's be real, "narrative" plays a lot in the MVP discussion. Typically the more enticing story has an advantage. And Stafford is a guy who a lot of people in the media felt was stuck in Detroit and getting kneecapped from career accolades and now has a chance late in his career to show that Detroit was the issue and he can be a winner and top end talent in a competent structure. Maye just sort of has "young guy having a break out season" narrative going on which is something that happens every few years.

Stafford didn’t already prove that by, you know, winning a Super Bowl?

It’s like everyone forgot. The dude has a ring already.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

It's supposed to be, but let's be real, "narrative" plays a lot in the MVP discussion. Typically the more enticing story has an advantage. And Stafford is a guy who a lot of people in the media felt was stuck in Detroit and getting kneecapped from career accolades and now has a chance late in his career to show that Detroit was the issue and he can be a winner and top end talent in a competent structure. Maye just sort of has "young guy having a break out season" narrative going on which is something that happens every few years.

Oh I agree 100%.
Narrative, bias all play a role, a huge role.
I'm not saying Stafford won't win, I expect him to.
I'm also not saying he isn't deserving, both guys are and I have said that since the start.
But....in the true spirit of the award, and how it's supposed to be judged, anything outside of the current year shouldn't ever be a consideration.

 

[dliverey44]

Why is everyone mad at Orlovsky? All season he has been hyping up Maye.

Because fans all want their guy to win the award and anyone that does not agree is obviously a hater.

 

[lancerman]

Stafford didn’t already prove that by, you know, winning a Super Bowl?

It’s like everyone forgot. The dude has a ring already.

Yeah but 1 ring ain't getting him in the HOF. An MVP on top of that will. This is pretty much his only chance to solidify any case for a HOF bid so in a close race, narratively this is a career do or die moment for Stafford.

Drake's in a situation where I think a lot of voters see him as a guy on a team that is still on an upward trajectory and the best is yet to come so he will have bites at the apple again and chances for more titles. If he does, this year not getting the MVP and only a Second Team All Pro doesn't hurt him. If he doesn't and flails out, this year an MVP would just be an anomaly anyways.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Because fans all want their guy to win the award and anyone that does not agree is obviously a hater.

That's not necessarily true.
Orlovsky has been pimping Stafford hard leading up to the MVP voting deadline.
He's brought up SOS against Maye multiple times on air.
He's a known good friend of Stafford's.
Then the day of the deadline after he he lobbied hard for Stafford he praises Maye and says he's worthy after the votes have been submitted.
Pretty disingenuous if you ask me.

 

[Ross12]

Yeah but 1 ring ain't getting him in the HOF. An MVP on top of that will. This is pretty much his only chance to solidify any case for a HOF bid so in a close race, narratively this is a career do or die moment for Stafford.

Drake's in a situation where I think a lot of voters see him as a guy on a team that is still on an upward trajectory and the best is yet to come so he will have bites at the apple again and chances for more titles. If he does, this year not getting the MVP and only a Second Team All Pro doesn't hurt him. If he doesn't and flails out, this year an MVP would just be an anomaly anyways.

That's a big leap of logic though between "prove he's actually good and was just being held back by Detroit" and "prove he belongs in the HOF." Those two are not the same thing. He's proven he is good - but I don't think most voters will ever feel he's a HOF level QB even with an MVP and a ring. The average fan will forget who he was 10 years from now.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Stafford looks cooked today. A Manning/Rodgers like letdown after all that MVP campaigning.

 

[Mack Herron]

HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA


Shame about his finger injury.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah but 1 ring ain't getting him in the HOF. An MVP on top of that will. This is pretty much his only chance to solidify any case for a HOF bid so in a close race, narratively this is a career do or die moment for Stafford.

Drake's in a situation where I think a lot of voters see him as a guy on a team that is still on an upward trajectory and the best is yet to come so he will have bites at the apple again and chances for more titles. If he does, this year not getting the MVP and only a Second Team All Pro doesn't hurt him. If he doesn't and flails out, this year an MVP would just be an anomaly anyways.

If this is true and voters are basing their votes on the meaning to your legacy of being given an award or the number of years you have left to win another, rather than who was the most valuable player the system is horribly broken.

 

[Milloymam]

Regular season MVP does not matter, SB MVP would be fantastic. Imagine if the team makes it that far !

 

[lancerman]

If this is true and voters are basing their votes on the meaning to your legacy of being given an award or the number of years you have left to win another, rather than who was the most valuable player the system is horribly broken.

Again, the term value is subjective. Every year fans of a player in the running try to squeeze whatever metrics support their guy into that "value" part. MVP has always been a narrative award. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady both won MVP's while having some of the stupidest embarrassment of riches surrounding them on offense. It's typically just the playoff QB with the best volume stats unless some RB makes the playoffs and breaks some longstanding record.

There's no objective way to determine "value" so it becomes more of a narrative award. Brady literally lost it a couple of years ago because him and Rodgers both had exactly one stinker of a game all year only Brady's was later in the year so people remembered it. Allen got it simply because him and Lamar were considered close enough and Lamar got two already.

Realistically this year is a toss up and Stafford has the benefit of the more traditional metrics (TD's and yards) and the narrative.