Matt Gutierrez

[ClevTrev]

I tend to go along with patchick's view. There is a fair amount of history of the Pats keeping a 'project' QB on the 53 roster. If they kept Davey, as obvious as it was that he couldn't ever be an NFL QB, I'd think Gutierrez has a pretty fair shot at the 53 if he shows decently in trianing camp.

The Patriots always keep QB bodies in training camp to reduce the reps of Brady, so Gutierrez should have a good chance to show what he can do.

Agreed. Gutierrez will get his chance in training camp. Patchick's comments are valuable in that they give us a sense of his potential. If there is anything there the Pats feel they can develop, I believe he has a great shot at the 53, but they need to see him for a full training camp first.

Cassel appears to have shown the team that he's a capable #2 at this point in his career. He'll get solid playing time in the preseason games to cement his place. There's no reason why Gutierrez shouldn't become the next development project as the #3 QB if he proves worthy. No need for concern with this position, the Pats cover now, near-term (emergency), and long-term with these 3 guys.

 

[BelichickFan]

In addition to getting Brady his work with the new guys, I would think they'll really try to get Cassel a lot of preseason time to hopefully impress - the best scenario is to be able to get something decent for Cassel this coming offseason with Gutierrez as his heir apparent for the "young, developing QB behind Brady" role. Unfortunately, as others have said, getting Gutierrez on the practice squad could be tricky which leaves the option of Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez - I kind of like a midseason signing of Vinny as a playoff precaution.

Perfect, though unlikely, scenario for me is some QB gets hurt this preseason, we trade Cassel there and go with Brady, Vinny, Gutierrez while picking up a decent pick (late day one, early day two) for Cassel. More likely, Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez and we re-visit trading Cassel in 10 months.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

In addition to getting Brady his work with the new guys, I would think they'll really try to get Cassel a lot of preseason time to hopefully impress - the best scenario is to be able to get something decent for Cassel this coming offseason with Gutierrez as his heir apparent for the "young, developing QB behind Brady" role. Unfortunately, as others have said, getting Gutierrez on the practice squad could be tricky which leaves the option of Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez - I kind of like a midseason signing of Vinny as a playoff precaution.

Perfect, though unlikely, scenario for me is some QB gets hurt this preseason, we trade Cassel there and go with Brady, Vinny, Gutierrez while picking up a decent pick (late day one, early day two) for Cassel. More likely, Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez and we re-visit trading Cassel in 10 months.

You're insane... Vinny was here to take a knee - or a shot at a career ending record. If Brady went down this season and we had a developmental QB and Vinny to turn to, season over despite Belioli assembling the most talented WR corps in Brady's (not to mention Belioli's) career here. Cassel isn't going anywhere this year for that reason. And he won't go anywhere next season either unless the new Matt shows substantial promise, because even then we are looking at a potentially more costly (in order to be legitimately effective) veteran QB once again as a need position taking up a roster spot.

BB won't trade Cassel for anything that doesn't exponentially trump peace of mind at the backup QB position in 2007 or 2008. Because that peace of mind has tremendous value in and of itself.

 

[BelichickFan]

You're insane... Vinny was here to take a knee - or a shot at a career ending record. If Brady went down this season and we had a developmental QB and Vinny to turn to, season over despite Belioli assembling the most talented WR corps in Brady's (not to mention Belioli's) career here. Cassel isn't going anywhere this year for that reason.

You might well be right - but if Brady got hurt before a playoff game, I would have as much confidence in Vinny as I would in Cassel - and I like Cassel but with his almost non existent experience at any level above high school, he's more upside than solid, sure thing at this point.

 

[cstjohn17]

Cassel appears to have shown the team that he's a capable #2 at this point in his career. He'll get solid playing time in the preseason games to cement his place. There's no reason why Gutierrez shouldn't become the next development project as the #3 QB if he proves worthy. No need for concern with this position, the Pats cover now, near-term (emergency), and long-term with these 3 guys.

Don't forget Troy Brown as the emergency QB.

 

[patchick]

We discuss these assumptions every year. Please produce a list of all rookies that we have put on our Pracice Squad that have been snapped up by other teams. This is a very, very short list.

It's a short list, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophesy. If the team likes a guy enough to worry about him making it to the PS, they simply keep him.

Every year there's a longshot nobody who looks better than we all imagined, and every year he bumps off a better known player to end up on the roster. Could Cassel or even Pierre Woods have been "safely" released to spend the year on the PS? Total conjecture, but my guess is no way.

Now, do I worry about a Mike Elgin on the PS? No, I do not. I worry most about the guys who have prototype physical skills at hard-to-fill positions, but had big question marks over their heads at draft time...question marks that get addressed positively in camp. Woods and Cassel fit the bill perfectly. Gutierrez has the first half down, we just have to wait and see how well he answers the questions.

 

[patsgo]

It's a short list, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophesy. If the team likes a guy enough to worry about him making it to the PS, they simply keep him.

Every year there's a longshot nobody who looks better than we all imagined, and every year he bumps off a better known player to end up on the roster. Could Cassel or even Pierre Woods have been "safely" released to spend the year on the PS? Total conjecture, but my guess is no way.

Now, do I worry about a Mike Elgin on the PS? No, I do not. I worry most about the guys who have prototype physical skills at hard-to-fill positions, but had big question marks over their heads at draft time...question marks that get addressed positively in camp. Woods and Cassel fit the bill perfectly. Gutierrez has the first half down, we just have to wait and see how well he answers the questions.

what would give you the impression some other team would take him? what has he done to this date that makes you think hes some hot commonity?most other teams will have had qbs in their system, and i doubt they would cut them for guierrez, i bet you sad the same thing about bramlett and kings bury

 

[patfanken]

In addition to getting Brady his work with the new guys, I would think they'll really try to get Cassel a lot of preseason time to hopefully impress - the best scenario is to be able to get something decent for Cassel this coming offseason with Gutierrez as his heir apparent for the "young, developing QB behind Brady" role. Unfortunately, as others have said, getting Gutierrez on the practice squad could be tricky which leaves the option of Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez - I kind of like a midseason signing of Vinny as a playoff precaution.

Perfect, though unlikely, scenario for me is some QB gets hurt this preseason, we trade Cassel there and go with Brady, Vinny, Gutierrez while picking up a decent pick (late day one, early day two) for Cassel. More likely, Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez and we re-visit trading Cassel in 10 months.

I don't think your scenerio is correct, but its no far from the truth. Cassel is on the fast track to somewhere else because he'll be a FA at the end of next year. However HE is the second best QB on the team, and I don't think a first say selection is enough of a temptation to risk an entire season, especially the way QBs go down these days.

I think you are right about Gutierrez though, but he's a few years away from being an NFL QB. He looks the part and may even have the skills, but QB is a production position, and even at Idaho, his production wasn't great.

Here is what I think will happen. There are a number of experienced QBs still out there, so I think Gutierrez will be safe on the PS. The Pats will go into the first game with 2 QBs on the roster. There are just to many good players on this roster to give one up to a guy who will never play. What they will do is they will have Vinnie standing by the phone just in case there is an injury, but THIS year more than ever, they aren't going give up that roster spot to a #3 QB

For training camp I'm pretty sure they are going to bring in a 4th arm, just to keep everyone's arm fresh, who knows I know Kliff Kingsbury isn't doing anything. During the season Gutierez will be the 3rd arm for practices

 

[zippo59]

BTW, the Patriots signed Gutierrez to a two year deal with a 10,000 dollar signing bonus.

 

[TeamPats]

You might well be right - but if Brady got hurt before a playoff game, I would have as much confidence in Vinny as I would in Cassel - and I like Cassel but with his almost non existent experience at any level above high school, he's more upside than solid, sure thing at this point.

I think the biggest reason Vinny was brought in before the Playoffs was not as our new # 2 when it counted, but rather it was becoming increasingly clear that Cassel could not account for #2 duties as well as Scout duties. BB realized that after Thanksgiving, when the games really count, the Scout QB is likely even MORE important then the # 2 QB. Testeverde came in to handle these duties. I expect to see something similar again this year where we bring in a Veteran towards the end of the year to handle these duties, if we have Guiterrez as our # 3 we would have to give these duties to him or Cassel come Winter time and I just don't know if they have the experience to handle this very important role.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You might well be right - but if Brady got hurt before a playoff game, I would have as much confidence in Vinny as I would in Cassel - and I like Cassel but with his almost non existent experience at any level above high school, he's more upside than solid, sure thing at this point.

Based on the last few seasons I would have no confidence in Vinny but I would at least be hopeful with Cassel based on among other things his age and pedigree, the way he performed in his one and only shot at playing a top defense in the regular season with a cast of backups surrounding him, and the fact that BB moved him up the ladder PDQ. I tend to trust what my eyes tell me. This kid is an above average backup at worst, and Vinny is now a below average backup at best. The last time Vinny had substantial exposure to an NFL defense (2005), they took his lunch money and kicked sand all over him. He's a good guy and a veteran presence, but he was never exceptional in his career, just a reasonably consistent presence. He's thrown for a lot of yards in 20 years, compiling almost as many INT's along the way as TD's. He's topped 100 in QB rating once in his career, and hit 90 once - but that was a long time ago. And at 44 he's toast in actual game situations. He is what he is - a #3 veteran presence is you care to carry that as opposed to say a 4th string anything else.

 

[tedylb]

Besides what I read here on his HS & college stats, what can you tell me about this kid? What are his intangibles? Is he a leader? Does he have Brady's confidence? Is he smart? What do the scouts & his college coaches say about his strengths & weaknesses? Thanks.

 

[patchick]

what would give you the impression some other team would take him? what has he done to this date that makes you think hes some hot commonity?most other teams will have had qbs in their system, and i doubt they would cut them for guierrez, i bet you sad the same thing about bramlett and kings bury

Bramlet and Kingsbury? Slander! Come on, I've got eyes, they looked like scrubs. Cassel is the only QB they've picked up since Brady who looked the part on the practice field.

As for Gutierrez, I've tried to make clear that I don't think he has done or proven or earned a darned thing. My point was just that IF a young QB looks good, I think the Pats will make room for him on the 53 rather than releasing him with hopes of signing him to the practice squad. That's what they did with Brady and Cassel, and the timing is right for a new young developmental QB. In other words, to quote myself from earlier in the thread:

"I'd say Gutierrez has a much clearer path to the 53 than a lot of the guys drafted above him."

Will he make it happen? Remains to be seen.

 

[PatsFan37]

BTW, the Patriots signed Gutierrez to a two year deal with a 10,000 dollar signing bonus.

The Boston Globe reported on July 3rd that "Cassell accepted a four-year, $1.439 million deal, including a $54,000 signing bonus." Cassell's 2005 cap charge will be $243,500.

The year of the contract isn't given, but since it runs through 2008 and he was drafted in the 7th round in 2005, that must have been July 3, 2005.
It sounds high for an initial signing of a 7th round pick, but what do I know. By comparison, it would seem the coaching staff had more confidence in Cassel than they have in Gutierrez, to wring a 4-year contract out of a 7th round pick.

Gutierrez will just have to go out there this summer and show them he's better than they think.

 

[spacecrime]

- BB kept Brady as a 4th quarterback rather than expose him to the PS

Well, don't forget BB started that season with only 51 players. Makes it easy to carry a guy with potential when you have the roster spot.

I think it more likely that Gutierrez will get Kingsbury Elbow than go on the practice squad because, like you, I think Gutierrez is a keeper.

 

[PatsFan37]

Here's an article on Gutierrez that got me thinking about what they see in him. Aside from the chance that Gutierrez becomes an NFL quality QB, and on that I'll defer to folks like Patchick who followed him before the draft ... but there's another way to look at his qualifications.

Backup QB's play an important role besides preparing to step in for Brady. They learn the entire offense, help train the receivers, tight ends and backs, and run the scout team. During the game, 'carrying the clipboard' is not a job for a ball boy. A backup QB is another set of eyes and ears for the star, seeing what's happening on the field through the eyes of a player. Look at the sidelines during a game and you'll see Brady talking not just to McDaniels and Belichick but also to Cassel.

So what are the requirements for this guy? First, it's a good thing if he hasn't spent his entire college career as the star, homecoming king and BMOC, suddenly to arrive in the NFL carrying someone else's pads to the locker room. Apparently, Gutierrez handled backup duties with class, just like ALL of the other Patriots QB's. And like them, he's smart and has character and the right measurables.

For a guy to make it as an NFL QB, first he has to make it as an NFL backup with intelligence and humility.

 

[spacecrime]

i bet you sad the same thing about bramlett and kings bury

??? BB didn't dare chance putting Kingsbury on the Practice Squad. Kingsbury got a mysterious injury and BB put him on IR.

When we cut him, he was picked up by another team (53 man roster, not practice squad), and did a stint with the Jets when they had two QB injuries.

A couple years ago people were saying to put Cassel on the practice squad, also, if you recall.

 

[Pats726]

??? BB didn't dare chance putting Kingsbury on the Practice Squad. Kingsbury got a mysterious injury and BB put him on IR.

When we cut him, he was picked up by another team (53 man roster, not practice squad), and did a stint with the Jets when they had two QB injuries.

A couple years ago people were saying to put Cassel on the practice squad, also, if you recall.

I believe in 04 after he was cut it was NO that had him on the PSqd as a 3rd QB...I am also sure he was on a 53 with some team after that... he has an arm but the other qualities he was lacking even with time...Some did say to put Cassel on it..but I thought as many others did that it, was IR or the 53..
It's a growing concern with MattG..maybe similarly. If he shows a LOT I agree, he may have a clearer path to the 53..and if they like him long term, IR or 53...makes sense.
What I have read about him is that he's a leader--works hard studies teh game..has the intangibles. The weaknesses..only a 1 year starter..not a great athlete or a QB that makes a lot of deep throws..

 

[patchick]

??? BB didn't dare chance putting Kingsbury on the Practice Squad. Kingsbury got a mysterious injury and BB put him on IR.

When we cut him, he was picked up by another team (53 man roster, not practice squad), and did a stint with the Jets when they had two QB injuries.

When have the Pats under BB ever cut a young QB then signed him to the PS? Not saying it hasn't happened, just can't think of one. J.T. O'Sullivan did a short stint on the PS but was signed straight to it from the street.

Given how valuable an extra QB can be for game prep, it's interesting and maybe revealing how seldom the Pats keep one around off-roster.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Whither old friend Major Applewhite...?

Would anyone have guessed--OC for Nick Saban at Bama?

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/sports/070405/applewhite.shtml

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/NE/5388146