Mayo negotiations + OC interviews next week

[venecol]

Bill has a NUMBER of ways to keep Patricia gainfully employed with the Pats and out of range of the ire (justly or unjustly) of the fans and media.

He already has some Front Office experience helping with contracts, personnel, and scouting. If the new Ernie Adams isn't his gig, he can be the new Nick Casserio. A front office guy who can come out and do some coaching during camp. I'm thinking a "special projects" guy. A combination of Ernie Adams crunching numbers on out of the box angles. Scouting, coaching, and a voice to bill from the box. Another pair of hands, but one who isn't involved with day to day, moment to moment grind that exists during the season..

I think he'd be good at it.

If Bill is smart and not stubborn, he'll put Patricia as far away from Foxboro as humanly possible. He'd just be a daily reminder of what a fiasco Bill's decision was to hire him.

 

[patfanken]

If Bill is smart and not stubborn, he'll put Patricia as far away from Foxboro as humanly possible. He'd just be a daily reminder of what a fiasco Bill's decision was to hire him.

Buddy, this is you just being red assed about the way the offense worked this year.

Why WOULDN'T Bill have hired Patricia after he was let go by the Lions. So what that he didn't succeed as a HC. Do you think that re-hiring Josh was a huge mistake 3 superbowls later?

Patricia had been a VERY good assistant for over 15 YEARS of proven service to this organization. He ran 2 superbowl winning defenses, didn't he? So it made EMINENT sense that Bill hire him back.

I guess the point I've been trying to make is that I don't understand this vitriolic hatred of Matt Patricia. He was a guy who was asked to hold the fort (along with the 6 offensive coaches). He was asked to step out of his comfort zone and do the best he could with what assets he had. And he took the slings and arrows of being the FOCUS of all the disappointment in the offense with more grace than any of the haters here have. Just makes him a failed OC (if that was what he actually was).

I believe he was put into that awkward situation by Bill because Bill thought they could get by until BOB got here. Bill was wrong. Matt was just the guy who was told to lead the charge and break down the castle gate. Tough job and he died trying to do it. The point is Bill didn't HIRE him to be the OC. He was asked to step and fill in until BOB gets here.

Hate Bill for making a long term decision that YOU hate, short term. Let's see how it ULTIMATELY works out. Bill is betting the end of his legacy (3-4 years) that it works out.

 

[archstanton543]

I believe he was put into that awkward situation by Bill because Bill thought they could get by until BOB got here.

You can believe that all you want. There's no evidence to support it.

 

[Ring 6]

You can believe that all you want. There's no evidence to support it.

Sure there is

 

[venecol]

Sure there is

You have the video?

 

[archstanton543]

Sure there is

Okay. Present it please.

 

[venecol]

Buddy, this is you just being red assed about the way the offense worked this year.

Why WOULDN'T Bill have hired Patricia after he was let go by the Lions. So what that he didn't succeed as a HC. Do you think that re-hiring Josh was a huge mistake 3 superbowls later?

Patricia had been a VERY good assistant for over 15 YEARS of proven service to this organization. He ran 2 superbowl winning defenses, didn't he? So it made EMINENT sense that Bill hire him back.

I guess the point I've been trying to make is that I don't understand this vitriolic hatred of Matt Patricia. He was a guy who was asked to hold the fort (along with the 6 offensive coaches). He was asked to step out of his comfort zone and do the best he could with what assets he had. And he took the slings and arrows of being the FOCUS of all the disappointment in the offense with more grace than any of the haters here have. Just makes him a failed OC (if that was what he actually was).

I believe he was put into that awkward situation by Bill because Bill thought they could get by until BOB got here. Bill was wrong. Matt was just the guy who was told to lead the charge and break down the castle gate. Tough job and he died trying to do it. The point is Bill didn't HIRE him to be the OC. He was asked to step and fill in until BOB gets here.

Hate Bill for making a long term decision that YOU hate, short term. Let's see how it ULTIMATELY works out. Bill is betting the end of his legacy (3-4 years) that it works out.

Yea, I don't care about Patricia's feelings. He's a grown ass man. I'm talking about Patricia hanging around. There may be issues between Mac and Patricia. If we are going to proceed w/ Mac, then imo we should move on from Patricia.

I do appreciate, being a former coach, you always riding to the defense of the coaches. I'm a players man. Coaches coach, players play. I watch football for the players not the coaches.

 

[venecol]

Okay. Present it please.

He must've read Triumph's top secret file.

 

[Ring 6]

You have the video?

Video of what somebody thought? You off your meds?

 

[Ring 6]

Okay. Present it please.

OBrien was at Alabama with a year left under contract.
He moved around coaches already under contract to split up the OC duties.
As soon as OBriens contract was up he came in and was pretty much immediately hired as OC.
Pretty compelling evidence that he wanted OBrien and made temporary moves to fill the holes while waiting for him to be available.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You can believe that all you want. There's no evidence to support it.

Agreed. But it is funny that BB almost always had a professional and knowledgeable OC through the years, and then he all of a sudden changed in 2022. Not like Bill, Bill rarely changes, Bill is stubborn. So there is no evidence to support it, like you say, but it is out of character for Bill to go forward without a professional OC. If BOB was expected to show up in 2023, it is possible Patricia and Judge were seen as a "bridge year" and then it all went bad.

When trying to connect dots with no evidence to support the connection, it is useful to look for a pattern based on history. In this case Patricia and Judge might have been seen as a bridge, might. But one thing is for sure, they were seen to be very cheap. So who historically is cheap and likes to save money? Kraft. So hiring Patricia and Judge, non-experienced, is not what BB has done for the majority of the last 20 years, but it is possible that Kraft liked the 1 year bridge idea because it saved him $10M+. It is also curious that Bill complained about Kraft's spending, which again is an example of Bill being consistent with years past. Bill has been known to defend himself by deflecting, and this is a truthful deflection. Kraft didn't want to pay anyone if he could avoid it, so we went with Patricia and Judge.

It kind of makes sense based on historical patterns, but there is no evidence.

 

[archstanton543]

OBrien was at Alabama with a year left under contract.
He moved around coaches already under contract to split up the OC duties.
As soon as OBriens contract was up he came in and was pretty much immediately hired as OC.
Pretty compelling evidence that he wanted OBrien and made temporary moves to fill the holes while waiting for him to be available.

That's circumstantial evidence, at best. Do you have a report with BB saying he was waiting a year for BoB to come back and Matt and Judge were stopgaps? BB said "If it doesn't work out, blame me" meaning he expected it to succeed or at least not be the train wreck it ended up being.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed. But it is funny that BB almost always had a professional and knowledgeable OC through the years, and then he all of a sudden changed in 2022. Not like Bill, Bill rarely changes, Bill is stubborn. So there is no evidence to support it, like you say, but it is out of character for Bill to go forward without a professional OC. If BOB was expected to show up in 2023, it is possible Patricia and Judge were seen as a "bridge year" and then it all went bad.

When trying to connect dots with no evidence to support the connection, it is useful to look for a pattern based on history. In this case Patricia and Judge might have been seen as a bridge, might. But one thing is for sure, they were seen to be very cheap. So who historically is cheap and likes to save money? Kraft. So hiring Patricia and Judge, non-experienced, is not what BB has done for the majority of the last 20 years, but it is possible that Kraft liked the 1 year bridge idea because it saved him $10M+. It is also curious that Bill complained about Kraft's spending, which again is an example of Bill being consistent with years past. Bill has been known to defend himself by deflecting, and this is a truthful deflection. Kraft didn't want to pay anyone if he could avoid it, so we went with Patricia and Judge.

It kind of makes sense based on historical patterns, but there is no evidence.

The evidence is that as soon as BOBs contract was up and the Patriots season was over he sprinted to Foxboro to take the job.

 

[archstanton543]

The evidence is that ass soon as BOBs contract as up and the Patriots season was over he sprinted to Foxboro to take the job.

So did Caley. Granted, he didn't have that far to run. People leave teams when they get a promotion and not just when their contract is up. If BoB was "The Guy" he could have interviewed and gotten hired last year.

 

[Ring 6]

That's circumstantial evidence, at best. Do you have a report with BB saying he was waiting a year for BoB to come back and Matt and Judge were stopgaps? BB said "If it doesn't work out, blame me" meaning he expected it to succeed or at least not be the train wreck it ended up being.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence.
How well he expected the short term solution to work out has nothing to do with the fact it was a short term solution.

He has said directly, or implicitly that every decision made in NE since he arrived is his blame if it doesn’t work. Or do you want to list the things he blamed in other people and said he wasn’t responsible for?

Do you have report with BB saying Patricia is permanently in the role?

 

[Stu Pidassle]

MP and JJ were put in bad positions. The fact that they failed is not the problem, they can be moved to other positions that are better suited to their expertise. If they attempted to push their failures onto others because they were too thin skinned or were not open to input from the players they should be gone. For example compare BOB's statements about getting help learning the Alabama offense with JJ being upset that Mac said they would learn from each other shows how real leaders act.

 

[Ring 6]

So did Caley. Granted, he didn't have that far to run. People leave teams when they get a promotion and not just when their contract is up. If BoB was "The Guy" he could have interviewed and gotten hired last year.

He could have, but he chose to finish out his contract at Alabama.
Are you honestly telling me that you think that when BB talked to BOB last year BOB said he would love to come to NE and BB said “nah, I think we are better with Judge coaching the QB, Patricia callling the plays, and no coordinator”?

 

[archstanton543]

Circumstantial evidence is evidence.
How well he expected the shower term solution to work out has nothing to do with the fact it was a short term solution.

He has said directly, or implicitly that every decision made in NE since he arrived is his blame if it doesn’t work. Or do you want to list the things he blamed in other people and said he wasn’t responsible for?

Do you have report with BB saying Patricia is permanently in the role?

Leaps of logic are not evidence either.

Well, I have the report that Patricia was the OL coach and senior football advisor. I also have 17 game's worth of footage of him calling the offensive plays. For 2022, Matt was the de facto "permanent" offensive coordinator. In 2023, the team removed him from that role and hired BoB.

Nothing, especially coach's jobs, are permanent in the NFL.

 

[archstanton543]

He could have, but he chose to finish out his contract at Alabama.
Are you honestly telling me that you think that when BB talked to BOB last year BOB said he would love to come to NE and BB said “nah, I think we are better with Judge coaching the QB, Patricia callling the plays, and no coordinator”?

Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. I don't know. Neither do you.

Saying this was a 4D chess move by BB based on no evidence is ridiculous.

 

[Ring 6]

Leaps of logic are not evidence either.

Well, I have the report that Patricia was the OL coach and senior football advisor. I also have 17 game's worth of footage of him calling the offensive plays. For 2022, Matt was the de facto "permanent" offensive coordinator. In 2023, the team removed him from that role and hired BoB.

Nothing, especially coach's jobs, are permanent in the NFL.

Nothing you say here conflicts with it being a stopgap because the guy belichick wanted to running the offense wasn’t available.