Mark Daniels on the fall of Mac Jones

[venecol]

Injuries on the OL hurt. But Sow, Onwenu, Strange & Andrews all look like good picks. I'm not sure about Mafi.

I also think the OL looked horrible because of the QB who was abysmal. That makes a huge difference.

When Zappe went in, the OL looked so much better.

I think you're a bit in denial about what went down in New England the last couple of years. The reports on Belichick re: JuJu came out before we knew JuJu was a bust. But all the backstabbing and internal dysfunction about coaches who new Mayo was taking over, the front office sending their agent in to stir the pot, altered game plans, how much more evidence do you need?

Dude give it up. Nobody cares. We're moving on to Mayo and the rest of the offseason.

Start a podcast or something. Lol

 

[203Pat]

In 6 games as a starter Zappe averaged 1 TD and slightly over 1 interception and 185 yards passing a game with a 75.7 passer rating.

In 11 games as a starter Mac averaged slightly under 1 TD and slightly over 1 interception and 192 yards passing a game with a 77 passer rating.

Not sure in what world that makes Zappe "100x better". They both sucked. One just looked slightly more athletic while being sucky.

 

[h0c2000]

Thanks to whomever modified the title to include Mark in front of Daniels. Every time I saw this thread my brain went to Daniel Jones on the fall of Mac jones and I'd think, yep Daniel knows a thing or two about a fall.

 

[Rob0729]

Injuries on the OL hurt. But Sow, Onwenu, Strange & Andrews all look like good picks. I'm not sure about Mafi.

I also think the OL looked horrible because of the QB who was abysmal. That makes a huge difference.

When Zappe went in, the OL looked so much better.

I think you're a bit in denial about what went down in New England the last couple of years. The reports on Belichick re: JuJu came out before we knew JuJu was a bust. But all the backstabbing and internal dysfunction about coaches who new Mayo was taking over, the front office sending their agent in to stir the pot, altered game plans, how much more evidence do you need?

The o-line got better with Zappe because they were healthy. But that was very short lived. That was part of the reason why Zappe had so many INTs the last two or three games (and could have a lot more). The difference between Zappe and Mac when the line broke down early is that Jones was so shell shocked that he would panic. Zappe didn't panic, but it didn't stop him from making stupid throws. It just was

But if you look at the games, the offense except in a few rare halves of games was the same mess under Zappe as it was with Mac Jones. That is why Zappe had 6 TDs and 9 INTs this season. But even with Zappe's two very good halves in his entire time playing, Mac had more halves like that but just spread out over a longer part of the season. I mean the second half of the Eagles game and the first Bills games were examples of Jones playing really well.

You are going to tell me that Belichick knew JuJu was going to be a bust, signed him anyway and expected him to have a huge role because he wanted to be a team player and go along with his front office? Bill Belichick?

And there was back stabbing and disfunction with the coaching staff in 2022. Not just this past season. No one knew Mayo was taking over in 2022.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Hopkins got over a 1,000 yards with no QB. He could have made a difference. Six o-line picks in two years and the Pats still had one of the worst o-lines in the NFL last year. And Zappe was just as awful as Jones. He just wasn't a head case. He was just not talented enough or could read defenses to be a decent starter.

And how do you really know that JuJu wasn't Belichick's call? He owns it either way. You cannot have final say in all personnel decisions and then say he was overruled on the moves that didn't work out. If you listen to the pro-Belichick crowd, he was forced to take Jones, he wanted to keep Meyers but was overruled, and he didn't want JuJu but listened to the analytics (even though the Patriots don't use analytics and Belichick is on the record several times saying analytics in evaluating players is bunk). I am sure that guys like Judon and Barmore were 100% Belichick's decision though.

Jones owns his failures, but stop acting like this team did what bad teams do when they ruin young QBs. Every single thing you shouldn't do with a young QB, they did.

The story isn't he was overruled, it's that he was talked into it and eventually they convinced him.

 

[upstater1]

The o-line got better with Zappe because they were healthy. But that was very short lived. That was part of the reason why Zappe had so many INTs the last two or three games (and could have a lot more). The difference between Zappe and Mac when the line broke down early is that Jones was so shell shocked that he would panic. Zappe didn't panic, but it didn't stop him from making stupid throws. It just was

But if you look at the games, the offense except in a few rare halves of games was the same mess under Zappe as it was with Mac Jones. That is why Zappe had 6 TDs and 9 INTs this season. But even with Zappe's two very good halves in his entire time playing, Mac had more halves like that but just spread out over a longer part of the season. I mean the second half of the Eagles game and the first Bills games were examples of Jones playing really well.

You are going to tell me that Belichick knew JuJu was going to be a bust, signed him anyway and expected him to have a huge role because he wanted to be a team player and go along with his front office? Bill Belichick?

And there was back stabbing and disfunction with the coaching staff in 2022. Not just this past season. No one knew Mayo was taking over in 2022.

I don't think this is true. Zappe had that healthy line only against LA and Pitt. Strange got hurt early in the KC game so the last 4 games he played were without Strange and Brown. I don't think Zappe is good. I'm making the point that he didn't take many sacks, he didn't wilt, he moved around the pocket well.

As for JuJu I am saying that before the season, Callahan reported that Belichick wanted to retain Jakobi but went along with the pro scouts (Wolf) who was making an analytics argument. Callahan cast that decision as Belichick going along with it because Kraft made it clear 2 years earlier that Belichick would have to be more collaborative. Then there's the Mac Jones situation prior to the season where BB wanted to trade him

 

[venecol]

More BS from this upstater guy. Who would know best, Callahan or Meyers who was in the room with Bill?

.As for JuJu I am saying that before the season, Callahan reported that Belichick wanted to retain Jakobi but went along with the pro scouts (Wolf) who was making an analytics argument. Callahan cast that decision as Belichick going along with it because Kraft made it clear 2 years earlier that Belichick would have to be more collaborative.

"They just wouldn't budge," Meyers said. "At the end of the day, he (Belichick) didn't want to move. And I respect it. Like, it's his job to do what's best for his team or what he thinks is best for the team. It just didn't align with what I felt like I was worth."

Now, doesn't this sound like 100% Bill?

Meyers: Pats ‘wouldn't budge' over $1M difference from Raiders' offer

Former Patriots wide receiver Jakobi Meyers explains what went wrong in New England and why he’s enjoying his experience with the Raiders more.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[VrabelJr]

The story isn't he was overruled, it's that he was talked into it and eventually they convinced him.

Good thing we got rid of those idiots! Right? Right?

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't think this is true. Zappe had that healthy line only against LA and Pitt. Strange got hurt early in the KC game so the last 4 games he played were without Strange and Brown. I don't think Zappe is good. I'm making the point that he didn't take many sacks, he didn't wilt, he moved around the pocket well.

As for JuJu I am saying that before the season, Callahan reported that Belichick wanted to retain Jakobi but went along with the pro scouts (Wolf) who was making an analytics argument. Callahan cast that decision as Belichick going along with it because Kraft made it clear 2 years earlier that Belichick would have to be more collaborative. Then there's the Mac Jones situation prior to the season where BB wanted to trade him

If someone can’t see with their own eyes that Zappe outplayed Mac with an inferior OL, RB, and receivers then there is no writing that can help them.

 

[archstanton543]

If someone can’t see with their own eyes that Zappe outplayed Mac with an inferior OL, RB, and receivers then there is no writing that can help them.

The numbers don't bear that out. Zappe looked better. He had more poise but their overall results were about the same.

 

[upstater1]

The numbers don't bear that out. Zappe looked better. He had more poise but their overall results were about the same.

Stats are so meaningless given the variability of the opponent, game situation, and even when you play (playing in warm weather versus a snow game in January).

For instance, I thought Mac Jones was horrible in the 1st Phins game, but he had good stats. The very next week, he had terrible stats against the Jets, but for once, he played great. He moved around the pocket, he stood in there and got hit upon release, he made the right decisions and the right throws against a very tough Jets defense. He did what he needed to do to win. And I complimented him for it.

But the stats say something different.

 

[venecol]

The story isn't he was overruled, it's that he was talked into it and eventually they convinced him.

Not according to Jakobi.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Not according to Jakobi.

Well, then they talked Bill out of giving him an extra million a year.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Good thing we got rid of those idiots! Right? Right?

Nope, those idiots are still there, maybe they hire someone above them we'll see.

 

[venecol]

Well, then they talked Bill out of giving him an extra million a year.

Lol, yea maybe. Doubtful but maybe.

I still remember the story Revis told about negotiating w/ Bill and it sounded exactly like the way Jakobi described it, except Revis' was more detailed and funnier.

 

[RIpats88]

6 OL picks in the last 2 years on the OL. Other than Kirk, I don't see a single WR in FA that would've been a huge difference maker. And according to an article by Callahan BEFORE the season, JuJu was a call made by the analytics guys, not Belichick.

Zappe looked 100x better behind that OL. Imagine if we could've actually gone out an gotten any other decent QB this past spring.

so your argument is Bill wasn't negligent in filling out the offense he was just incompetent?

either way, Meyers said pn felger and mazz yesterday Bill wouldn't budge and they were $1million apart on guarantees and would've been back if they did. and Bill refused to Budge on Hopkins too offering him a "prove it deal" to play for a .500 team that missed the playoffs...

acting like both could'nt have helped and Bill was helpless do do anything is just pure ball-washing. he easily could've brought both guys in and it would've helped the team.

the eye test says zappe looked better and didn't turtle under the pressure like Mac did and played with more poise. but the stats say he was as bad or mostly worse than Mac jones. I mean dude had a 23.4 rating 59% completion percentage 6tds and 9picks and we are raving about his performance....stats wise Mac was better in every category 64.9%, 10tds, 12picks and a 36.6 rating

 

[RIpats88]

More BS from this upstater guy. Who would know best, Callahan or Meyers who was in the room with Bill?



"They just wouldn't budge," Meyers said. "At the end of the day, he (Belichick) didn't want to move. And I respect it. Like, it's his job to do what's best for his team or what he thinks is best for the team. It just didn't align with what I felt like I was worth."

Now, doesn't this sound like 100% Bill?

Meyers: Pats ‘wouldn't budge' over $1M difference from Raiders' offer

Former Patriots wide receiver Jakobi Meyers explains what went wrong in New England and why he’s enjoying his experience with the Raiders more.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

was the same with Hopkins. Patriots wouldn't budge off of their offer to Hopkins which was HEAVILY incentivized vs. Tennessee which had more guarantees.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-deandre-hopkins-contract-details-incentives-tennessee-titans-reason-update

you cheap out with Receivers and that's what you get. its why we have Juju and Parker. they were cheaper! It's one thing to be cheap when you have Brady as a QB and its a chance for someone like Revis to win a chip. its another when you are a .500 team. its also part of the reason why Bill had to go as a GM

 

[Rob0729]

If someone can’t see with their own eyes that Zappe outplayed Mac with an inferior OL, RB, and receivers then there is no writing that can help them.

Zappe was slightly better. Only slightly. But that was because he didn’t have PTSD and freak out when there was a pass rush that wasn’t blocked. But that isn’t a defense of Mac. It is pointing out how bad Zappe was especially after teams got a book on the guy his last few games.

 

[archstanton543]

Zappe was slightly better. Only slightly. But that was because he didn’t have PTSD and freak out when there was a pass rush that wasn’t blocked. But that isn’t a defense of Mac. It is pointing out how bad Zappe was especially after teams got a book on the guy his last few games.

I mean, the Zappe Pats got shut out. At home. By the Chargers. When the D played out of their minds.

 

[Rob0729]

so your argument is Bill wasn't negligent in filling out the offense he was just incompetent?

either way, Meyers said pn felger and mazz yesterday Bill wouldn't budge and they were $1million apart on guarantees and would've been back if they did. and Bill refused to Budge on Hopkins too offering him a "prove it deal" to play for a .500 team that missed the playoffs...

acting like both could'nt have helped and Bill was helpless do do anything is just pure ball-washing. he easily could've brought both guys in and it would've helped the team.

the eye test says zappe looked better and didn't turtle under the pressure like Mac did and played with more poise. but the stats say he was as bad or mostly worse than Mac jones. I mean dude had a 23.4 rating 59% completion percentage 6tds and 9picks and we are raving about his performance....stats wise Mac was better in every category 64.9%, 10tds, 12picks and a 36.6 rating

That’s the thing with Zappe. People think he was worlds better just because he didn’t freak out under pressure and ignore the fact he couldn’t see the field and had trouble going through his progressions and if his first read or second wasn‘t there he made mistakes. Or that although he moved around the pocket when under pressure he would hold onto the ball too long.

Other than two or three halves in two or three different games, Zappe was awful.