MNF 12/12 Pre-game thread: Pats @ Arizona

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Red zone offense is 31st

tied for last with Denver.
If we are going to pick stats for measuring true offensive performance, I think this is a very logical one.
Because the field is shortened inside the red zone its generally much easier to defend than between the 20's.
Offensive shortcomings stand out big time in the red zone.

This year it seems like Mac becomes completely discombobulated inside the opponents 20.

 

[Tunescribe]

tied for last with Denver.
If we are going to pick stats for measuring true offensive performance, I think this is a very logical one.
Because the field is shortened inside the red zone its generally much easier to defend than between the 20's.
Offensive shortcomings stand out big time in the red zone.

This year it seems like Mac becomes completely discombobulated inside the opponents 20.

ANY quarterback would become discombobulated inside the opponent's 20 behind THAT offensive line while taking cues from THAT offensive coordinator -- let alone a quarterback with less than two years NFL experience.

On a lighter note, the Patriots damn well better win this game or kiss the season goodbye.

 

[Twentytothree]

Patriots have the worst red zone offense in the NFL (tied with the incredibly lowly Broncos at 37.50%). Arizona has the worst red zone defense in the NFL at 68.89%. So that's an interesting matchup of horribleness.

Stoppable force vs movable object. Should be a thriller.

 

[SVN]

Offensive changes during the Brady years were not systemic, though. Same scheme, playbook, terminology but with perhaps different emphases as new personnel came along, new wrinkles added, etc. Things were pretty seamless for Tom because new OCs came up internally.

Yes. My point was BB was flexible to change the offense even the way it operated for a whole season over the yrs. it wasnt the same offense which they ran in 2006 and 2007 e.g . From what i remember he sent josh to work with urban meyer (??) to get some idea of the spread offense and later with chip kelly for the sugar huddle.
He isnt one to get stuck with the same offensive operation forever as it was suggested happened before we won another SB after 10 yrs.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Offensive changes during the Brady years were not systemic, though. Same scheme, playbook, terminology but with perhaps different emphases as new personnel came along, new wrinkles added, etc. Things were pretty seamless for Tom because new OCs came up internally.

During previous transitions, the new OCs seemed to be able to take input from the players and adjust where appropriate. MP seems to have a severe "not invented here" mentality where it is his way or the highway. That has come out in Detroit and in the complaints from Pats players since training camp. MP is probably great with the x's and o's, he fails to connect with his players to get their best effort. It is difficult to play your best if you are not bought in mentally.

 

[ashley]

Good morning everyone, getting ya'll ready for a quiet Wednesday, practice will reconvene tomorrow:

 

[venecol]

In the 9 seasons in between the 2004 & 2014 SBs, the Pats won the Division 8 times. They were top 10 Off in Pts & Yds 8 times.

In 3 seasons since 2019, Pats have not won the Division, & will end Top 10 Off in Pts & Yds 1 time.

Does anyone believe this team will win the Division in 2023? There's just no comparison between the 2005-2013 seasons and these post dynasty II ones. The Goat QB is gone and the Goat HC is over 70. The magic formula is gone. Time to reboot.

 

[Pats2000]

ANY quarterback would become discombobulated inside the opponent's 20 behind THAT offensive line while taking cues from THAT offensive coordinator -- let alone a quarterback with less than two years NFL experience.

On a lighter note, the Patriots damn well better win this game or kiss the season goodbye.

So you're saying Mahommes, Brady, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, etc. Would be in last place in the red zone if they were on the Pats

 

[Tunescribe]

So you're saying Mahommes, Brady, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, etc. Would be in last place in the red zone if they were on the Pats

No, re-read my post. I said they would become discombobulated.

 

[Patsfan1958]

From Patriots.com:

Game Preview: Patriots at Cardinals

2022 REGULAR SEASON	NEW ENGLAND	ARIZONA
Record	6-6	4-8
Divisional Standings	4th	3rd
Total Yards Gained	3,827	4,017
Total Offense (Rank)	318.9 (24)	334.8 (20)
Rush Offense	104.9 (23)	114.9 (21)
Pass Offense	214.0 (20)	219.8 (17)
Points Per Game	20.8 (20)	22.0 (6)
Total Yards Allowed	3,741	4,274
Total Defense (Rank)	311.8 (7)	356.2 (21)
Rush Defense	111.2 (11)	110.8 (10)
Pass Defense	200.6 (9)	245.4 (24)
Points Allowed/Game	18.8 (7T)	26.8 (31)
Possession Avg.	29:39	30:38
Sacks Allowed/Yards Lost	32/213	31/248
Sacks Made/Yards	39/242	23/176
Total Touchdowns Scored	25	31
Penalties Against/Yards	72/590	82/648
Punts/Avg.	53/42.4	48/46.9
Turnover Differential	+2 (10T)	+1 (13T)

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac is 3rd in Comp% at 68.1% behind Burrow and Geno (...and Hoyer). I really hope they figure this all out soon.

Give him an actual QB coach/OC and it'll help immeasureably.

If he wants it, I gotta think Hoyer is that Qb coach next year...?

 

[Patsfan177a]

So you're saying Mahommes, Brady, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, etc. Would be in last place in the red zone if they were on the Pats

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[signbabybrady]

Give him an actual QB coach/OC and it'll help immeasureably.

If he wants it, I gotta think Hoyer is that Qb coach next year...?

If Hoyer is the magic answer I wish he would share it with Mac now.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac is 3rd in Comp% at 68.1% behind Burrow and Geno (...and Hoyer). I really hope they figure this all out soon.

A lot of his passes behind the LOS and behind the sticks.

 

[Sicilian]

Serious question. Does having a 3rd and 7 at the 19 yard line count as a red zone attempt?

It does. Not a great stat on an individual basis, but after 12 games it's pretty indicative of success (or lack there of) because those kinds of situations balance out.

No, re-read my post. I said they would become discombobulated.

Case in point, Tampa Bay with Brady is 21st in the league. Way better than the Pats, but still below league average.

Las Vegas with the OC we're missing, plus Jacobs and Adams is 28th in the league.

It takes a good QB, a good playcaller/designer, a good OL, and good skill position players to succeed in the red zone consistently.

Although Detroit of all teams is #1 at 73.91% TD in the red zone, so who knows. (EDIT: They were also 31st in Red Zone TD% last year, for those wondering how quickly something like this stat can turn around).

 

[RobertWeathers]

If Hoyer is the magic answer I wish he would share it with Mac now.

Word.

 

[Jim Beankie]

A lot of his passes behind the LOS and behind the sticks.

I mean that was early Brady...

 

[JMC00]

ANY quarterback would become discombobulated inside the opponent's 20 behind THAT offensive line while taking cues from THAT offensive coordinator -- let alone a quarterback with less than two years NFL experience.

Makes this little stat about Mac over the last few weeks seem even more impressive

Only QBs from Week 8-13
with
120+ attempts
70% completion rate
1 or less INTs

Spoiler: It's 2 QBs drafted by Belichick and neither of them are named Tom Brady

 

[PatsFan2]

Makes this little stat about Mac over the last few weeks seem even more impressive

Only QBs from Week 8-13
with
120+ attempts
70% completion rate
1 or less INTs

Spoiler: It's 2 QBs drafted by Belichick and neither of them are named Tom Brady

View attachment 48020

Pretty weak TD totals for Wac Jones.

 

[TomPatriot]

A lot of his passes behind the LOS and behind the sticks.

Which he has complained about, to his credit.