Mike Lombardi: "Be Patient with Mac Jones" (no need to rush)

[DropKickFlutie]

What are your expectations of winning. You see superbowl? Late playoff run?

This is just me but I think BB is hyper hyper competitive and wants to possibly win it all if he can. Got for it all. Really push it. Spent a ton of cash in free agency. He knows all the noise after Brady won a 7th. I think this is going to be super fun watching an elite defense and a game manager QB go for it every single week. This is not a developmental year for you guys. That's just my opinion.


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[Pats1971]

Yeah you have a lot of reasonable points. But this was one of multiple things. Zero tight ends last year. Crap WRs beyond Meyers. An OLine that was constantly injured, so many crappy backups starting last year. An OC who had no clue what play action was in the red zone. It wasn't just the time affected post-covid

Sounds like various years we have seen as pats fans, and still went to the playoffs. remember 06? We have not had TE's since gronk was playing and not injured. I am not saying the offense was all Cam's fault, but when a receiver is open, you cannot skip it at his feet, you cannot have people complainging about throwing mechanics when you have been in the league 10 years. I didnt expect 13-3 and a superbowl, but 7-9 and the worst offense in 30 years is not exceptable play. Look, I understand it, but to me Cam has never been the right QB for this team. This team relies on quick passing, pre snap reads, great accuracy, Cam has never been any of those things. He is a running Qb that needs a lot of time for receivers to get open, he does not throw them open, that is not what this offense has been, so its hard to fit this offense around a player of his skill type. Its not a bad good thing, I never thought he was right for this offense.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So you bring it up as a fact to support your agenda, get refuted by a direct article where Cam says there’s no symptoms, and then ask why we’re debating it? These are BS tactics.

View attachment 34848

We can speculate back and forth. Not sure why you feel it's definitive that him getting COVID-19 didn't mess up his season. He talked about it felt like the bus left the station while he was recovering.

Might Cam Newton’s poor performance lately have something to do with his COVID-19 diagnosis? - The Boston Globe

While COVID-19 has not yet been proven as a cause for brain fog, researchers have found there is a correlation between the two.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Sounds like various years we have seen as pats fans, and still went to the playoffs. remember 06? We have not had TE's since gronk was playing and not injured. I am not saying the offense was all Cam's fault, but when a receiver is open, you cannot skip it at his feet, you cannot have people complainging about throwing mechanics when you have been in the league 10 years. I didnt expect 13-3 and a superbowl, but 7-9 and the worst offense in 30 years is not exceptable play.

Cam definitely didn't help his case last year. If Cam doesn't play well in Sept'21 then there should be a QB change.
But yes I do remember 2006, it's a lot like 2019 and 2020 with the same oc, crap TE play and no receivers. A lot of parallels but this time no goat at QB to bail out the offense.

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[Pats1971]

This is just me but I think BB is hyper hyper competitive and wants to possibly win it all if he can. Got for it all. Really push it. Spent a ton of cash in free agency. He knows all the noise after Brady won a 7th. I think this is going to be super fun watching an elite defense and a game manager QB go for it every single week. This is not a developmental year for you guys. That's just my opinion.


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I didnt ask what BB's expectations are, I asked yours. Cam is not exactly a game manager QB. lol If that were the case Jones would be taking first team reps.

 

[Pats1971]

We can speculate back and forth. Not sure why you feel it's definitive that him getting COVID-19 didn't mess up his season. He talked about it felt like the bus left the station while he was recovering.

Might Cam Newton’s poor performance lately have something to do with his COVID-19 diagnosis? - The Boston Globe

While COVID-19 has not yet been proven as a cause for brain fog, researchers have found there is a correlation between the two.

www.bostonglobe.com

You are posting a media story. lol. People look for reasons. Unless Cam has had Covid the last 5 years, I doubt that was the reason. As I said, he didnt get better as the season went along, he got worse.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I didnt ask what BB's expectations are, I asked yours. Cam is not exactly a game manager QB. lol If that were the case Jones would be taking first team reps.

I expect the Pats to win while the media acts toxic and half the fan base is basically cheering for Cam to fail and for Mac to play. This team is contructed to go really far and possibly win it all, but will likely implode and self destruct via its toxic media and fanbase around the QB situation.

 

[Pats1971]

Cam definitely didn't help his case last year. If Cam doesn't play well in Sept'21 then there should be a QB change.
But yes I do remember 2006, it's a lot like 2019 and 2020 with the same oc, crap TE play and no receivers. A lot of parallels but this time no goat at QB to bail out the offense.

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I am not trying to be a **** here, even if it seems like that. There are people that Like certain players, and others not so much. I would never tell someone to not root for who you want. I want any Qb that comes here to do well, but I also have to be honest with my feelings on it. I would not think Cam is the right QB for this team even in his great days or good days. As I said, this is a pre snap read, pass guys open, move players into the best position, kind of Qb team, that is what won us a lot of games, and the team knows this and that is why people Wanted Mac because he reminded them of what was here when we won. Thats really it for me, I am not trying to say what is best, and I could for sure be wrong, I just have to give what I think on it.

 

[Pats1971]

I expect the Pats to win while the media acts toxic and half the fan base is basically cheering for Cam to fail and for Mac to play. This team is contructed to go really far and possibly win it all, but will likely implode and self destruct via its toxic media and fanbase around the QB situation.

So you really think that Cam can lead this team to a superbowl win? Ok, thats an opinion. I just have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that and that is even talking about years in which he was good. I saw him jump away from a fumble in a superbowl. I have seen him flat out not care before when things go bad. I do not think he has the heart to put it all out there to win a superbowl. Until I see different that is what I have to believe. I also think that if Bill believed that, he would not have drafted a first round QB, something he has never done in his career as a head coach.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So you really think that Cam can lead this team to a superbowl win? Ok, thats an opinion. I just have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that and that is even talking about years in which he was good. I saw him jump away from a fumble in a superbowl. I have seen him flat out not care before when things go bad. I do not think he has the heart to put it all out there to win a superbowl. Until I see different that is what I have to believe. I also think that if Bill believed that, he would not have drafted a first round QB, something he has never done in his career as a head coach.

That's ok. I'm not debating you on Mac, go back on the history on PatsFans I'm probably the first or second one pushing for him here. I think he's the best QB in the draft class.

Clearly we differ on Cam, I think Cam has some gas left in the tank and I think Bill wants to really go for it this year if he can. I'm not gonna defend Cam if he plays like last year, sure change QBs if it's not working. But don't you feel encouraged by how he literally just played ? He just played almost perfect and every player has their strenghts. The OC was lazy I think last year positioning him as only a runner. There was zero play action in the red zone. Look at how Cam plays. The guy loves passing to tight ends, needs play action, and also excels at 10-15 yard bullet passes.

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[Pats1971]

That's ok. I'm not debating you on Mac, go back on the history on PatsFans I'm probably the first or second one pushing for him here. I think he's the best QB in the draft class.

Clearly we differ on Cam, I think Cam has some gas left in the tank and I think Bill wants to really for it this year if he can. I'm not gonna defend Cam f he plays like last year, sure change QBs if it's not working. But don't you feel encouraged by how he literally just played ? He just played almost perfect and every player has their strenghts. The OC was lazy I think lazy year positioning him a only a runner. There was zero play action in the red zone. Look at how Cam plays. The guy loves passing to tight ends, needs play action, and also excels at 10-15 yard bullet passes.

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I do not bank much on preseason especially when the other team didnt play anything. Yeah if we can give him 4 or 5 seconds in the pocket, someone will get open, but I do not think we will see that again this year. I mean the Jets Qb looks like the second coming of Joe Namath. The one thing that seperates good Qbs and great QB's is consistency. Not doing something here or there, but doing it all the time. Cam's issue has always been consistency. He will look good at times and then he goes back to his bad habits. I mean here is his chance, there are no more excuses. I am ok with your opinion though, I dont want you to think I am trying to say you are full of **** or anything. You have every right to have an opinion on things just like I do. I mean I think we all have the same goal, I just think some have different ways of us getting there.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I do not bank much on preseason especially when the other team didnt play anything. Yeah if we can give him 4 or 5 seconds in the pocket, someone will get open, but I do not think we will see that again this year. I mean the Jets Qb looks like the second coming of Joe Namath. The one thing that seperates good Qbs and great QB's is consistency. Not doing something here or there, but doing it all the time. Cam's issue has always been consistency. He will look good at times and then he goes back to his bad habits. I mean here is his chance, there are no more excuses. I am ok with your opinion though, I dont want you to think I am trying to say you are full of **** or anything. You have every right to have an opinion on things just like I do. I mean I think we all have the same goal, I just think some have different ways of us getting there.

I would share your perspective if I were more skeptical of Cam. I just think the guy can surprise people this year. Feel good about this Pats roster and schedule and I'm gonna call it now, there will be some weird patsfan forum emotions from people as they grapple with being a Pats fan and winning versus their hate for Cam Newton.

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[tom444]

Fog would be a symptom.

Apparently, you didn't understand my post.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

>their hate for Cam Newton.

Cam is not deserving of hate. He is a good guy, a team player, a strong presence in the locker room. He works really hard, and if his god-given throwing ability is not optimal, it is not fault of his. He has done the best with what was given.

That being said, his throws seemed forced and there was little touch on his short throws. He does have some scrambling ability. Mac has a great natural arm, but I don't want to see him scramble.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: the thread title...

"But can we rush the quarterback?"

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Cam is not deserving of hate. He is a good guy, a team player, a strong presence in the locker room. He works really hard, and if his god-given throwing ability is not optimal, it is not fault of his. He has done the best with what was given.

That being said, his throws seemed forced and there was little touch on his short throws. He does have some scrambling ability. Mac has a great natural arm, but I don't want to see him scramble.

It was true in 1970 and it's true today, running quarterbacks break. You gain creative options short term, more chances to fool a D. That's it. A REAL QB can throw better, a running back can run better. Maybe you get the rare actual elite passer who can run. But that's not Cam. We've seen this fad 100 times. Michael Vick, Wildcat (where you flip it and pretend a RB is a QB,) RPO, blah blah blah. Stop it already.

Okay, we're going to look hidebound with our pocket QB for a couple of years with Mac Jones, and may he become as run-shy as TFB ever was (and as durable, if he's going to be running those sneaks LOL). Then everybody else will start moving off the highly mobile QB thing after giving the DCs conniptions, once the defenses catch up. Granted, the penalty won't be hospitalization given today's rules. But they'll find a way to counter the running QB exploit that's all the rage today.

I have one ask for a QB, and everything else is gravy: Can he pass quickly, accurately, INCLUDING the tough throws when the field shrinks in the rz?

I think the answer will be yes with Jones. Right now, it looks like Cam is actually able to do the job (except the TD passes) just not at regular season game speed (yet to be shown.) He can also make plays with his legs, and since he's a season rental, okay. And with our backs, I think we'll survive low passing TDs from him again, if he can up his general production and keep the int.s down.

Of course I'd love to see the future sooner than later (Mac) but I'm fine with handling the unveiling on BB's timeline.

 

[jdlboot14]

I am not trying to be a **** here, even if it seems like that. There are people that Like certain players, and others not so much. I would never tell someone to not root for who you want. I want any Qb that comes here to do well, but I also have to be honest with my feelings on it. I would not think Cam is the right QB for this team even in his great days or good days. As I said, this is a pre snap read, pass guys open, move players into the best position, kind of Qb team, that is what won us a lot of games, and the team knows this and that is why people Wanted Mac because he reminded them of what was here when we won. Thats really it for me, I am not trying to say what is best, and I could for sure be wrong, I just have to give what I think on it.

I agree. My biggest reason for wanting to get Mac started earlier in the season is that this is a team and fan base and organization that really needs a fresh new start. Everyone knows Cam is not the natural fit, or long term fit for this team. He's been a solid veteran presence for the throw-away year in '20. But, when you lose a 20-year fixture and star, you don't really want damaged goods on the tail end of their career. Teams who draft high 1st round QB's are looking to re-set the franchise. It's more than X's & O's. This is a kid who has the pedigree, who has shown the tools (although brief and preseason). And it's just the situation where most fans are ready to turn the page and run with a homegrown guy.

 

[Ring 6]

Why are we arguing that he did or didn't have covid fog? I've literally seen colleagues post-covid not even be able to pronounce words correctly for months. It's a thing. Why debate it as if we know or don't know how it affected Cam Newton ?

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Because he said he didn’t and showed no effects. Let’s say he experienced temporary blindness on pass plays, it’s equally as valid.

 

[Zuma]

I would share your perspective if I were more skeptical of Cam. I just think the guy can surprise people this year. Feel good about this Pats roster and schedule and I'm gonna call it now, there will be some weird patsfan forum emotions from people as they grapple with being a Pats fan and winning versus their hate for Cam Newton.

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The Cam hate is strong. I hope a year removed from the fog and having more weapons will allow him to succeed. I’m all in for Mac anyway but just want the team to win with whoever is at QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah you have a lot of reasonable points. But this was one of multiple things. Zero tight ends last year. Crap WRs beyond Meyers. An OLine that was constantly injured, so many crappy backups starting last year. An OC who had no clue what play action was in the red zone. It wasn't just the time affected post-covid

You are overlooking the fact that the worst piece of the team was how the QB played. Sure he would make more plays if he has better weapons but he still stinks. Why not let those weapons have a legitimate qb who can process professions, read a defense, throw on time and throw accurately.
Your argument amounts to if last years qb was Nathan Peterman, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell or Josh Rosen, they should start this year.