MNF 12/12 Pre-game thread: Pats @ Arizona

[ivanvamp]

Fortunately for their terrible defense NE has arguable the worst offense in all of football.

NE's offense ranks:

#20 in points scored
#24 in yards gained
#18 in OSRS (from pro-football-reference.com)
#18 in yards per play
#12 in net yards/attempt passing
#20 in % of drives resulting in a score

I mean, those aren't GOOD numbers, but they're far, far from the worst offense in all of football. We just see them every week so it FEELS like they are. But they're not even close.

What they are the worst at is red zone touchdown percentage, a far, far cry from last year when they were in the top 10. And they've got the 7th most giveaways in the NFL, which obviously isn't good either.

So yeah, they're not good, but they're not remotely the worst offense in football. Pretty far from it, actually. They're basically at the top of the bottom third of the league.

 

[PatsFan2]

what a joke

Being the GOAT of Head Coaches he can rest on his laurels.

 

[SVN]

Being the GOAT of Head Coaches he can rest on his laurels.

as someone else pointed out in the forum. he is choosing his words carefully between half lying and half not saying the truth. He wont say anything about patricia specifically. And its fine, unlike his players , he isnt going to air issues with coaches in public.

 

[signbabybrady]

They are out there. Plenty of new coaches are having success. And you can't turn it around and compare it to Bill when he had Tom. To hold the Pats to the standard they had from 2001-2019 is flat out delusional.

That's the standard now. Bill is dealing with it now and the next guy will too. I mean this 3 year window isn't great but if it didn't follow the 20 years prior would we all be in such a tizzy?

 

[PScottman]

I like the idea of bringing in a FA quarterback for a 2-3 season window

Anyone any good will consume the majority of their cap next year (trading a rookie salary for a veteran one) leaving only the draft to address the massive OL holes.

Said new QB would be exposed as is every other QB ever when every third play someone comes untouched or they're in 2d and forever because of penalties or the opposing defense knows the plays because they're awfully predictable.

There is no simple solution. It's multi-pronged across coaching, QB play, OL play and other factors. Changing just one aspect of it isn't a cure all.

 

[PScottman]

I find this quote interesting. You'd expect Bill to kind of defend Patricia. Instead he seems to almost imply he knows it needs to change but it's too late for this season...

Hope isn't a strategy, but it's sometimes a plan.

 

[crawhammer]

Anyone any good will consume the majority of their cap next year (trading a rookie salary for a veteran one) leaving only the draft to address the massive OL holes.

Said new QB would be exposed as is every other QB ever when every third play someone comes untouched or they're in 2d and forever because of penalties or the opposing defense knows the plays because they're awfully predictable.

There is no simple solution. It's multi-pronged across coaching, QB play, OL play and other factors. Changing just one aspect of it isn't a cure all.

I still like the idea of it. In reality it's probably not happening. The list of potential FA quarterbacks for 2023 is pretty weak too... unless you can somehow go after Lamar Jackson but that's a franchise move and not the 2-3 year veteran bridge quarterback I was originally talking about.

 

[signbabybrady]

I still like the idea of it. In reality it's probably not happening. The list of potential FA quarterbacks for 2023 is pretty weak too... unless you can somehow go after Lamar Jackson but that's a franchise move and not the 2-3 year veteran bridge quarterback I was originally talking about.

I'd take Lamar lol

 

[Jim Beankie]

Last 4 games Mac is completing 70% of his passes with 0 picks and a 101.5 Qb rating.

You are blaming the wrong person.

Mac is 3rd in Comp% at 68.1% behind Burrow and Geno (...and Hoyer). I really hope they figure this all out soon.

 

[Jim Beankie]

There is an offensive coordinator, he's also somehow the OL coach. So he's somehow handling two crucial full time positions and is underqualified for both of them.

There's not enough talk about how undermanned OL is with coaching. That's a full time important position.

We have BB talking at length about how specialized certain player positions are to where you need to have a dedicated person there (like long snapper) and then tied for the 2nd most important coaching positions, we have people juggling multiple jobs probably getting overstretched. Hopefully RKK will snap some sense into him.

 

[Grogan14]

NE's offense ranks:

#20 in points scored
#24 in yards gained
#18 in OSRS (from pro-football-reference.com)
#18 in yards per play
#12 in net yards/attempt passing
#20 in % of drives resulting in a score

I mean, those aren't GOOD numbers, but they're far, far from the worst offense in all of football. We just see them every week so it FEELS like they are. But they're not even close.

What they are the worst at is red zone touchdown percentage, a far, far cry from last year when they were in the top 10. And they've got the 7th most giveaways in the NFL, which obviously isn't good either.

So yeah, they're not good, but they're not remotely the worst offense in football. Pretty far from it, actually. They're basically at the top of the bottom third of the league.

Red zone offense is tied for last with Denver.
So that is absolutely the worst.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

All you can do at this point is hope. Hope that T Brown gets his strength back, hope that one of Wynn and Cajuste can return to full strength for the Cardinals, and hope Mac can move in the pocket and not be afraid of being hit.

I think we get Barmore back for the Raiders game so he can warm up before the Bengals. Can we cover Hopkins, then Adams, and then Chase? It will continue to be a good test for J Jones and determine how large his FA contract is going to be. Maybe we use the famous over and under with Jack Jones and McCourty and let J Jones cover the #2 one-on-one?

At 6-6 there is no room for error. Every year one or two teams shine over the last 5 or 6 games, and one or two teams crash. Last year we crashed, let's hope that this year we shine.

 

[Tunescribe]

It took 10 yrs BB to win another SB yes .But did you see them run the same offense every yr.?
I know BB messed up and its full pile on BB season but lets not ignore how much they changed the offense with brady every few yrs. Spread wide with moss, Two TEs with Gronk, There was the chip kelly sugar huddle,2018 all running .I am sure there are many other cases. Brady didnt run the same offense from 2004 to 2014 . We went to the SB twice in between and were a helmet catch away from winning 3 yrs after the previous. Lets not forget all that happened.
Again, lets read again the standard we got accustomed to with him and then decide if he should be fired. "Not won another superbowl in 10 yrs" .Any team will take that.
I actually prefer his grooming of assistants to take over when someone leaves. Thats how josh came , thats how flores came, bill o brien came. Just this time he messed up big time. And this team of players in general reminds me of the 2009 team with adalius thomas and co. They all want to do well but not everyrone has the awareness or effort level or fire to get angry and take it to another level. instead they just pout in the media. Other than mondre, mac jones and meyers eveyrone has played lackadaisical at times all season. and they all seem to think they are close.

Offensive changes during the Brady years were not systemic, though. Same scheme, playbook, terminology but with perhaps different emphases as new personnel came along, new wrinkles added, etc. Things were pretty seamless for Tom because new OCs came up internally.

 

[Pats2000]

Mac ain't going anywhere. Getting a competent QB coach and OC (not to mention a dedicated OL coach) will fix most of what ails Mac.

Be prepared for a lot of OL drafting especially early.

I dont think it will. Good teams had Mac figured out by the end of the year in 21. There are still a lot off problems with Mac's game, despite the coaching issues.

 

[captain stone]

Not surprising... Those guys have to be sick to death of their coaches by now...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not surprising... Those guys have to be sick to death of their coaches by now...

Agreed. I know how those guys feel. I am sick to death of some of the posters around here.

 

[Patsfan177a]

Red zone offense is 31st

Serious question. Does having a 3rd and 7 at the 19 yard line count as a red zone attempt?

 

[captain stone]

Serious question. Does having a 3rd and 7 at the 19 yard line count as a red zone attempt?

I believe any drive that has at least one snap at or inside the opponent's 20, regardless of down/distance, is considered to have ended in a RZ opportunity...

 

[Grogan14]

Red zone offense is 31st

tied for last with Denver.
If we are going to pick stats for measuring true offensive performance, I think this is a very logical one.
Because the field is shortened inside the red zone its generally much easier to defend than between the 20's.
Offensive shortcomings stand out big time in the red zone.

This year it seems like Mac becomes completely discombobulated inside the opponents 20.

 

[Tunescribe]

tied for last with Denver.
If we are going to pick stats for measuring true offensive performance, I think this is a very logical one.
Because the field is shortened inside the red zone its generally much easier to defend than between the 20's.
Offensive shortcomings stand out big time in the red zone.

This year it seems like Mac becomes completely discombobulated inside the opponents 20.

ANY quarterback would become discombobulated inside the opponent's 20 behind THAT offensive line while taking cues from THAT offensive coordinator -- let alone a quarterback with less than two years NFL experience.

On a lighter note, the Patriots damn well better win this game or kiss the season goodbye.