Mike Perreira on the Clement "TD"

[Chris Stevenson]

This could have helped us a bit. But in the grand scheme of things, doesn't even fall in the top 5 reasons we lost:

1. ****ty front 7
2. Poor defensive game plan
3. Unjustifiable decision to bench Butler
4. Jordan Richards
5. Cooks doing stupid ****.

Maybe you can add this call or that somewhere in the top 10. Bottom line is it didn't cost us the game. Many other things did, but not that. They're close calls. You can't expect them to always go your way. And if any of the above 5 things were different, we win.

If they called illegal formation, they would have scored anyways. If they reversed the Clement touchdown, they would have just scored anyways. Our defense was ****ing trash. It didn't matter. It could have been 4th and 50 and Jordan Richards would have went under that screen and given up that massive play. The defense just sucked.

it was 3rd and 6 on that play and flowers made a nice play in coverage to not interfere and do enough to get clement to switch sides of his body for final possession

philly’s d was also trash so whenever you people keep rejecting that this was a shootout and the way the game unfolded, a free 4 points for the opponent is still a gift 4 points

the topic of this thread is goodell’s blatant cheating against our team, right out in the open

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I’m not doing this.

You can sit up in your tinfoil treehouse and point down at the onlookers all day if you’d like, but it won’t accomplish anything except making our fanbase look like disillusioned sore losers. (Which we make fun of other teams for doing.)

There was a lot that went wrong, and it went way beyond iffy calls.

that was not an “iffy”. it was factually an incompletion called a td with a clear angle to overturn it

nothing more, nothing less

changing rules during a season to affect 1 team is 100% cheating by goodell and i refuse to keep ignoring it

 

[Chris Stevenson]

But doesn't Pereira diagree with you?

Mike Pereira‏Verified account @MikePereira Feb 4
I agree with the stands. It was close but the initial ruling dictated. Good for Riveron/Yurk to stay with the standard that it not obvious that the call was wrong. Slight movement of the ball and slight bobble but slight is not enough to overturn.

today is february 12

thanks

 

[fnordcircle]

changing rules during a season to affect 1 team is 100% cheating by goodell and i refuse to keep ignoring it

Ok well, keep us up to date on how that goes for you.

The catch rules suck, they need to get fixed because it's bad TV. Saying that is cheating is mildly insane.

 

[ivanvamp]

If they called that correctly, it would have forced a fourth and goal from the six. They kick the field goal there. That's four points.

If they call the Clement TD correctly, that would have been an incomplete pass forcing a fourth and six. They kick the field goal there too. That's another four points.

That's eight points that to be perfectly honest, Philly shouldn't have had.

The final margin was eight points.

The Eagles played great and I have no problem giving them credit. But that's eight points that they absolutely should not have had.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Ok well, keep us up to date on how that goes for you.

The catch rules suck, they need to get fixed because it's bad TV. Saying that is cheating is mildly insane.

why was kevin benjamin’s td over-turned correctly if this clement td was not?

fans expecting clear
rules and consistency is something
we shouldn’t from a multi billion dollar operation?

possession with 2 feet down is clear as is surviving the ground. it is purely a black and white rule which leaves no room for ambiguity. that is how a rule should be.

perceived “gifts” for ne, on correctly ruled plays, followed by moronic outrage from people who don’t even know the rule, is what happened here.

saying the rule should be changed in a super bowl means it could be mild ******ation

 

[convertedpatsfan]

it was 3rd and 6 on that play and flowers made a nice play in coverage to not interfere and do enough to get clement to switch sides of his body for final possession

philly’s d was also trash so whenever you people keep rejecting that this was a shootout and the way the game unfolded, a free 4 points for the opponent is still a gift 4 points

the topic of this thread is goodell’s blatant cheating against our team, right out in the open

And if it was 4th and 6, they would have went for it and gotten it against our atrocious D.

Philly's defense got shredded by the GOAT during an MVP season. Our D got shredded by backup Nick Foles. Hardly the same thing.

Pereira openly talked about this LAST YEAR when the switch was made to let New York communicate directly with the referees during a game with no other interruption. That was obviously an issue but seemed like nobody gave a **** back then, so not sure why it's so upsetting now.

Bottom line is if the Patriots play their game, they're good enough to beat the Eagles, the refs, Goodell, everyone. We didn't do it. We had a bad strategy. We mixed in poor decisions, then dumped tons of bad tackling on top of it. We didn't deserve to win. It's only because of the GOAT that we didn't get blown out.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Re: catches

It was clear to anyone watching from the start of the postseason that the standard of review had changed for all the playoff games going back to the wildcard round, not just the Superbowl. Riveron was clearly told to tighten up the standard of review.

Which really is fine, because during the regular season Riveron had taken it upon himself to noticeably loosen the standard of review. In the abstract I'm fine with that because I want the call right and not stick to a bad on-the-field call because of "not enough" evidence to overturn it. However, that change should be made via a formal change in the review rules, not be Riveron deciding to do it on his own.

So no, it wasn't some tinfoil hat scheme to screw NE.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

And if it was 4th and 6, they would have went for it and gotten it against our atrocious D.

Philly's defense got shredded by the GOAT during an MVP season. Our D got shredded by backup Nick Foles. Hardly the same thing.

Pereira openly talked about this LAST YEAR when the switch was made to let New York communicate directly with the referees during a game with no other interruption. That was obviously an issue but seemed like nobody gave a **** back then, so not sure why it's so upsetting now.

Bottom line is if the Patriots play their game, they're good enough to beat the Eagles, the refs, Goodell, everyone. We didn't do it. We had a bad strategy. We mixed in poor decisions, then dumped tons of bad tackling on top of it. We didn't deserve to win. It's only because of the GOAT that we didn't get blown out.

agree, except philly’s d
was atrocious and we have no idea on 4th and 6 what would have happened.

none of what you said somehow removes goodell from feeling pressure from
cheating owners since 2006. no other league
does this

the point is goodell simply
does whatever he wants and literally will do anything to keep his job

spygate, deflatagate, 4th and 2 in indy, ellis hobbs in indy, chris jones in ot in 2013, gronk mauled in carolina in 2013.

could go on for days with the most inexplicable events affecting our team

kraft gets left out of the “special” meetings
that all 31 other owners attend ...he probably gets a completely seaparate intinerary from everyone else and arrrives a day later
not even knowing the approaches to change rules don’t even need a vote...wink wink...

just ridiculous

 

[Nehalem]

But doesn't Pereira diagree with you?

Mike Pereira‏Verified account @MikePereira Feb 4
I agree with the stands. It was close but the initial ruling dictated. Good for Riveron/Yurk to stay with the standard that it not obvious that the call was wrong. Slight movement of the ball and slight bobble but slight is not enough to overturn.

That is exactly what I thought at the time. Was I hoping Pats would get lucky and the TD be overturned sure. But I didn't expect it, and I wasn't really upset at the time.

Basically, if you have to watch a play 10 times in super slow motion to think it should be overturned. It doesn't deserve to be overturned.

 

[Nehalem]

I am not a fan of this phony, as he now seems hellbent in being a contrarian at Fox, where before he was a shill for any creepy Goodell-induced calls for many years, but he admits what I was predicting before the SB.

At least someone said it.

It was very suspicious that Goodell was publicly speaking about changing the catch rule in the offseason during the lead up to the SB, instead of saying something generic like "we'll see, but the rule is what it is in 2017/2018". The rule is very simple, clear and everyone should know it by now, even though the very rule itself was designed to put the onus on the receiver to show possession with 2 feet down. Clearly, Clement did not do this, as you can see space between his hands and his body when he finally corrals it in.

But, the entire officiating crew seemed almost brainwashed, mysteriously not knowing the catch rule and making comments that are pretty creepy. When you have the announcers both definitively acknowledging it as no catch, everyone in the room agrees, and then a clear replay does not call for an obvious over-turning of the TD, it smells. It smells as bad as the Dion Lewis "fumble" that was not a fumble in the title game, where the ref couldn't wait to call it a fumble. That's my point...It's fair to argue they call it a certain way to be clear, because they know a review is available. Sure, no problem. Fast game, hard to tell, etc.

But, this is orchestrated, institutionalized cheating that does not happen in any other sport.

"Anything close, Ron, favor the Pats opponent"......

Hmm.

I am not convinced all of Goodell's cheating approaches care done verbally, either. There has to be evidence on phones or emails.

If Brady had sued for defamation, I would imagine the entire league would have been brought to its knees, but I just don't know much longer the league can last with a known cheating commissioner like this.

It's just relentless. These are not your everyday "we were robbed!" on PI or holding calls or non-calls that all fanbases deal with, either. This is a reviewable thing were they failed to enforce a simple and clear rule.

So, in a nutshell, other teams' crap fundamental receivers ended up causing a demand to change the rule for calls being called correctly, only for a call to be ignored in the SB, to help Philly.

Super.

I wonder why ratings are tumbling?

Been saying this for about a decade now:

"One set of rules for 31 NFL teams. One special set for the NE Patriots.

Pereira thinks Goodell told Riveron to change his standard on replay reviews

Honestly I'm confused by your standards.

It seems you are saying that when a WR catches the ball and bobbles it slightly it doesn't count as possession.

But when a RB loses control of the ball, but then momentarily pins it to his knee, only to lose it when he goes to the ground, that does count possession.

 

[SilverSeven]

I'm more annoyed over the things we had control over and didn't do in this game to be honest. Not anything Philly or the refs did.

 

[Marko]

what is with the reading comprehension on this board? this is not why we lost.

i am asking why this league changes rules
due to collusion with other teams and because of their demands to do so? no other pro sports leagues are “managed” this way, so yes, it is creepy.

i can gaurantee you if james white made that play, it would have been over-turned. guarantee you.

watch enough of this league enough to know, this stuff (rule applications and changes
during a game or season), simply does not happen to other teams.

The league clearly responds to the idiots on social media. If Gronk made the Ertz play they would have to call it incomplete.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I'm not one to ever blame the refs, they're human, but I can blame Goodell, don't think he is.

 

[Tony2046]

The league clearly responds to the idiots on social media. If Gronk made the Ertz play they would have to call it incomplete.

No they wouldn't have. It was a clear TD. Not sure what Collingsworth was confused about except that he clearly doesn't understand the rule.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

No they wouldn't have. It was a clear TD. Not sure what Collingsworth was confused about except that he clearly doesn't understand the rule.

Yeah he didn't recognize the difference between catching and falling into the end zone and being a runner. Not Collingsworths best game, also not his worst ,.

 

[Tony2046]

Yeah he didn't recognize the difference between catching and falling into the end zone and being a runner. Not Collingsworths best game, also not his worst ,.

Pretty close though. My brother can't stand the guy and I'm usually "meh" on him but he was getting on my nerves that game. "Dude just stop talking".

 

[Jlaff]

If they called illegal formation, they would have scored anyways. If they reversed the Clement touchdown, they would have just scored anyways. Our defense was ****ing trash. It didn't matter. It could have been 4th and 66 and Jordan Richards would have went under that screen, ended up tackling the only other guy in the secondary who could have and was about to make a play on the receiver, and given up that massive play. The defense just sucked.

I just felt it was more realistic this way.

 

[supafly]

I’m not one to buy into the full blown conspiracy theories, but I can also understand the bias that may go into giving the underdog (or anti-NE team) the benefit of the doubt on borderline 50/50 calls. We’ve seen it before. It’s not terribly surprising.

That said, I honestly thought that the calls against us were acceptable enough that I’m not going to complain too much. I think any one of those 3 TDs in question could’ve gone the other way and that does piss me off, but ultimately, I think there were much bigger factors including the fact that Philly played a good game and we had no answer for most of what they were doing.

 

[supafly]

why was kevin benjamin’s td over-turned correctly if this clement td was not?

fans expecting clear
rules and consistency is something
we shouldn’t from a multi billion dollar operation?

possession with 2 feet down is clear as is surviving the ground. it is purely a black and white rule which leaves no room for ambiguity. that is how a rule should be.

perceived “gifts” for ne, on correctly ruled plays, followed by moronic outrage from people who don’t even know the rule, is what happened here.

saying the rule should be changed in a super bowl means it could be mild ******ation

I get your frustration, but these are subjective, opinionated rulings that could sometimes go either way. It’s not the exact science that we’d like it to be, even with split second frame-by-frame looks and rewinds.

We all believe that the ASJ, Benjamin, and Jesse James calls were called correctly, but we also all understand that any one of those could’ve had easily gone the other way. Unfortunately, there’s likely some luck involved and it sucks that our luck ran out last Sunday. When it’s “NE versus Everybody,” part of that is obviously the borderline calls and league office, and they just didn’t play well enough to overcome that thin margin of error.

We should’ve played well enough to blow them out by 14-17+, and the sad thing is that if it were a big MNF late-November regular season game we likely would have.